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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         14
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Another Gospel


AVDeaf
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On 7/10/2005 at 8:24 PM, BaptistBibleBeliever said:

Yes, it stands for New World Translation. It is a perverted, corrupted version of the Bible - but I don't understand how you can say that "it" teaches a false gospel. It belongs to those who are in a false cult but it doesn't - on its own - teach anything.

On the other hand, the book of Mormon, is specifically written to teach another gospel.

The NWT contains the KJV of the Bible. It has verses added at the beginning of Genesis, and is used in it support of the teachings of the JW's. Mormons use the Book of Mormon (another Gospel, which is usually clearly stated inside on the title page "Another Gospel of Jesus Christ"), the Doctrines and Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price. Personally, I won't and DON'T consider new translations of the Bible as "another Gospel, because they all still point to Jesus Christ, and can be used to lead people to the Lord. I've known many people who live Godly Christian lives using these translations. I am KJV preferred, but NOT only. This IS NOT another Gospel. I use the KJV in my study, preaching, and witnessing. I use the other translations mainly for 'commentary' purposes. 

From what I learned in Biblel college, "another Gospel' is anything that detracts from the message of Jesus Christ and focuses attention on itself over HIM! 

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On 7/9/2021 at 1:56 AM, BrotherTony said:

 

 

 

From what I learned in Bible college, "another Gospel' is anything that detracts from the message of Jesus Christ and focuses attention on itself over HIM! 

"Another gospel" in the context Paul used it was the Judaizers adding working to salvation and trying to bring believers back under the law. This could apply to the papacy also.

In Corinthians the "other gospel" was that Jesus didn't bodily rise from the dead so that would "not God but a good teacher" scenario you hear in liberal churches.

The LDS church checks both boxes though they have Jesus rising from the dead he is an angel in their teachings.

Also, false gospels can be brought by an angel according to Paul. That would check another box with the Mormons as they have an angel bringing "another gospel" to Joe Smith.

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On 7/12/2021 at 9:36 AM, SureWord said:

"Another gospel" in the context Paul used it was the Judaizers adding working to salvation and trying to bring believers back under the law. This could apply to the papacy also.

In Corinthians the "other gospel" was that Jesus didn't bodily rise from the dead so that would "not God but a good teacher" scenario you hear in liberal churches.

The LDS church checks both boxes though they have Jesus rising from the dead he is an angel in their teachings.

Also, false gospels can be brought by an angel according to Paul. That would check another box with the Mormons as they have an angel bringing "another gospel" to Joe Smith.

Among all the different groups claiming they are Christian it's hard for me to think of any group who teaches and believes a false Gospel more than the Jehovah's witnesses. They burden the rank and file with hours of meetings, door to door ministry, and publications to study for the Sunday meetings. They also  lead the way in denying Jesus bodily resurrection by teaching that his earthly body was "dissolved" in the tomb and was recreated into the "spirit creature"  and Angel Micheal. Ive attended their form of Easter celebration simply called the memorial a few times. During the memorial the bread and glass of wine is passed around but only the 144,000 are supposed to partake. Since those anointed 144,000 have mostly died off the emblems get passed from one person to another and no one partakes. I can not think of any religious observance that I would classify more readily as a "black mass"  than the JW memorial. The millions of people who participate and just pass the bread and wine on are symbolically rejecting Christ and his command to remember him.

I also wanted to respond to where you mentioned that the LDS believe Jesus was resurrected as an angel. I don't believe that is accurate. In LDS theology Jesus is the Jehovah of the Old Testament and God of this Earth, and after his ressurection he resides on plant Kolob in glorified human body ruling with Heavenly Father called Elohim by LDS. Actual Adam was said to be the Archangel Micheal before "Elohim" sent him to earth to populate the world with Eve. I can only assume they believe Adam became Micheal again after his earthly death.

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On 7/14/2021 at 10:40 PM, Disciple.Luke said:

Among all the different groups claiming they are Christian it's hard for me to think of any group who teaches and believes a false Gospel more than the Jehovah's witnesses.

The ecumenical world church stands out vastly more numerous than the jws,  and immensely more dangerous as the ecu world church has power over billions of people.

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1 hour ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

The ecumenical world church stands out vastly more numerous than the jws,  and immensely more dangerous as the ecu world church has power over billions of people.

By ecumenical work church are you referring to mainline protestants?

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6 minutes ago, Disciple.Luke said:

By ecumenical work church are you referring to mainline protestants?

I did an internet search decades ago of ecumenical world church.  There's a lot that publically joined the roman abomination in its quest for worldwide control.

