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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I'll never forget a group of Hyles guys trying to do a Vacation Bible school at a church I was at, and they were herding these poor bus kids at the baptismal tank like little Jewish holocaust victims, and they were crying for their mommy and wanted to go to the bathroom. I am not kidding.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

[quote="chev1958"]
But shouldn't new converts "know what's going on" at salvation? How much more do they need to know before being baptized? I see man entering into this ...

Mitch
[/quote]

I see what you are saying and agree, but if a person is truly saved they are going to very soon desire to be baptised. Time tells if their conversion was real, and you don't want to push someone to be baptized if they didn't even really mean the sinner's prayer. I think if a person really means it, that it won't take long to be interested in being baptized.

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  • Advanced Member

[quote="Kitagrl"]
I'll never forget a group of Hyles guys trying to do a Vacation Bible school at a church I was at, and they were herding these poor bus kids at the baptismal tank like little Jewish holocaust victims, and they were crying for their mommy and wanted to go to the bathroom. I am not kidding.
[/quote]


I know you are not kidding; I've seen the same thing happen and I've seen the same kids get baptized week after week and many of them were coherced into a "reassurance" and subsequent baptism so our church could boast that we had baptized at least one every Sunday in the past year. I think everyone here will agree that that is totally wrong.

How about the 24 y/o who truly gets born again? Does he need a class or classes?

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I don't think you need a class before getting baptized, I am just saying there is no need to pressure them into doing it the very next week. If they are eager to please God, they will do it as soon as they learn about it, which should be almost right away.

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  • Advanced Member

[quote]
Course when all you care about is the number of dunks you did on a weekend, you don't care if they are truely saved or not.
[/quote]

Sad, but true. One church I know of claimed to have led 288 people to the Lord in one year, but had only 15 baptisms and membership didn't grow a whole lot. :roll:

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I think a bit of a trial period is wise, Easy believism is rampant...and churches subsequently are full of Non christians who are baptized members...and I don't think there is anything wrong with classes....our pastor used to go over the church constitution and doctrines too so they understood. He felt baptism and being added to the church were tied together...I tend to agree....

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

When a person is truly born again, he/she will have a desire to be baptized (believer's baptism by immersion) and I believe that the person being baptized should know what baptism means biblically and why they are getting baptized. Nobody should be coerced into getting baptized as in Kitagirl's post about Hyles' church--which is more interested in "numbers". Baptism is the first step a believer takes in his/her walk with the Lord.

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[quote]
When a person is truly born again, he/she will have a desire to be baptized (believer's baptism by immersion) and I believe that the person being baptized should know what baptism means biblically and why they are getting baptized.
[/quote]

Well, I might as well come right out and admit this: I was baptized [b][i]12 years[/i][/b] after my conversion (I was saved at age 12). It wasn't that I didn't have the [b][i]desire[/i][/b] to be baptized right away, just that no one told me until much later that a believer should be baptized (I was raised in a church -- Evangelical Covenant -- that didn't place great importance on discipleship). Once I discovered the importance of believer's baptism through my own Bible study, I made it known to the pastor of the church I was attending at the time that I wanted to be baptized.

Better late than never, right? :)

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. (Acts 8:35-39)

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38)

How bold, to tell a lost person to get saved, and then get baptized! I don't think there should be a long period of time before a person's salvation and that person's confession of Christ in baptism.

Also, we often say baptism is the first step in obedience. Why should we expect them to be obedient to discipleship classes if they haven't been obedient to baptism? It's a sad thing to me when a new Christian is excited and wants to be baptized and gets turned away.

The thing with false converts is very serious, but it's not an issue with baptism, but rather with methods of Gospel preparation and presentation.

I think we should fix our evangelism and do it like they did in Acts.

Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. (Matthew 3:5-10)

I think the biblical reason to turn away for baptism is when one is lacking repentance.

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:18-20)

It's still part of the great commission.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I agree with Mitch and Samer.

The Bible indicates that when folks were saved, they were then baptized. Nowhere does it stipulate there is to be a waiting period or that the new convert must prove their salvation before being baptized.

True enough, false conversions due to various unbiblical methods and goals, is a problem, but that's separate from the issue of baptism.

When a person is led to Christ, part of that is explaining the importance of baptism, what it means and hopefully the reading of some Scripture which clearly shows folks being baptized immediately following conversion.

I agree that no one should be forced into accepting baptism, but the importance of baptism, and the timing of biblical baptism should be presented to them so they would hopefully desire to be baptised at that time.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Like Michelle, it was a long time after I was born again before I was baptised.

I didn't know or understand the importance of baptism when I was saved.

