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Hey everyone I have a question. Tonight my sister-in-law and I were talking. She asked me some questions about my beliefs, especially the sign gifts. I gave her my take on it, and she disagrees. She does not have Scripture to agree with her but rather personal experience. I was wondering how you all responded to people with personal experience rather than Biblical proof. I am not sure how to approach the matter.

An example of this would be slain in the spirit. She believes this happens because of personal experience. She says she can't describe what it feels like. It sounded like a trance to me. I told her no where in the Bible is slain in the spirit even mentioned. It is not Biblical. Of course she relies on her personal experience anyways. She still wants to discuss this matter. I want some advice on how to approach it. Thanks!

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Me personally, I think your stance on comparing an experience with the scriptures is right on. Sometimes all we can do with a brother or sister in Christ is ask them, "show me in the scriptures where this takes place." I think we have to be firm in love. Many aren't sure what that means but it is possible.

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Speaking of personal experiences:::::::::::::

Who would have a richer personal experience than the Apostle Peter when he was with Jesus on the Mount of Transifguration. He saw the LORD personally glorified and even heard God the Father's voice from Heaven.

However, Peter, himself, says in I Peter 1:19:::::::::::

"We have also a more sure Word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place,until the day dawn, and the Day Star arise in your hearts."

So we see that even though personal experiences can be rich and wonderful they are pale by comparison to God's Pure and Holy Word (the KJV for all English speaking people's).

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You can give the example of Judas. In "personal experience" you would have have said that he was "one of the twelve," and a disciple of Christ! He walked with the other disciples and he sat at the feet of Christ. He was even the treasurer! Wow! Personal experience tells me that he was one great man!

Well... uh.... he turned out to be a devil! So much for personal experience.

Does your friend not believe that many (most) of these experiences are of someone other than the Lord?

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amblivion - when someone has "experienced" something like speaking in tongues or being slain in the spirit, there is really nothing that can be said by humans to dissuade them. There is an ecstasy that comes with those experiences that those who have them cannot (or will not) believe doesn't come from the Lord. This comes from so many religious practices that are feelings based.

My sister experienced something like this - she spoke in tongues. Actually, it was gibberish, and it was a trance (I was there). And afterwards, she was so happy...and she was nice to me for a few days! If you knew our history when we were younger, you would know how absolutely unusual that was. But then the good feeling wore off...

The absolute only thing you can do is teach her scripture (all the while praying for her to see, and for wisdom for yourself). The Bible tells us that the just shall live by faith...not experience or feelings. And the Bible tells us that faith comes by hearing the Word. Mayhap you could get a good book on the charismatic movement (David Cloud has a lot of really good information: http://www.wayoflife.org/database/charismaticheader.html ). Read up on it yourself, and learn what scripture has to say about it. Then, maybe you could ask your sister to have a Bible study with you - and study Corinthians (after you are totally familiar with it) and the church there - they had problems with "experience" (tongues) as well. Be sure, if she wants to talk about her experience, that you ask her (any time she brings it up), in a nice way, where that is found in scripture.

Hope this helps a bit.

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I sued to work with this lady that was a Pentecostal woman preacher (BIG PROBLEM #1!,) and she was trying to explain her tongues, slain in the spirit, dancing in the spirit, etc., ad nauseum. When I took her to the scriptures she declared, "I don't care what the Bible says, I know what I fealt!" There it is. As Happy Christian so aptly put it:

when someone has "experienced" something like speaking in tongues or being slain in the spirit, there is really nothing that can be said by humans to dissuade them. There is an ecstasy that comes with those experiences that those who have them cannot (or will not) believe doesn't come from the Lord. This comes from so many religious practices that are feelings based.


This is a trance like state likened unto Eastern shamanism. Since ecstatic bablling tongues does not find it's origin in scripture, it does not matter what the Bible says.

Tell your sister that the difference between the modern tongues movement and real tongues is that those who hearts were drawn to the Lord heard their own language (tongue.)

Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

The only ones who didn't get the message was the lost religious crowd.

Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Tongues is a gift from God to express the Gospel to those who don't speak the same language.

Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

We do not see this in modern America, perhaps because it is not necessary in this multi-cultural, multi-linguistic, society we live in. However, in the foreign fields there are reports from non-charismatic men of God that they have experienced a "tongues-like" experience. I know of an evangelist who spoke in a prison in South Africa in English. There was a man present who did not speak English, but heard the entire gospel presentation in hin natve tongue. This would be a perfect example of the gift of tongues.
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Well, I am definately praying for her. She told me she was praying for me as well. That I would have a dream, and it would come true. I did point her to 1 Corinthians 13 about the sign gifts being ceased because she mentioned it this morning, asking where in the Bible it mentions the sign gifts ceasing.

She told me the other night she has not read through the Bible. She does not know anything about the Bible really. She said her and my brother are reading through it together,and he is answering questions as they do. She said she will be asking me questions as well.

As for not being able to dissuade them from their experiences, I agree. Only God can do that. I just want to be able to reason with her to my full potential. Are there any threads on here that you all know of that have Biblical reasoning of why the sign gifts have ceased? I want to make sure I didn't miss anything.

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First remember..Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. Experience isn't truth..John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. Direction's ...Psalms 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. Keep with you ...Psalms 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart,that I might not sin against thee. And because... Romans 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scrptures might have hope. Hasn't changed...Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away; but my words shall not pass away. So what...Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. Yet ...Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. Even so...John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Always remember...All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: Knowing this ...II Timothy 2: 15 & 16 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. ............ This is what I try to remember. If it doesn't match up with His Word then I know it's not "the truth" so then it's not for me! Pray this helps you alittle! in Christ His by Grace

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Myself, I wouldn't even get into the sign gifts have/have not ended. This issue isn't really about that. Others (especially PreacherBenn) have already well addressed this so I won't repeat it all, but the fact is that what she (and others) are calling tongues isn't biblical tongues at all.

Also, as many have put forth, any personal experience that does not agree with Scripture is not Scriptural and therefor not from God.

The "personal experience" argument is used to justify all sorts of unbiblical things. People use this to justify women preachers, homosexuality being okay, divorce, adultry, tongues, etc.

This is a serious problem. I lost a couple of friends in the early 90s due to this. They got to the point where they proclaimed that anyone who didn't speak in tongues wasn't really saved. They left our Bible study group and would only attend charismatic church services and watch charismatic preachers on TV. For them, everything revolved around outward signs and the teachings of the likes of Kenneth Hagin.

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