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4 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

I did an internet search decades ago of ecumenical world church.  There's a lot that publically joined the roman abomination in its quest for worldwide control.

I will Google "ecumenical world church" because I'm still not sure what groups you are referring to.

My opinion about the Jehovah's witnesses was based on the false gospel qualifiers that SureWord correctly mentioned in his post.

 

On 7/12/2021 at 9:36 AM, SureWord said:

"Another gospel" in the context Paul used it was the Judaizers adding working to salvation and trying to bring believers back under the law. This could apply to the papacy also.

In Corinthians the "other gospel" was that Jesus didn't bodily rise from the dead so that would "not God but a good teacher" scenario you hear in liberal churches.

The LDS church checks both boxes though they have Jesus rising from the dead he is an angel in their teachings.

Also, false gospels can be brought by an angel according to Paul. That would check another box with the Mormons as they have an angel bringing "another gospel" to Joe Smith.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/14/2021 at 10:40 PM, Disciple.Luke said:

Among all the different groups claiming they are Christian it's hard for me to think of any group who teaches and believes a false Gospel more than the Jehovah's witnesses.

They are strongly disciplined and apparently believe a lot of error,  and avoid the truth as much as possible ,  though they end in destruction. (unless they repent and God Grants them to be saved,  like Bercot reported he was saved when he was just eight years old and his whole family and church were jws.  When they discovered he was saved,  they kicked him out.   He actually believed they all were saved for years, before the revelation from God that they were not saved).

However,  (I haven't checked),  did they slaughter millions of souls like the roman catholic groups did ?

Even the protestants warred and fought and killed "in the name of Christ",  without God directing them (the devil did it).

The jws aren't any more saved if they did not kill others,  but what I noticed was you choice of words "more than" - if as it happens and happened, so many other groups slaughtered millions because of the false Gospel those groups were part of,  would you still think the jws are "more" teaching and believing a false Gospel .

Admittedly,  one by one, or more, as we discover the enormity of the practices and errors and adherence and faith in and to the false Gospel(s), 

each and every time we are more distressed,  full of sorrow and acquainted with grief as our Savior Jesus is,   seeing thousands on our right hand and tens of thousands on our left hand falling,  without hope for their souls ,  billions worldwide beyond our ken.

Edited by jeff_student_of_Jesus
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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

They are strongly disciplined and apparently believe a lot of error,  and avoid the truth as much as possible ,  though they end in destruction.

However,  (I haven't checked),  did they slaughter millions of souls like the roman catholic groups did ?

Even the protestants warred and fought and killed "in the name of Christ",  without God directing them (the devil did it).

The jws aren't any more saved if they did not kill others,  but what I noticed was you choice of words "more than" - if as it happens and happened, so many other groups slaughtered millions because of the false Gospel those groups were part of,  would you still think the jws are "more" teaching and believing a false Gospel .

Admittedly,  one by one, or more, as we discover the enormity of the practices and errors and adherence and faith in and to the false Gospel(s), 

each and every time we are more distressed,  full of sorrow and acquainted with grief as our Savior Jesus is,   seeing thousands on our right hand and tens of thousands on our left hand falling,  without hope for their souls ,  billions worldwide beyond our ken.

The Jehovah's witnesses may not be violent killers but they still have blood on their hands. An unknown amount members and their children have died from rejecting blood transfusions to please the "Watchtower". Who knows how many JWs have committed suicide because their family disfellowshiped them. Also the endless allegations of child abuse and rape keep coming out.

When I said "more than" I was referring to their rejecting the basics of a false gospel by emphasizing endless works on members AND complete denial of the literal bodily resurrection of Christ.

I suppose the "ecumenical world church" could have a just a dangerous false gospel as the JWs but I still have no idea who you are specifically referring to.

Also in that post I was just giving my personal opinion NOT making a definitive claim. I wasn't looking to debate or argue anything. 

Edited by Disciple.Luke
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Note that refusing blood transfusions is not necessarily a sin at all.   

Among pagans/ the world/  it is nothing since they reject the one who died for them - compared to that ,  nothing matters.

As for as suicide,  if they get saved, and immersed in Jesus' Name  they won't commit suicide,  though their family and church will kick them out.  This is true of practially all groups, catholic, protestant and secular.

The endless allegations?    Why specific jws?    The Bible says ALL society is death dealing.  Not just jws.

14 minutes ago, Disciple.Luke said:

I still have no idea who you are specifically referring to.

Specifically?  Why specifically ?   Generally,  every group not in Christ Jesus is a false Gospel - anti-Christ,  "instead of " Christ.

