Pastor Matt

Republished July 8, 2010 (first published September 21, 2006) (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org; for instructions about subscribing and unsubscribing or changing addresses, see the information paragraph at the end of the article) -

On Feb. 8, 2003, I visited the largest church in Singapore, City Harvest Church, to OBserve their doctrine and practice, and I am thankful to the three Singaporean friends from independent Baptist churches who accompanied me on my little tour.

On Saturdays, City Harvest has two services, one at 4:30 p.m. and one at 7:30. I attended the 7:30 session. The music was pull-out-the-stops rock & roll and was the loudest I have ever heard in a charismatic church or conference, even though I have attended many of them. The music featured TWO drummers, electric guitars, a keyboard, and a powerful brass section. Several worship leaders, both male and female, swayed and pranced on the front of the stage.

The several-thousand-seat auditorium was almost full and the people were very, very exuberant. As best as I could tell from my vantage point, almost every person joined in enthusiastically during the worship time, singing, clapping, jumping, swaying to the potent music.


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I know that the countries require them to be supported, but the way they approach is often a reproach. They almost sound as if they are holding God hostage, and saying "I won't go until I get enough to live on".

Which missionaries, and what countries are they going to? To properly make a decision we need to know who and where they are going? Statements such as "them" is too broad, we need to narrow it down to properly make an educated decision.

Ok, so I've been begging my dad to let me join a martial arts class. He said I could but, only if I could keep up my grades(ACK) and if I joined the football team this up and comming year. I'm not a huge fan of football but, I really want to take this class. SO, I just wanted to know if there were anything tips or heads up about this sport. I really want to do good because if I don't then these crazy people will hate me even more X / and I wont be able to take the martial arts class. So, any advice?

Yea, run faster than the guy chasing you.

Oh yea, that page is gone. Thanks for letting me know.

I plan of fixing it when I get a chance. As of right now, it will only happen if it is bookmarked without the www but once you start clicking around you will get the www in the url.

Ahhhh, the thread still lives. :clapping:

Look up at the URL bar, does it have the www in front of OnlineBaptist.com? If not it needs to be there for it to work.

Here is the reason why. The board_url that is in the software is using the www prefix and if you open the page without the www the status doesn't work because the ajax request is treated as a possible XSS (Cross-site scripting). Because of that the loading popup stays there for a while and the status does not work.

It that will be fixed in a future version of the software.

Let me know if that is what it is.

You are absolutely correct in that many country's laws do require they have proof of full support and do not allow them to work in country (thus taking the local citizens jOBs).

It's pretty easy to not know this and then judge the missionary's as not "trusting" God. I'd suggest we all as Christians be quicker to get to our knees to pray for missionaries and missionary candidates and slower in judging without all the facts.

I don't worry about my sarcastic humor (which most know is so ridiculous I couldn't possibly be saying it sincerely) scaring the lost from the Savior. I worry about those who say such things and are very sincere and serious about thinking that everything they do is right and more spiritual than others. The sad thing is, they don't see it in themselves and truly believe their drivel. Sometimes one has to say the outrageous to get through some very thick skulls.

And yes, if someone reading is so thick they don't see it, my post was outrageous sarcasm!

Just checking.

I'm really not trying to be a pain here, but I really would like to see Scripture for this point of view so that I can readjust my thinking if it is contrary to the Word of God.
While so things may be a good idea to do, it does not mean that it is wrong if someone does it another way. It just makes it an opinion, and we all have them.

The erroneous statement was so that no one would think I'm advocating what I wasn't there. I didn't want anyone jumping to an erroneous conclusion which I hadn't stated.

As I said in that post, all those things I mentioned that American Christians today call necessities really are not necessities but I also pointed out that doesn't mean they are all bad either.

Indeed, a discussion of this could be profitible. I've known of churches which have had major prOBlems over everything from the use of AC and fans to the color of carpeting!

Some churches seem to deal with these sorts of issues pretty well while for others the church descends into a brawl over them.

I understand. I'm just curious on where the line is drawn. I believe that each pastor of each church must draw the line, and that means the line will be different for each local church.
Also, I tend to agree with you. I'm all for family being together in church, there is a proper way to have S.S. and other programs, and still have the church family orientated.

I'm sure that the Typewriter takes skill, but I think I have a better chance of playing a typewriter in an Orchestra than I do any other instrument.

