Jump to content
Online Baptist

Bring your guns to church


PastorMatt

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 221
  • Created
  • Last Reply
  • Advanced Member

I just heard this pastor (Ken Pagano) interviewed on CNN. He was a very well reasoned and spoken advocate for our 2nd Amendment rights and did not come across as a kook at all. He gave a very logical, balanced and spiritual accounting for the gathering (on Saturday; not Sunday by the way). I thought he was a great witness for Christ actually weaving in the fact that Jesus wouldn't carry a weapon when he first came because it wasn't appropriate as his mission was to go to the cross to die their for all our sins; but that Jesus would come again to establish his kingdom and he would be using force at that time!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I just heard this pastor (Ken Pagano) interviewed on CNN. He was a very well reasoned and spoken advocate for our 2nd Amendment rights and did not come across as a kook at all. He gave a very logical, balanced and spiritual accounting for the gathering (on Saturday; not Sunday by the way). I thought he was a great witness for Christ actually weaving in the fact that Jesus wouldn't carry a weapon when he first came because it wasn't appropriate as his mission was to go to the cross to die their for all our sins; but that Jesus would come again to establish his kingdom and he would be using force at that time!


In the Fox News interview I saw he was well spoken but he was more passionate and direct with 2nd amendment comments than anything Scriptural. He also hurt his argument by claiming it's great for folks to carry their guns and how folks are responsible but he wouldn't allow them to bring bullets with their guns on the bring your guns to church day.

All in all, this was not a positive stunt for the advancement of God's kingdom. Just as liberals turn the church away from their primary purpose towards their own agendas, so some more conservative churches do the same as they advocate some conservative agenda.

Much better if the church had held a "bring a friend to church" event, or even "bring a liberal to church" event. The the pastor could have presented the Gospel to many lost souls and the congregation could have shown their love and care for those that attended the event.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member



In the Fox News interview I saw he was well spoken but he was more passionate and direct with 2nd amendment comments than anything Scriptural. He also hurt his argument by claiming it's great for folks to carry their guns and how folks are responsible but he wouldn't allow them to bring bullets with their guns on the bring your guns to church day.

All in all, this was not a positive stunt for the advancement of God's kingdom. Just as liberals turn the church away from their primary purpose towards their own agendas, so some more conservative churches do the same as they advocate some conservative agenda.

Much better if the church had held a "bring a friend to church" event, or even "bring a liberal to church" event. The the pastor could have presented the Gospel to many lost souls and the congregation could have shown their love and care for those that attended the event.


In his CNN interview he readily stated that not all gun owners are properly educated or observe the laws or safety standards and he stated it is similar to those who own and use cars that are not properly equipped or responsible in the use of a motor vehicle....
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist


In his CNN interview he readily stated that not all gun owners are properly educated or observe the laws or safety standards and he stated it is similar to those who own and use cars that are not properly equipped or responsible in the use of a motor vehicle....


He didn't mention all that on Fox. He gave the impression his congregation were safe and reliable gun carryers but he wouldn't let them bring bullets with their guns to his bring your guns to church event.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member



He didn't mention all that on Fox. He gave the impression his congregation were safe and reliable gun carryers but he wouldn't let them bring bullets with their guns to his bring your guns to church event.


Understood, on today's CNN interview he talked about some coming he didn't know, others he did, some had "hot" weapons in the open, others had "hot" weapons concealed.

He happens to be a certified shooting instructor and competitively shoots. During the interview they discussed the historical aspects of firearms in the early American churches. Some banned them and they had to be left outside the door, others required you bring them to church and actually had gun racks in the church. Remember, they were frontiersman that were protecting their families from wild critters and natives; they were also at war with different entities (French, British, etc....) and used them for self-defense. While our culture is not used to it, there is historical support for having them.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Historical support and biblical support differ.


John, I'm confused.......please explain to me, why bibical support is not history in itself? The entire Bible is nothing but historical facts (with the exception of the forthcoming events, such as the rapture of the church and the coming of Christ...and they WILL come to pass). Just wanting to here your views. Thanks.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist



John, I'm confused.......please explain to me, why bibical support is not history in itself? The entire Bible is nothing but historical facts (with the exception of the forthcoming events, such as the rapture of the church and the coming of Christ...and they WILL come to pass). Just wanting to here your views. Thanks.


I should have been more clear. The Bible gives examples of Christians being persecuted, tells of their reactions and of their gatherings but there is no record of Christians taking weapons to their church services.

While there are historical examples of some American Christians taking weapons with them to church, there are not examples in the NT of Christians taking weapons with them to church.

The biblical record of how NT Christians dealt with persecution differ greatly from much of the historical American perspective on such.
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Hey trc123

I have to shoot the standard Police Academy qualification course which is 15 yards in which you fire 25 rounds in a series of different configurations such as double taps, single handed fire, and fire from the waist at 3 feet away from the target. We use Human siluette targets and have to hit in the kill zone, about a 12 inch by 16 inch zone. It is a very simple course for anyone with shooting expirience.

When I started in Law Enforcment in 1991, the course was 50 rounds and started at 25 yards away from the target. I liked that one much better. I shoot the 25 yard target for practice, which makes the 15 yard target cake.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Lady Administrators



I should have been more clear. The Bible gives examples of Christians being persecuted, tells of their reactions and of their gatherings but there is no record of Christians taking weapons to their church services.