On 7/10/2005 at 2:03 PM, AVDeaf said:

What is another gospel? Read Galatians 1:6-12

 

Galatians 1:6-12

 
King James Version
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you,

let him be accursed.

As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received,

let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

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3 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

  

Note that refusing blood transfusions is not necessarily a sin at all.   

Among pagans/ the world/  it is nothing since they reject the one who died for them - compared to that ,  nothing matters.

As for as suicide,  if they get saved, and immersed in Jesus' Name  they won't commit suicide,  though their family and church will kick them out.  This is true of practially all groups, catholic, protestant and secular.

The endless allegations?    Why specific jws?    The Bible says ALL society is death dealing.  Not just jws.

Specifically?  Why specifically ?   Generally,  every group not in Christ Jesus is a false Gospel - anti-Christ,  "instead of " Christ.

Like I said in my previous post I have no desire to argue or debate over a post where I explained my own opinion and why.

You keep bringing up things that having nothing to do with the comment in my post. I was talking specifically about groups that impose works and deny the bodily resurrection of Christ but claim to be "Christian".

And I asked specifically who were talking about just so I could understand your position better. 

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Just now, Disciple.Luke said:

Like I said in my previous post I have no desire to argue or debate over a post where I explained my own opinion and why.

You keep bringing up things that having nothing to do with the comment in my post. I was talking specifically about groups that impose works and deny the bodily resurrection of Christ but claim to be "Christian".

And I asked specifically who were talking about just so I could understand your position better. 

Good.  It doesn't matter even what your opinion is - it holds no weight.  Same with my opinion too.

Only Scripture.

Even if a group does not deny the resurrection of Jesus,  they could and many are still part of the largest false gospel in the world.  Billions claim to be "Christian",  but never were, and never will be, and they may not find out until judgment day, as the Bible says clearly.

You specifically targetted jws,  which is in fact and in truth a well known false gospel / cult/ deceiving many.

Since so many other groups do likewise,  I was just inquiring if there was a reason why jws were the object of your post so 'emphatically' (if that is the right word).

You are aware,  I thought and still think, that the largest false gospel perpetrators ever is the one started by and with constantine around or alittle after 300 a.d., right ?   Compared to that monster/beast,  nothing is near as dangerous to us today, or to souls for the last 1700 years.

 

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, Disciple.Luke said:

Also in that post I was just giving my personal opinion NOT making a definitive claim. I wasn't looking to debate or argue anything. 

If any posted opinion is wrong, like bbs now for long time,  should it not be stated ?  (so others don't believe it)

I did not post any reply as if to argue with you about anything, nor to debate,  in this thread .

Edited by jeff_student_of_Jesus
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37 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

If any posted opinion is wrong, like bbs now for long time,  should it not be stated ?  (so others don't believe it)

I did not post any reply as if to argue with you about anything, nor to debate,  in this thread .

Every thread on this board is full of people's opinions and in most cases good points can be argued for differing views so there's no point of debating. Unless the person opinion is complete blasphemy and without merit the one person's opinion of another is just that - a personal opinion.

53 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

Good.  It doesn't matter even what your opinion is - it holds no weight.  Same with my opinion too.

Only Scripture.

Even if a group does not deny the resurrection of Jesus,  they could and many are still part of the largest false gospel in the world.  Billions claim to be "Christian",  but never were, and never will be, and they may not find out until judgment day, as the Bible says clearly.

You specifically targetted jws,  which is in fact and in truth a well known false gospel / cult/ deceiving many.

Since so many other groups do likewise,  I was just inquiring if there was a reason why jws were the object of your post so 'emphatically' (if that is the right word).

You are aware,  I thought and still think, that the largest false gospel perpetrators ever is the one started by and with constantine around or alittle after 300 a.d., right ?   Compared to that monster/beast,  nothing is near as dangerous to us today, or to souls for the last 1700 years.

 

I am not a fan of Constitatine either but I know many Christians who believe he was a sincere believer. And I don't disagree that Roman Catholicism has been a disgrace to the name of Christ and Pope Francis still continues down that path.

There are too many false teachings and groups to mention in a single post and I chose to specifically speak on JWs because in the original post that you took issue with I was replying specifically to SureWords post where he mentioned both JWs and LDS. 

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2 hours ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

If any posted opinion is wrong, like bbs now for long time,  should it not be stated ?  (so others don't believe it)

I did not post any reply as if to argue with you about anything, nor to debate,  in this thread .