Since some may want to read too much into this and jump to erronious conclusions, I'm NOT saying all churches should meet in some sort of old style church consisting of a sanctuary with hard wooeden pews, windows for air, two pot belly stoves for heat and maybe a room in the back.

I understand that you may think some of these type of things are erroneous, but the prOBlem is nOBody knows where you are drawing the line. At what point does it become erroneous? All of those things have a part in the Worship, so where is the line drawn? I think a discussion along these lines would be beneficial to OB.

First of all, I realize your comment was somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but, you have a "stage?" Why not a platform and pulpit? Are you entertaining, rather than preaching?

Yes I am glad you realized that was tongue-in-cheek, sometimes it is hard to convey things like that online.
Large churches I preach has a stage otherwise they would never see the preacher. Smaller churches is sometimes just a pulpit on the floor. If I am preaching in a School, they have a stage. Around this part of the country a stage is not entertainment, but rather a raised floor for a speaker to speak.

Second of all, if someone truly "listens to God," he'll tell them to keep the family together and not to separate them! He won't lead someone one way and someone else another! That's confusion and we all know God's not the author of confusion! He never leads contrary to His word!

Before we go any further I need to know where you draw the line. If what you say is all across the board, then every church would be exactly the same with the same programs,same building structure, same color, etc. Where is the line drawn? It is clearly in Scripture that God has different plans for each people. Pastors today is the same way.

I must be doing it all wrong, I never sit with my family during church. I'm thinking about having my family up on the stage with me so that we can be together.

I'm kinda of disappointed in the lack of Scriptural support for the case some are making here. I saw Scripture about training a child and how we worship God is Spirit, but those Scriptures have nothing to do with keeping families together in service. Without Scripture this only becomes a personal conviction. Personal convictions are great as we all have them, but we must remember that they are just personal.

We must realize that different programs are needed for different churches. I've been in inner city churches where you can never do things the way you do things in a country church, and the same is vice-versa. There is no Scriptural support on this area for all churches across the board. This is the reason why this is not specifically mentioned in the Bible, it is up to the local pastor to listen to God to decide how to run that church. Of course I will gladly change my view if Scripture is there to support it.

Republished July 7, 2010 (first published November 23, 2002) (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org; for instructions about subscribing and unsubscribing or changing addresses, see the information paragraph at the end of the article) –

I want to recommend an excellent new book by Dan Lucarini titled “Why I Left the Contemporary Christian Music Movement: Confessions of a Former Worship Leader” (Evangelical Press, 2002, P.O. Box 84, Auburn, MA 01501, sales@evangelicalpress.org).

The author was heavily involved in rock and roll before he was saved; and after his conversion in 1973, he was the leader of contemporary praise teams in two churches. In that capacity he assisted in moving the congregations from traditional to contemporary music. He was an enthusiastic supporter of Contemporary Christian Music and defended it with the standard arguments: music is neutral; music is merely a matter of personal preference; the Bible doesn’t say rock music is evil; it’s the heart that matters not the music; Martin Luther and the Wesleys used contemporary music in their day; rock music is necessary for evangelism; God is using CCM to save and disciple teens; etc.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2LJ1i7222

Updated July 6, 2010 (first published March 6, 2006) (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org; for instructions about subscribing and unsubscribing or changing addresses, see the information paragraph at the end of the article) -

Pentecostals and Charismatics often teach that there are two types of tongues described in the New Testament: the “public language tongues” of Pentecost and the “private prayer” tongues of 1 Corinthians 14:4 -- “He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.” Some call this distinction “ministry tongues” and “devotional tongues.”

Early Pentecostal leaders understood that biblical tongues were real earthly languages. They even thought they would be able to go to foreign mission fields and witness through miraculous tongues without having to learn the languages. Those who attempted this, though, returned bitterly disappointed!