While there are historical examples of some American Christians taking weapons with them to church, there are not examples in the NT of Christians taking weapons with them to church.

The biblical record of how NT Christians dealt with persecution differ greatly from much of the historical American perspective on such.


John, there's no NT record of a lot of things we do now...even, say, meeting in a church building...the early church met in homes. Are we sinning because we don't?
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I should have been more clear. The Bible gives examples of Christians being persecuted, tells of their reactions and of their gatherings but there is no record of Christians taking weapons to their church services.


Christ said in Luke 22:36: Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

That sounds like arming the NT church to me......

Another point, the Christian life is just that... the Christian life. If I carry throughout the week why would it be different when I go to church. Don't we teach that a Christian is a Christian seven days a week?
Link to post
Share on other sites

The NT records Christians meeting together (church) and also records some of the persecution they faced and their response to such persecution.


John, here's one KJV Bible fact that you can't deny that happened. When the house of God was misused (by the money changers), Jesus Christ himself used "force" to get them out. When someone comes into the church, with intentions other than to worship, I think we have the right to move them. I know that we're not Jesus, but anyone that comes against the men of God, (our preachers)....our families, during the worship of our Saviour, I think they should be moved, even if it takes a .45 caliber to do it. There are times when force is needed, even in the Church. I do respect your stand on this issue, and if you choose to die a matyrs death in the name of Jesus Christ, I commend your courage. I'm not afraid to die either, but I sure want to protect my family (including my church family) from those who come against them (especially those who come against the name of Jesus), whether it be in the church or outside it. As stated in an earlier posting on this thread, the Bible states that those who do not provide for their families is worse than an infidel. Providence includes protection, do agree, or not?
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Providing for and protecting a family are two separate things. There are also more ways to protect ones family than by taking guns to church.

I've never said I wouldn't fight against someone attacking our church.

I'm actually a man of action and my first impulse would be to strike back as hard, as fast and with as much finality as possible. Years ago, such would have been my virtually instinctual reaction. Now I can see my own limitations much more clearly; I can see what the Word says about so many things I didn't get back then; I'm so much closer to the Lord now than then; and I've seen the Lord move in my life in some situations to hold back and allow God to do His work.

I hope that if ever faced with a situation I would be in tune enough with the Spirit to know whether the Lord would have me take action or to be still and know that He is God.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 56 Guests (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online


  • Tell a friend

    Love Online Baptist? Tell a friend!
  • Members

  • Recent Status Updates

    • Alan

      Happy Birthday John Young! God Bless! 🍰
      · 1 reply
    • KJV ME!

      Now it is time for me to step out of my shell and let go... I AM STRICT KJV!... In scripture God said he would preserve his word... Well did he or didn't he?... If there is every translation under the sun, then he didn't but I KNOW HE DID!... The preserved word of God called the KJV is for the English people has been around for over 400 years and what is interesting to me, is the KJV was translated in 1611 and the Pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock in 1620... Coincidence?... A new book the preserved KJV word of God for the New World... So take that you KJV naysayers... I have been reading, studying and digging through the KJV for over 50 years... My belief is 100% Christ and scripture says so... Glad to be here and its time to take these shackles off!   
      John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
      I am... Brother Ramsey
       
      · 1 reply
    • stan1964stanssb

      Praise God I found such a powerhouse of the outpouring of His Spirit and unapologetic in regards of the defense of the KJV Bible. When I became a Christian back in 1984, I was told to get & read the KJV. It's been my choice all these years.
      · 0 replies
    • 1Timothy115  »  Ukulelemike

      Mike,
      RE: This is why I am here, why are you?
      Also, the land in Egypt wasn't land God gave them it was land Joseph through Pharaoh gave them. God gave them Canaan.
      Dave 
      · 1 reply
    • Alan

      Praise the Lord! Sherry and I, safe, tired, and joyful,  are back in Taiwan.
      · 0 replies
  • Popular Now

  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      27,460
    • Total Posts
      279,243
  • Topics

  • Recent Status Updates

    • Alan

      Happy Birthday John Young! God Bless! 🍰
      · 1 reply
    • KJV ME!

      Now it is time for me to step out of my shell and let go... I AM STRICT KJV!... In scripture God said he would preserve his word... Well did he or didn't he?... If there is every translation under the sun, then he didn't but I KNOW HE DID!... The preserved word of God called the KJV is for the English people has been around for over 400 years and what is interesting to me, is the KJV was translated in 1611 and the Pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock in 1620... Coincidence?... A new book the preserved KJV word of God for the New World... So take that you KJV naysayers... I have been reading, studying and digging through the KJV for over 50 years... My belief is 100% Christ and scripture says so... Glad to be here and its time to take these shackles off!   
      John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
      I am... Brother Ramsey
       
      · 1 reply
    • stan1964stanssb

      Praise God I found such a powerhouse of the outpouring of His Spirit and unapologetic in regards of the defense of the KJV Bible. When I became a Christian back in 1984, I was told to get & read the KJV. It's been my choice all these years.
      · 0 replies
    • 1Timothy115  »  Ukulelemike

      Mike,
      RE: This is why I am here, why are you?
      Also, the land in Egypt wasn't land God gave them it was land Joseph through Pharaoh gave them. God gave them Canaan.
      Dave 
      · 1 reply
    • Alan

      Praise the Lord! Sherry and I, safe, tired, and joyful,  are back in Taiwan.
      · 0 replies
×
×
  • Create New...