In several threads I've noticed your posts come across as argumentative, and that's the impression I've got just from interacting with you here. It certainly felt like a debate after you suggested that I am spreading false information that needed to be confronted.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Please consider this key fact friends: Prior to the government approved and organized Roman Catholic "church", following our Lord Jesus Christ was illegal from the governmental perspective. True followers of our Lord were persecuted, hunted, imprisoned and murdered for their true testimony of Jesus Christ for three centuries after our Lord's Ascension. The Roman counterfeit "church" legalized "christianity" according to the governments of the world. Apostatizing the true Gospel and the Scriptural Jesus, distorting the True Words of God into false religions of men. This was Satan's goal with His Mother of harlots and she has performed exceptionally well for him. This is the exact opposite of what our Lord said would happen to His true followers. He has said to us repeatedly that all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. He said of His True church that the governments of the world would hate them just as they hated HIM.

So any organized, "legal" denomination afterwards would be built on sand and lies and would be lead by and primarily made up of false believers or what our Lord refers to repeatedly as "tares". 

Consider for a moment that it was the governments of the world which arrested, tortured and murdered our Lord. Why on earth would anyone imagine that any of the government protected "religions" of the world since then would be True New Testament churches? 

The white rider has introduced Chrislam, the three part abomination our Lord will separate a little later. It is a ecumenical, satanic concoction of false christianity, islam and the synagogue of satan and its headquarters is being established in spiritual sodom. That will be the only government "protected" religion very soon and all commercial "christian" denominations will bow to it and fly it's flag so to speak or be deemed illegal by the governments.

Mother of Harlots

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On 7/17/2021 at 1:37 PM, Disciple.Luke said:

Like I said in my previous post I have no desire to argue or debate over a post where I explained my own opinion and why.

You keep bringing up things that having nothing to do with the comment in my post. I was talking specifically about groups that impose works and deny the bodily resurrection of Christ but claim to be "Christian".

And I asked specifically who were talking about just so I could understand your position better. 

I have asked Jeff several times to be more clear about his rambling statements, and to keep on the specifics. It's truly hard to follow some of his logic at times. But, we don't all communincate the same. 

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🤔 I don't want to make enemies as I am new here, but some of you seem overly down on Catholics. I'm not Catholic, but it seems to me, there are good Catholics & bad Catholics, some know Jesus, some don't know Him all that well or maybe even hardly at all. I feel that in this secular age we need to fight unbelief first. We can squabble about correct doctrine later. Catholics are our allies. For every Biden or Pelosi who claim Catholicism while denying Catholic teaching on abortion, there are Catholics like Stan Swarmy, a Jesuit in India who died this month after the Indian Hindu government accused him of "terrorism" and put him in jail until he got sick. 

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If a Catholic gets saved,  their own church kicks them out.  As Martin Luther and all the other honest Reformers showed,  it is the harlot of Revelation.  It cannot save anyone,  nor should anyone accept it as it is a false gospel, and whoever brings a false gospel is as Jesus Himself says accursed.

It doesn't matter what political or religious or social leaders say or follow or do - if they accept the harlot,  they are deceived. 

For decades false gospel bringers have again and again and again entered forums (including this one as older posts and threads show)  all over the internet to promote the false gospel.   Usually they eventually succeed,  mostly because most sites are run by false teachers and/or just for money,  they don't know the depth or the depravity or the danger (accursedness) of the false gospel bringers,  and they want to be popular and not lose people instead of standing for truth as Jesus says no matter what.  Whatever they may think they gain,  it is not worth that they sold their souls.

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On 7/11/2005 at 2:23 AM, Jerry said:

Even John R. Rice led Catholics to the Lord with their own Catholic Bibles (because they would not even look at or read from a "Protestant" Bible).

Most of them,  from all I heard and learned the last half century,  don't read any Bible.

John R. Rice was able to lead Catholics to the Lord with their own Catholic Bibles because of the Wisdom and Understanding God Blessd Him with to explain Scripture truthfully to them without the errors of Catholic hypocrisy, practice, teachings and doctrines. 

Millions of others have rejected the Catholic 'Jesus' because they saw that it was not taught nor practiced nor lived truthfully by Catholics, being not at all in line with the Bible.  Later,  by God's Grace,  they may have been led to someone who lived truthfully in line with Scripture, knowing the Truth as Revealed by God's Grace,  and as John R. Rice did they could explain truthfully ,  by God's Grace and Wisdom and Knowledge and Revelation of His Word (even as Revealed to a little child) ,

and show the true Jesus instead of the false Catholic 'Jesus' which caused people to sin .

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