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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         14
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

HOW OLD IS THE EARTH?


John81
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Oh lighten up, I have been at EVC, Topix, bible wheel, etc etc etc... and evolutionists run and hide, from ever answering questions. I thought this was a debate board for and against evolution, and wanted to disproof evolution, as I always do

 

SEE http://creationismdefeatsevolution.webstarts.com/

 

The web links to those evolution/creation boards are thereIN. For therein I must have posted over two thousand posts against evolution and evolutionists postings. SEE for yourselves.

As I am a creationist, I dont post subjectively but objectively.  Me trying to discredit John or Bill or whoever you are talking about, I know not. The thread was about creation versus evolution and I went into detail as can be seen in posting the four questions of the author whoever he was.... I didnt look. Do note and recheck my posts HEREIN for the long posting I gave against the four points made by the author.

Please enough of this witch hunt, and trying to find fault as an excuse.

 

Or maybe I will have to repost it for you, to show that I posted objectively against the author of the writings that were the topic of this thread

 

Here it tis..

 

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  • Davidjayjordan
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John...you stated in a rather long posting

 

With some trepidation, I toss my two cents into the fire. Here are the questions I will raise and attempt to answer:

(1) Is the real age of a material thing, if it was created supernaturally, what it appears to be? As we will see, the Bible answers this question.
(2) Is it possible to determine the age of any physical thing without first determining whether it was created in time or in eternity?
(3) Were the days of creation, which are described in the first chapter of Genesis, twenty-four hours long, or could they have been much longer?
(4) Is it possible to be truly scientific, if you reject the fact that the earth and its creatures were supernaturally created by God ?ex nihilo? or out of nothing?

So lets have a go at your questions...

 

First, as a scientist, I would have to say the age of the Earth can definitely be 6,000 years ol, as Yes, as a long time missionary, the geneologies show that it is just over 6000 years old including Jacobs Trouble (with Laban) of 21 years)

(1) Is the real age of a material thing, if it was created supernaturally, what it appears to be? As we will see, the Bible answers this question.

 

Id rather you not use the word supernatural, as evolutionists use it in their supernatural theory that violates all the laws that were created in the Beginning. Evolutionists believe in magic and their supernatural theory that violates all the rules and LAWS of Biology and PHYSICS including the Second Law of THERMODYNAMICS. Evolutionists use the word 'natural' as a cop out as if evolution and beneficial mutations are natural. Its word games as that is all they have for proofs, that and intimidation as if science was created by evolution. NO SCIENCE is LAWS is and were created at GENESIS

Age can not be proven, beyond a few thousand years, thats a given. Even radioactive decay is limited with parameters constants that demand no change in the past, which is untrue...And yet Evolutionists deal with billions of years and toss it around and change it at will with their ever changing theories and billion million year approximations. none of which can be proven. They say a fossil is, lets say a billion years old because it is in a layer that is a billion years old. The geologists turn around and say the layer is a billion years old because the evolutionists say the fossils then were a billion years old
 

(2) Is it possible to determine the age of any physical thing without first determining whether it was created in time or in eternity?

In time, means after time was created... time was created by the Lord via light speed.... as it is the barrier between the ETERNAL NOW and the direction of TIME (Entrophy) Evolution contradicts and violates the 2nd Law of THERMODYNAMICS. Creation or the Creator created time, and its by design and corelates to distance, and speeds, as the equation states distance=time x speed. SEE sacred geometry as all speeds, distances, and ytimes are related and are ot separate entities. All things were created to be in harmony and balance. Hyperlinks later if need be for explanation.

 

(3) Were the days of creation, which are described in the first chapter of Genesis, twenty-four hours long, or could they have been much longer?

Remember Light was the first creation, and of course the parameters of Light meaning light speed which puts us in TIME. The Sun and Moon were created which cycles and revolutions gave us the seasons and the solar year, etc... as well as our Earth;s rotation of 24 hours. Yes, the days are exact and are 24 hours... Besides between the arrival of the Suns light for created plants, there obviously were only 24 hours, as they couldnt wait a billion years for the Suns created light to shine on us. SEE Link to Tabernacle of the Sun for its designed distances etc..

 

(4) Is it possible to be truly scientific, if you reject the fact that the earth and its creatures were supernaturally created by God ?ex nihilo? or out of nothing?

To be scientific one has to study the laws of science and proven facts and principles and observations etc etc.... theories are only theories especially when they are unprove-able and untestable as with the unscieitnfic theory of evolution. And your word 'out of nothing' doesnt apply logically to a Creator of everything, because God> Science as He created Science.

Laws are not greater than the one who created all of them (String Theory, TOE etc..) God>Science>all matter

 

In other words, God id MORE than all that He Created... For even if all Creation was destroyed, It would not dimminish His POWER, as He would simply just reCREATE over again... nothing deletes or depletes His POWER as He is all powerful and what He makes is not out of nothing, but from EVERYTHING..