“Alfred G. Garr and his wife went to the Far East with the conviction that they could preach the gospel in 'the Indian and Chinese languages.’ Lucy Farrow went to Africa and returned after seven months during which she was alleged to have preached to the natives in their own 'Kru language.’ The German pastor and analyst Oskar Pfister reported the case of a Pentecostal... ‘Simon,’ who had planned to go to China using tongues for preaching. Numerous other Pentecostal missionaries went abroad believing they had the miraculous ability to speak in the languages of those to whom they were sent. These Pentecostal claims were well known at the time. S.C. Todd of the Bible Missionary Society investigated eighteen Pentecostals who went to Japan, China, and India ‘expecting to preach to the natives in those countries in their own tongue,’ and found that by their own admission ‘in no single instance have [they] been able to do so.’ As these and other missionaries returned in disappointment and failure, Pentecostals were compelled to rethink their original view of speaking in tongues” (ROBert Mapes Anderson, Vision of the Disinherited: The Making of American Pentecostalism).

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July 2, 2010, Volume 11, Issue 27
GRAPHICAL EDITION

The Friday Church News Notes is designed for use in churches and is published by Way of Life Literature’s Fundamental Baptist Information Service. Unless otherwise stated, the Notes are written by David Cloud. Of necessity we quote from a wide variety of sources, but this does not imply an endorsement. For instructions on how to unsubscribe to this list or to change mailing addresses, please consult the information paragraph at the end.

ATHEIST MAYOR OF LEICESTER BANS PRAYER (Friday Church News Notes, July 2, 2010, www.wayoflife.org, fbns@wayoflife.org, 866-295-4143) - Colin Hall, newly elected mayor of Leicester, England, has banned prayers before meetings at Town Hall. Hall, an atheist, calls prayer “outdated, unnecessary and intrusive” (“What’s God Got to Do With It?” Daily Mail, June 23, 2010). Atheism has not destroyed Christianity in England; apostasy has destroyed it. Nothing turns people away from God faster than apostate, hypocritical Christianity, and the Church of England is all of that and more. On a visit to London around Easter 1982 I picked up a newspaper and saw an interview with ROBert Runcie, the Archbishop of Canterbury. When asked, “Why did Jesus die?” his reply was, “As to that I am an agnostic.” (For more documentation of the Church of England’s apostasy see “Fifty Years of Anglican Liberalism” at the Way of Life web site.)

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Welcome to Online Baptist. Thank you for joining and posting as I already have enjoyed reading your posts.

Thank you for the kind words about our community, we try hard to be different than other online communities.

See ya around.

FYI: I would be honored if you add your website to our sister site at IFB1000.

With these kind of actions, it is amazing that anybody would want to be a Christian.

Is this really how we would want others to view being "Christ Like"?

I also use SwordSearcher.

Republished July 1, 2010 (first published July 15, 2008) (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org; for instructions about subscribing and unsubscribing or changing addresses, see the information paragraph at the end of the article) -

For more information about Sue Monk Kidd and contemplative spirituality, we recommend our book on Contemplative Mysticism and our book and DVD set on the Emerging Church. Both are available in our bookstore.

Sue Monk Kidd is a very popular writer. Her first two novels, The Secret Life of Bees (2002) and The Mermaid Chair (2005), have sold more than 6 million copies and the first one is being produced as a movie. She has also written two popular books on contemplative spirituality: God’s Joyful Surprise (1988) and When the Heart Waits (1990).

She is quoted by evangelicals such as David Jeremiah (Life Wide Open), Beth Moore (When Godly People Do Ungodly Things), and Richard Foster (Prayer: Finding the Heart’s True Home). Kidd’s endorsement is printed on the back of Dallas Willard’s book The Spirit of the Disciplines. She wrote the foreword to the 2006 edition of Henri Nouwen’s With Open Hands and the introduction to Thomas Merton’s New Seeds of Contemplation.

It is “contemplative spirituality” that changed Kidd’s life, and her experience is a loud warning about flirting with Catholic mysticism.

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Republished June 30, 2010 (first published by the FBIS in January 12, 1997) (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org; for instructions about subscribing and unsubscribing or changing addresses, see the information paragraph at the end of the article) -

[Note from Brother Cloud: The following is by the late Pastor David Nettleton and was published in the 1960s by the General Association of Regular Baptist Churches (GARBC). The GARBC once practiced biblical separation and gave clear warnings against New Evangelical compromise, and they published many helpful materials such as the following. Sadly, this is no longer true, and many good churches and pastors have left the GARBC in recent decades because of its slide away from Scriptural separation.]

"Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God." Acts 20:26-27

This message, like many, is born out of an experience. It may be some others are going through similar experiences. Therefore, let me recount the one which brought this message to light.

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Great, I'll be praying.