Members heartstrings Posted October 29, 2009 Members Share Posted October 29, 2009 The Old Testament Exhortation Proverbs 3:11 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction: 12For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth. The New Testament Elaboration Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Pretty much ties together doesn't it? We, who are saved, are not God's physical sons; not in the New or Old Testament. But God chastened his own as sons, as Solomon said, in the Old Testament.How to become a Son? John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:Some folks who did this? Men did so, after the birth of Enos Genesis 4:26 David said Christ was his Lord Psalm 110:1 Isaiah prophesied His coming- Isaiah 7,53 Zacharias the priest and Elizabeth were looking for Him Luke 1:6 Luke1:67-70 and New Testament Christians do the same 1 John 3:1,2 Zacharias the priest was righteous and walked in all of the commandments;(Luke 1:6) how could a man possibly do that without Christ? He couldn't. Even though Christ wasn't even born yet, Zacharias had already believed on Christ, and was anticipating His coming. (Luke 1:67-70)Zacharias, also, was chastened as a son, because he didn't believe the angel Gabriel. So if these Old Testament saints, believed on Christ, (and they most certainly did), then they had received Christ in their hearts and believed on His name(John 1)and God certainly dealt with them as sons. Only one conclusion can be drawn; they, too, were "sons of God"(John 1:12), The term "sons of God" refers to the same thing in the Old and New Testaments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry Posted October 29, 2009 Members Share Posted October 29, 2009 Here we go again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted October 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 29, 2009 Here we go again... Forgive me but, the "chastening" passage made me think of it. Sorry if it bothered you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry Posted October 29, 2009 Members Share Posted October 29, 2009 No, I wasn't bothered by it. I just know you have gone down this road before, and wasn't sure why it was happening again - though now you have clarified why. No prOBlem from my end, provided we stick to this aspect of "the sons of God." Ie. I (speaking personally, not as a Mod) am not saying that you should or shouldn't discuss the reoccurring issue of "the sons of God" in every OT passage in the threads already started on these passages - I just don't see any profit in it (I realize from your response that this wasn't what you were doing here). I don't have the heart for another endless debate; though I am certainly up for discussing aspects of God's discipline of those who have been born again through faith in Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted October 29, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 29, 2009 Jerry, "chastening" was not the subject of this post. The intent of this post was summarized in the last sentence:The term "sons of God" refers to the same thing in the Old and New Testaments. The title "every son whom he receiveth" also ties it together. Because God received and chastened "sons" in the Old Testament, as well as the New, as evidenced by Proverbs 3:11 and Hebrews 12:5-7 My ultimate intent goes further than that, and of course you know what that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry Posted October 29, 2009 Members Share Posted October 29, 2009 Well, then we will have to agree to disagree. I believe unfallen angels were referred to as sons of God in several places in the OT (no, not in Genesis 6 though - I believe those are believers there). But why start a new thread to rehash your old conversations/debates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wilchbla Posted November 1, 2009 Members Share Posted November 1, 2009 My question is how could the OT saints believe in Jesus when he was a mystery in the OT and even the prophets tried to search him out in vain? I Corinthian 2:6-8; Romans 16:25,26; Luke 18:31-34; Luke 9:44,45; I Peter 1:10-12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry Posted November 1, 2009 Members Share Posted November 1, 2009 Jesus was not a mystery in the OT. They did not understand all the prophecies about Him or know His name, but since mankind fell, there was the promise of the coming Redeemer. Genesis 3:15, 21. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted November 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 1, 2009 Well, then we will have to agree to disagree. I believe unfallen angels were referred to as sons of God in several places in the OT (no, not in Genesis 6 though - I believe those are believers there). But why start a new thread to rehash your old conversations/debates? Here's one place.......Sons of God...Believers JOB1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Does this verse say "some sons of God came" ? Or does it say the sons of God came? Wasn't JOB, also, one of the sons of God? Did not Satan also come among the disciples in Matthew 16:23?Abraham did the very same thing...... Genesis 18:22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD. Wasn't Abraham , also, standing on planet earth "before the Lord"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry Posted November 1, 2009 Members Share Posted November 1, 2009 Why do you keep riding the same hOBby horse? Do you think it will edify your brethren? There are already various threads that you have posted in to discuss this issue. Why - if you feel you must continue this endless debate - don't you continue posting in the threads already discussing this issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted November 1, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 1, 2009 So, Are you agreeing or disagreeing that JOB 1:6 happened on earth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted November 2, 2009 Members Share Posted November 2, 2009 My question is how could the OT saints believe in Jesus when he was a mystery in the OT and even the prophets tried to search him out in vain? I Corinthian 2:6-8; Romans 16:25,26; Luke 18:31-34; Luke 9:44,45; I Peter 1:10-12. Ge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Madeline Posted November 3, 2009 Members Share Posted November 3, 2009 Here's one place.......Sons of God...Believers JOB1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Does this verse say "some sons of God came" ? Or does it say the sons of God came? Wasn't JOB, also, one of the sons of God? Did not Satan also come among the disciples in Matthew 16:23?Abraham did the very same thing...... Genesis 18:22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD. Wasn't Abraham , also, standing on planet earth "before the Lord"? heartstrings, the presence of Satan in a colloquy with the other "sons of God" makes the argument for these being human beings rather silly. We do not "get together" with the devil or any other angels for that matter for any purpose this side of heaven and the resurrection. These events clearly took place in heaven. What does the devil say to the Lord's question, "Whence comest thou?"? He replies " From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it". This, and our Lord's latter OBservation about JOB that there is none like him in the earth, make no sense whatsoever if we assume that this is all taking place on earth. Finally, if these are "righteous believers" with whom Satan appears before God, why then isn't JOB, the most righteous of all then living, present as well? Love, Madeline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1Timothy115 Posted November 3, 2009 Members Share Posted November 3, 2009 I thought the OT folks were looking for a different kind of redeemer and many times they thought of their future in regard to their offspring (for redemption). Didn't they think the seed of David would be a great warrior who would restore Israel to it's former status among nations? Were they looking for a man in armour not a man clothed in humility? Even the Apostles as disciples struggled with the idea of Christ sacrificing Himself and not restoring the Kingdom of David immediatly. What exactly did the OT Saints have faith in? God, yes. But, how did they understand salvation? Is it possible the OT picture of the future was veiled and not discernable until Christ rent the temple veil from top to bottom? Just thoughts from what I've heard and read from the Bible...not a doctrine I'm promoting...so, don't pop a vein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted November 3, 2009 Members Share Posted November 3, 2009 heartstrings, the presence of Satan in a colloquy with the other "sons of God" makes the argument for these being human beings rather silly. We do not "get together" with the devil or any other angels for that matter for any purpose this side of heaven and the resurrection. These events clearly took place in heaven. What does the devil say to the Lord's question, "Whence comest thou?"? He replies " From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it". This, and our Lord's latter OBservation about JOB that there is none like him in the earth, make no sense whatsoever if we assume that this is all taking place on earth. Finally, if these are "righteous believers" with whom Satan appears before God, why then isn't JOB, the most righteous of all then living, present as well? Love, Madeline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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