I was born again in September 1981 and it wasn't until I finally (by the grace of God) was lead to a Baptist pastor that I was baptised in July 1991. So it was nearly 10 years after I was born again before I was baptised.

This is among the many reasons I believe DISCIPLESHIP is so important. Along with the proper presentation of the Gospel, it's so important for us (Christians) to do more than just present the Gospel and "get them saved".

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Thank you Samer,

The only answer is what saith the scriptures, not what we or a deacon thinks is "wise".

I don't care how many at Hyles were herded through like cattle.

There is no such thing in the NT as a Christian that hasn't been baptised. There is not one example of any one delaying baptism for a disciplship class, for more understanding or for more anything.

People that accept the Lord Jesus as Saviour should be baptized asap. We have a baptistry in our church that is always ready to baptize.

When someone walks the aisle to be saved, the person that deals with them will go through the verses on baptism and encourage them to go now and be baptized.

We don't haul off children while they are crying, but we do and have baptised many the same day they made profession of faith.

Did they all stick around our church?

No.

But where did the Bible say that I should baptize only those that are going to "make the grade" and be conformed to the image of the IFB stereotype?

God looks on the heart, man looks at the outward appearance, that's why men won't baptize according to the Biblical norms.

The same hour.

Immeadiately.

What doth hindereth me to be baptized?

A deacon board? A tradition? An opinion? An unwillingness to be labled a "Hylesite"?

Who cares what a deacon board's policy is, or what you or I think, or what Jack Hyles did or his school still does?

I pray the Lord it isn't me that hinders some one to be baptized.

God bless,

Calvary

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  • Advanced Member

Why should we expect them to be obedient to discipleship classes if they haven't been obedient to baptism? It's a sad thing to me when a new Christian is excited and wants to be baptized and gets turned away.


I was on this end of the scale. Some pastors are so scared to baptize people that are not truly saved, that they put their own 'laws' into it. I was not allowed to get baptised till 13(pastors rule). Do I think that was wrong, Yes. It is also wrong for a grown person who has been going to church for a few weeks, knows what salvation and baptism mean and they get saved to make them wait till a descipleship class is done before baptizing them. Do I think they should be baptized the day they are saved, maybe for some, but many times not.

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Actually, as a believer in Jesus Christ we have already been baptized - with the Holy Spirit (Rom.8:9-11)...which would lead one to also be baptized in water. The baptism of the Spirit is the baptism that the greatest water-baptizer prophesied, for although John baptized with water, Jesus was prophesied by John to "baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire" (Matt.3:11). And Jesus has baptized us with the Spirit according to His promise to the apostles just prior to His ascension (Acts 1:8; cf. Acts 2). Since we have the important baptism, the baptism of power and reality wherein God the Holy Spirit lives in us, it begs the question of what point there may now be to being water baptized. And as any genuine believer should and would do is to be obedient to the ordinance set out in scripture and to be baptized with water whenever the chance is available (Acts 2:41; 8:12; 16:30-33; 18:8). We must also understand that the extent that a person is "guilted into it" or actually believes it has something to do with salvation or spirituality (.....an answer of a "good conscience" toward God...1 Pet. 3:21), the negative spiritual consequences will be there - it's just a matter of degrees.

Love,
Madeline

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

A person, of any age, must be able to understand salvation before they can be saved. If and when they are old enough to understand salvation and they accept Christ, being biblically born again, they are also old enough (capable) of understanding the concept of being baptised upon their being born again.

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One ofthe problems in many Baptist Churchs is "Easy Believism" We need to remember that salvation is of the Lord. We must be sensitive to the leadership of the Holy Spirit. We must let God work. We are the messenger and the Lord is the one who saves.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

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I would guess that it's when the person is ready.

Acts 8:36 -And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
vs.37- And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
vs.38 -And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

It seems though that most new believers would want to be baptized as soon as possible unless they are very shy and fear audiences.

Wil

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  • Advanced Member
Should a person be baptized?


I know pastors who want to baptize immediately and others who want the new Christian to "know what is going on". Which one are you?


I know shortly after I got saved the Holy Ghost was the one who dealt with me about being baptized and joining the NT church here. My pastor never came to me. I came to him and he said I needed to present myself to the congregation for them to approve of whether they would authorize baptizing me or not. I gave my testimony to them and presented myself for membership and then they voted based on my testimony.

The only part my pastor had in the matter was the actual baptizing itself.

I really didn't understand much except that my sins had been forgiven and that my next step, according to the direction of the Holy Ghost, was to be baptized and serve within that church in whatever way he deemed pleasing to him. The understanding came several years after the act of faith.
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      John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
      I am... Brother Ramsey
       
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