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Eternal Security


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There are wolves in sheeps' clothing that sneak into the flock and gradually turn them away - turn them from the truth to error, including the error of being a Willow Creek church. We have seen that happen in some churches in my city. The new pastor that took over a church preached exactly like the old pastor, until he told a hold of the ruling board in the church, then he got rid of those who wouldn't follow along, and made the church another one of these seeker sensitive churches. This happened in 2 or 3 churches in Kelowna where I live. The older folks didn't see it coming - until they were left without a sound church.

Though to be blunt, those older folk had been to busy being ecumenical and wishy washy - and it is their fault they didn't see the junk that was slowly creeping in! It is too easy to accept anything as Christianity as long as it has that label - and the slide is slow, but eventually they cry out when it goes too far. They should have cried out and woken up when the slide first started - when the pastor made his first departure!


So is this a form of "bewitchment" as spoken of in the Bible?


bewitch
One entry found for bewitch.

Main Entry: be·witch
Pronunciation: bi-'wich, bE-
Function: verb
transitive verb
1 a : to influence or affect especially injuriously by witchcraft b : to cast a spell over
2 : to attract as if by the power of witchcraft : ENCHANT, FASCINATE
intransitive verb : to bewitch someone or something
- be·witch·ery /-'wi-ch(&-)rE/ noun
- be·witch·ing·ly /-'wi-chi[ng]-lE/ adverb
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Seems like every thread lately is getting turned into "purpose driven/anti-purpose driven".... I'm against "purpose driven" but I guess I don't make it my hobby horse. The topic of the thread is eternal security. A saved person bears fruit. If a person claims to be saved and does not have evidence of salvation there is a good chance the person was never saved. However only that person and God can know that for sure.

If the tv evangelists are truly saved, then God will chasten them as a child. If not, then they are probably not children of his. Unless there are some who are actually reaching people for Christ...sometimes I think God allows a measure of "wrong" in order to still get His gospel out. Paul even said that he was happy that even though some were spreading the gospel out of envy and strife, yet they were still spreading the gospel and he would rejoice over it.

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Paul even said that he was happy that even though some were spreading the gospel out of envy and strife, yet they were still spreading the gospel and he would rejoice over it.


What Paul rejoiced in was the fact the Gospel/Christ was still being preacher, regardless of the preachers' motives - however, that is an entirely different matter than false doctrines being preached or compromise being promoted.

Philippians 1:15-18 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
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What Paul rejoiced in was the fact the Gospel/Christ was still being preacher, regardless of the preachers' motives - however, that is an entirely different matter than false doctrines being preached or compromise being promoted.

Philippians 1:15-18 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.


I wasn't referring to false doctrine.
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I know you are not for error - however, many that claim to preach Christ are not preaching the truth about Christ and how to be saved; therefore it is not the same thing Paul was referring to.

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Seems like every thread lately is getting turned into "purpose driven/anti-purpose driven".... I'm against "purpose driven" but I guess I don't make it my hobby horse.


Do you have any friends or loved ones caught up in the purpose driven movement? I if did not, then I guess it would be a "hobby horse," but since I do - I have a real genuine concern regarding this issue.

I am vehemently opposed to the purpose driven movement, not because I disagree with their methods, but because I actually am concerned about whether or not their names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life. If their names are there, why would I worry about what else they might do? Who cares if they do things differently? What concerns me is that they present the gospel in such a way that one never gets to the core issues of sin and salvation, of repentance and restoration. That is what upsets me. To know that they may be beguiled into a false sense of security...


BEWITCH'MENT, n. Fascination; power of charming.
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Well my husband is the pastor of a small church...why is it small? Probably partly because we aren't as exciting as the "purpose driven" type churches. But that's okay. I do think the movement sends people into a false, emotional sense of security.

Jerry I was referring to people like Billy Graham who at one time was leading folks to the Lord but now has strayed and gone neo.... there are some preachers out there who I think are saved...but many are just in it for the money and are probably not.

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Jerry I was referring to people like Billy Graham who at one time was leading folks to the Lord but now has strayed and gone neo.... there are some preachers out there who I think are saved...but many are just in it for the money and are probably not.


Not only for the money but also the numbers. the ecumenical movement is very deceptive.
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Not only for the money but also the numbers. the ecumenical movement is very deceptive.


A "faker" may pick up the right terminology, the right actions, the right attitude but not understand the gospel. But If we're trying to tell if a professing Christian actually isn't one? then, again, we can never be absolutely sure, but measuring their actions against God's word may indicate the falsity of some people's claims. For example, just as someone in a nun's outfit caught worshipping Buddha is someone to question the authenticity of their professed faith; similarly a "Christian in ordinary clothes" who never seems sorry for sins, who gives lip service to God but no actions, who displays none of the fruit of the Spirit MAY indicate someone who is more in doubt than others. But this is the interesting one - God may have saved them. They may have been the worst person in the world, saved through Christ and gradually getting better - and you've just met them not realizing what an improved person they are! It comes down to again, God knows the secrets of mens hearts - not us. (Psalm 44:21).

Love,
Madeline
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:foot: Well, I can't find the embarassed smilie, but this will do. Sorry, for going off topic - I was just responding to a few things posted...

:ooops Ah, found it now.

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