Evolutionists create theories out of nothingness and from simply LUCK and CHANCE. Nothing the Creator has created ever is nothing but is part of the whole Creation as a WHOLE and as a PLAN. The Lord does not go by LUCK and CHANCE but by DESIGN and INTELLIGENCE

 

IHSS (In His Scientific Service

 

David

 

End of past posting I made to objectively challenge the evolution authors posting.... I by error thinking it was John... as it seems Johnwas just the poster of an evolutionists post. Hardly me trying to intentionally degrade John... I have no idea who he was or if he had left. trying to falsely accuse me of defaming John  is rather aggressive...

 

Just ask if you have a question... rather than accuse..

 

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This is a simple matter of respect.

You made a mistake, and it was pointed out to you.

Instead of saying something like "Oh my mistake. I missed that, but the answers are still relevant." which would have been the respectful thing, you instead attacked those who pointed out your mistake.

Now, because I have pointed out your disrespect, you tell me to "Lighten up".

If you want to be treated with respect, then you should probably not be disrespectful to other board members.

 

I have no issue with what you posted about the topic - I actually haven't really read it, because it is an old thread that died a while back, and I am fully confirmed on my stance of evolution/creation.

I was simply addressing the disrespect shown to a member here, and the continuing disrespect shown to two moderators here.

I am happy to leave this right where it is from now on, but please, try to conduct yourself with common decency and good manners.

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Always have always will.. I had no idea, that there were only creationists HERE. I came HERE because I googled a prophecy web discussion board, and noticed my expertise field of creationism, design and science against evolution insanity. So I posted in detail against the author of the article posted, I had no idea that the author was not available and it was just a creationist who posted the article of an evolutionist. I wanted a discussion and stated that most evolutionists run and never stand and stay and answer questions. I agree with that statement and my comment that, evolutionists run from answering questions.

 

I usually say lets get on with the discussion, but as I mentioned, there are no evolutionists HERE to debate, or question.. They are runners.

 

But if you post what you think was offensive, do post it...

 

Allow me to repost, my apparently very offensive posting, that everyone is so upset by..... I found it, Here it is...

Yea tis true as evolutionists almost always run when faced with any kind of scientific opposition...or any questions.

Yup I agree with that as most evolutionists do run from questions, as they have no answers.

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I don't understand why "Christian" evolutionists go OUT OF THEIR WAY to disprove the plain text of scripture that even a child can understand (e.g., "number of creation days" -- literal or not?) This issue is only because certain groups have made it what I call a "hobby-horse issue", that is, something not related to our spiritual growth usually which is invested with tons of "research" and reams of paper to "prove" that everyone else is "wrong". These sorts of things don't even pass the "sniff test", however -- not with any Christian who is growing spiritually and has some spiritual common sense.  The fact that someone is making such a big deal out of proving something a such is generally thought to be the case is a give away that the person is not really that interested in the truth of scripture. 

God Bless!

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On 2/20/2009 at 5:24 PM, John81 said:

Biblical evidence for the claim that the earth is only six thousands years old is hardly conclusive.

I hope no one reads the thread ,  not much anyway.   

With a false start like this from the opening post indicated,  nothing good has resulted,  only much wasted forum space and time reading if someone reads it.  

However, God Willing ,  there actually may be one good thing after all - the poster who may have posted clearly and Biblically the truth near the end/last page of the thread.   I started there, not at the first post or page,  as a result of a search for "thousand post" leading there.    Thankfully, for seeing that true post (still subject to verification if ever to be used) , or I might have just ignored the thread/topic since that's what I normally do when a thread starts with a false premise.

I will sometimes then , more or less frequently,  just post a reply that I read up to that point,  then stopped,  since proceeding with a false premise is not beneficial to anyone as far as I am aware.

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There are fossils of sea creatures in the rocks on some of the highest mountains, but the mountains were created within DAYS. Dinosaurs once roamed the earth, and now they're gone. I haven't figured that out, you haven't either, and we likely never will.

Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Proverbs 3:5

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What is there to figure out ?  

Nothing contradicts God's Word except what men come up with opposed to Him.

Men who trust the world like bb's posts daily reveal,  live daily in much continuing error.

===============================================

Little children who trust our Father in heaven learn from Him and Delight in Him Daily, and in His Word.

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On 8/30/2021 at 12:23 PM, Bouncing Bill said:

The earth is very old.

The Bible is not meant and never was meant to be a science book.

6000 years is, indeed, very old. And yes, genesis is clearly written as to be taken literally. No room or evidence for a gap nor theistic evolution.

