Members JerryNumbers Posted September 26, 2009 Members Share Posted September 26, 2009 Getting the gov't out of the pulpit http://www.onenewsnow.com/Church/Default.aspx?id=697604 Why on earth would any church or pastor sign a pact with our government sacrificing proclaiming the whole of God's truth from the pulpit? I forget, some will do almost anything for dollars, even sign away their rights to proclaim God's whole truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trc123 Posted September 27, 2009 Members Share Posted September 27, 2009 This basically says that one week per year a preacher can rail against politicians without fearing their loss of non-profit tax exempt status, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Colin Stolzer Posted September 27, 2009 Members Share Posted September 27, 2009 Because they think they have to have the 501c3 tax exempt status to be a church. Any church that applies to the IRS for a 501c3 status and is granted a non-profit is already choosing to limit what they can preach from the pulpit. The real answer here isn't to break the law that they have voluntarily agreed to, the answer is to give up their 501c3 status and become a real church. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trc123 Posted September 27, 2009 Members Share Posted September 27, 2009 It seems to me that a church (no matter the tax exempt status) can preach anything they'd like but just can not name the names of political entites and candidates if they want to maintain their tax exempt status. Is that correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Colin Stolzer Posted September 27, 2009 Members Share Posted September 27, 2009 It seems to me that a church (no matter the tax exempt status) can preach anything they'd like but just can not name the names of political entites and candidates if they want to maintain their tax exempt status. Is that correct? No a church cannot preach anything they like if they have a 501c3 status. here's the quote of the actual code:(3) Corporations, and any community chest, fund, or foundation, organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literary, or educational purposes, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition (but only if no part of its activities involve the provision of athletic facilities or equipment), or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals, no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual, no substantial part of the activities of which is carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation (except as otherwise provided in subsection (h)), and which does not participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office. Several churches I know of have lost their tax exempt 501c3 status and been prosecuted by the IRS for speaking out about different legislation(mostly abortion issues).So no it's not just about naming certain individual politicians, it also limits other scriptural preaching as well. That's why I said they should just give up their tax exempt status and become a real Church, not break the law they voluntarily agreed to when they sought a 501c3 incorporation. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted September 27, 2009 Members Share Posted September 27, 2009 Indeed, why agree to restrict your ability to preach freely for the sake of money? Why covet 501c3 tax exemption and then complain about the government strings? Worse yet, why willingly restrict your preaching for the sake of money and think nothing about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bzmomo7 Posted September 27, 2009 Members Share Posted September 27, 2009 No a church cannot preach anything they like if they have a 501c3 status. here's the quote of the actual code: Several churches I know of have lost their tax exempt 501c3 status and been prosecuted by the IRS for speaking out about different legislation(mostly abortion issues).So no it's not just about naming certain individual politicians, it also limits other scriptural preaching as well. That's why I said they should just give up their tax exempt status and become a real Church, not break the law they voluntarily agreed to when they sought a 501c3 incorporation. C I didn't realize the restriction was worded so broadly. Sure seems that could be open to a wide interpretation. If a church did not have 501c3 status, would they be free from restrictions then? Or would they "get them" some other way? What would they classify themselves as instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted September 28, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 28, 2009 Some churches & or pastors would sign a pact with the devil himself if it would save them a few $$$'s. If they agree to the provisions of the 501, them by all means they should not break their word. No restrictions to us who do not sign pacts with the government. Of course not to far down the road if we preach God's whole truth it will be proclaimed hate speech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1Timothy115 Posted September 28, 2009 Members Share Posted September 28, 2009 Maybe a look from a different perspective is needed. The tax exempt status keeps further government interference out of the local church and thus provides continuing freedom from the government. Do you want your tithes and offerings going to government taxes or missions and and upkeep of the house of worship? The pastors have your best interests at heart. The law is unconstitutional and needs changed so, write your congressman and senators if you're really incensed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trc123 Posted September 28, 2009 Members Share Posted September 28, 2009 I see merit in both sides of the discussion. I will say I believe a preacher can preach strong against sin and unrighteousness and call sinners to repentance and belief in Christ without violating the intent of the law (which I've always thought was to keep politics out of the pulpit). I.e. It seems to me that a pastor can preach coming judgment and damnation for the abortionists without having to then name the candidate that they think people should vote for, etc. I'm smart enough to know what each candidate says they stand for and how they vote without the pastor telling me who he thinks I should vote for from the pulpit. I also don't care to have the 1st Coven of Satan involved in passing out fliers and knocking on my door to spread the news about their candidate. But, like I said....I can see merit in getting rid of the law and having the law both! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted September 28, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 28, 2009 I need not look at it, I know from my Bible studies its wrong to sign a pact of any type that will muzzle my mouth in any manner. No when you sign this pact with the government it brings the government into that church, it does not keep them out of that church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators OLD fashioned preacher Posted September 28, 2009 Moderators Share Posted September 28, 2009 According to section 501©(3), churches are automatically tax-exempt w/o applying ------- "Churches and religious organizations, like many other charitable organizations, qualify for exemption from federal income tax under IRC section 501©(3) and are generally eligible to receive tax-deductible contributions. To qualify for tax-exempt status, such an organization must meet the following requirements (covered in greater detail throughout this publication): ? the organization must be organized and operated exclusively for religious, educational, scientific, or other charitable purposes, ? net earnings may not inure to the benefit of any private individual or shareholder, ? no substantial part of its activity may be attempting to influence legislation, ? the organization may not intervene in political campaigns, and ? the organization Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators OLD fashioned preacher Posted September 28, 2009 Moderators Share Posted September 28, 2009 don't know why a 'c' in parenthesis posts as a copyright symbol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators OLD fashioned preacher Posted September 28, 2009 Moderators Share Posted September 28, 2009 This is from the IRS glossary on their website. Church. Certain characteristics are generally attributed to churches. These attributes of a church have been developed by the IRS and by court decisions. They include: distinct legal existence; recognized creed and form of worship; definite and distinct ecclesiastical government; formal code of doctrine and discipline; distinct religious history; membership not associated with any other church or denomination; organization of ordained ministers; ordained ministers selected after completing prescribed courses of study; literature of its own; established places of worship; regular congregations; regular religious services; Sunday schools for the religious instruction of the young; schools for the preparation of its ministers. The IRS generally uses a combination of these characteristics, together with other facts and circumstances, to determine whether an organization is considered a church for federal tax purposes. The IRS makes no attempt to evaluate the content of whatever doctrine a particular organization claims is religious, provided the particular beliefs of the organization are truly and sincerely held by those professing them and the practices and rites associated with the organization Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Colin Stolzer Posted September 28, 2009 Members Share Posted September 28, 2009 Now all you need to do is apply that in the real world, or you could just ask Kent Hovind(serving 10 years in prison) or Pastor Greg Dixon(IBT and all assets confiscated by the IRS) how the IRS applies the codes to churches and ministries. And if you need another examples that is more recent you can google the church here in Kansas(Lawrence I think, but not sure) that is currently fighting the IRS, because of the public positions they took on Abortion. And the list goes on.....that may be what the IRS says about churches, but it certainly isn't how they apply the code to them in the real world. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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