Someone mentioned egocentrism in an earlier post, and here is an interesting thought: How do we know that earth ISN'T the center of the universe? Seriously, we don't have the technology to see the ends of the universe from any direction, so how do we know God didn't place Earth directly in the center? I'm not saying it IS, just saying, there's no conceivable proof to say either way.

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6 minutes ago, Ukulelemike said:

6000 years is, indeed, very old. And yes, genesis is clearly written as to be taken literally. No room or evidence for a gap nor theistic evolution.

Someone mentioned egocentrism in an earlier post, and here is an interesting thought: How do we know that earth ISN'T the center of the universe? Seriously, we don't have the technology to see the ends of the universe from any direction, so how do we know God didn't place Earth directly in the center? I'm not saying it IS, just saying, there's no conceivable proof to say either way.

Actually the earth is much older than 6000 years. And, you do realize that there are two creations stories in Genesis.

How do we know we are not the center. We know because we know the shape of our universe and we are not in the center, but out in one of the arms. 

https://www.encyclopedia.com/science/science-magazines/historic-dispute-earth-center-universe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_center_of_the_Universe#Milky_Way's_galactic_center_as_center_of_the_Universe

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On 8/30/2021 at 3:23 PM, Bouncing Bill said:

The Bible is not meant and never was meant to be a science book.

And yet when it does makes scientific statements it is always completely true and accurate and are meant to be accepted by believers as such even when we may not completely understand how it can be reconciled with current secular theories. We must remember as believers, the bible is written with the Spiritual as a distinct and tangible reality. Secular science however must by design start its observation on the lower material realm. 

God starts with all knowledge of both Material and Spiritual but man's knowledge without God's help can only start in that material observations that are often inconsistent and have to be rethought when new and ever complex concepts are discovered. Its foolish to try to redefine what scripter means by the meagerly and inept theories when the Devine has clearly explained to us.

“For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance, he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.” ~ Robert Jastrow, "God and the Astronomers"

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29 minutes ago, Bouncing Bill said:

And, you do realize that there are two creations stories in Genesis.

There is only one of Creation. The second is is specifically of the Garden of Eden, not all of creation. God gave the broad picture in chapter 1 and then narrowed down in chapter 2 to what happened in that specific location.

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13 minutes ago, John Young said:

There is only one of Creation. The second is is specifically of the Garden of Eden, not all of creation. God gave the broad picture in chapter 1 and then narrowed down in chapter 2 to what happened in that specific location.

Yes, but the second describes the creation of Adam and Eve. 

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14 minutes ago, John Young said:

There is only one of Creation. The second is is specifically of the Garden of Eden, not all of creation. God gave the broad picture in chapter 1 and then narrowed down in chapter 2 to what happened in that specific location.

Well, the Bible talks about the 4 corners of the earth. There are no corners. 

Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses No. 3 and 5,…‘Light was created on the first day.’ Genesis, Ch., 1 Verses, 14 to 19… ‘The cause of light - stars and the sun, etc. was created on the fourth day’.  How can the cause of light be created on the 4th day - later than the light which came into existence on the first day? 

King James talks about a unicorn. There has never been a unicorn. 

No, the Bible was never intended to science book. 

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2 minutes ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Yes, but the second describes the creation of Adam and Eve. 

The Adam and Eve of Gen 2 are the same and first Man and Woman of Genesis 1.

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49 minutes ago, Bouncing Bill said:

The order of creation is reversed however.

That's the order of things brought to the garden of Eden and not the order of created things in the  greater world or the universe. Genesis 1 God makes the universe. Genesis 2 the LORD God makes a garden within that same universe with the same first beings and then brings it all there to make the garden. They were not created at that moment but rather brought there.

Edited by John Young
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13 minutes ago, John Young said:

That's the order of things brought to the garden of Eden and not the order of created things in the  greater world or the universe. Genesis 1 God makes the universe. Genesis 2 the LORD God makes a garden within that same universe with the same first beings and then brings it all there to make the garden. They were not created at that moment but rather brought there.

That is not what Genesis 2:4 states.

"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heavens and earth."

Note: This verse suggests that God created the heavens and earth in one day. 

Also, note that the verse states nothing about a garden. That comes later.

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9 minutes ago, Bouncing Bill said:

That is not what Genesis 2:4 states.

Gen2:1-7 are concluding and transitioning verses from creation of the world as the subject to man and the garden being the subject.

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58 minutes ago, John Young said:

Gen2:1-7 are concluding and transitioning verses from creation of the world as the subject to man and the garden being the subject.

 

58 minutes ago, John Young said:

Gen2:1-7 are concluding and transitioning verses from creation of the world as the subject to man and the garden being the subject.

I agree. But that does not negate what I said. There are two creation stories and they are different.  But that has nothing to do with the age of the earth. And, as I said, the Bible was never meant to be a science book. 

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