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Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.

We're all familiar with this prophetic passage of scripture. We've heard alot of theories on it, too. Well, I came across some information one day that got me to start doing some research on RFID chips. This is the technology that is mostly used in stores for inventory purposes. You've seen them doing inventory with the little tool that looks like a calculator with a handle on the bottom.

rfidreader.jpg

This technology is also used in agricultural applications to keep track of livestock. It would not be hard to use this same technology in humans. Notice how small this device can be. The device is in the palm of someones hand next to a grain of rice! :eek

rfidchip.jpg

It would not be hard to put something like that in every human being. Practically speaking, this would be a great way to keep track of who comes into the country illegally because they would not be able to buy a loaf of bread or a gallon of gas without the id.

The antenna vary quite a bit, but the one in the photo below gave me the eeby geebies.

rfidantenna.jpg

Yikes, does that look like a Swatztika to anyone else?

Anyways, I did some more research and I went to Snopes, you know how they debunk urban legends. Well, their article was doing that very thing, but they gave me more reason to believe this is the forerunner for the mark of the beast than any other theory. Click here to read the Snopes.com article.

Brethren, John put it best!

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed [is] he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

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Yes they've been developing and using this technology for a long time. Dogs now routinely (well, fairly) get microchipped for if they get lost. They have seriously discussed microchipping the elderly as well for the same reason.

I think technology wise its a great idea for dogs and maybe criminals or something.... but of course we know where it leads!!! I definitely think it is closely related to the mark of the beast, although I think the mark will be something in and of itself unique, something we as Christians will not see or experience because we'll be gone. :clap:

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I believe the mark will be something similar to that, if not that. Kita - they actually use them for much more than dogs (against our will, one was put into our cat...who is no longer with us). They've been putting them in cows for several years now. And there have been people who have allowed them to be implanted as experiments in some places. Makes it so much easier to grocery shop!

It's definitely scary. Mayhap one day soon we will be hearing how we need to implant those into our children at birth so they never get lost....

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I don't know how the mark of the beast will be given, I do know it will be given. More alarm clocks should be going off.

You already have an entire continent on one monetary system.

Why is the dollar's demise through deepening national debt and over printing being excellerated?

So, those of us who have faith in the Lord and believe He is God's only begotten Son can get taken out of the path of all this soon!

Two things that excelleration tells me (1) go witness to the lost (2) time is short.

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I believe the mark will be something similar to that, if not that. Kita - they actually use them for much more than dogs (against our will, one was put into our cat...who is no longer with us). They've been putting them in cows for several years now. And there have been people who have allowed them to be implanted as experiments in some places. Makes it so much easier to grocery shop!

It's definitely scary. Mayhap one day soon we will be hearing how we need to implant those into our children at birth so they never get lost....


Oh I know, I was just using dogs as the most common example. I have no doubt they will be forcing newborns to take them routinely in the future, esp if this child rights treaty is signed.
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Oh I know, I was just using dogs as the most common example. I have no doubt they will be forcing newborns to take them routinely in the future, esp if this child rights treaty is signed.


I figured you did - but a lot of people aren't aware of it...and some people just think it's a conspiracy theorist's babbling. I don't think so! I heard the other day someone saying that quite possibly the way they could go about getting people to have their kids implanted with these is to stress the idea of their getting lost or kidnapped. Using fear of things happening to their children is a real way to get parents to act. And if that treaty is signed, all kinds of things will happen!!!!
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I can see how this could be the forerunner of The Mark but let's not forget that technology itself is not the mark. Someone could implant one in their child today and not be giving that child the mark. The mark is given en masse during the time of the anti-Christ and an allegiance will go along with it. Those who refuse will be executed.

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I can see how this could be the forerunner of The Mark but let's not forget that technology itself is not the mark. Someone could implant one in their child today and not be giving that child the mark. The mark is given en masse during the time of the anti-Christ and an allegiance will go along with it. Those who refuse will be executed.

This is true...it is most likely a forerunner, even if this ends up being the thing. Getting people used to this kind of thing, though...
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In the category of unbelievably bad ideas that we all knew were making their way toward reality whether we like it or not comes the news the FDA has just approved VeriChip's implantable RFID chips for use in humans. These are the same chips that we're currently using to identify our pets. VeriChip is touting the chips' medical applications, as a way of potentially saving lives by storing medical data.

From ARS Technica News


AP updated 5:38 p.m. CT, Wed., Oct. 13, 2004
WASHINGTON - Medical milestone or privacy invasion? A tiny computer chip approved Wednesday for implantation in a patient?s arm can speed vital information about a patient?s medical history to doctors and hospitals. But critics warn that it could open new ways to imperil the confidentiality of medical records.


I realize I'm going to take rocks for this one, but "IF" the rapture did not preceed the starting of the tribulation, how would we know this was not the precursor to the implementation of "the mark?" Study the beginning of the Nazi collection of the mentally ill, and sickly, for eradication. The Jews, who did not believe this was going to happen, didn't see it coming. Within a short time, they were being gassed in concentration camps.

Why is it so hard to give the teachings of the church for the first 1800 years an "earnest" ear in regards to the tribulation and end times events? Why does pre-trib rapture have to be one of "the fundamentals?" It wasn't for 1800 years. IF this teaching (pre-trib rapture)is not correct, then there are going to be some serious consequences for those who say, "Well, because the Rapture will happen first, we won't ever see the "actual" mark, thus this chip can't harm us."

Has anyone seriously considered the possibilities?

Always question theories, even mine.

Never question the Bible.

Ben
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Because the mark of the beast is a specific obedient response to the global leader...it is a specific mark..and it is specifically needed in order to do anything, including shop.

Medical chips are not the same thing, unless of course they go along with the beast during the Tribulation.

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Ah, but the chip can harm us!!! I don't think anyone said anything other than that. The majority here believe that the Bible teaches a pre-trib rapture, which would mean that much of the problem with such a thing would happen afterwards. But there is no doubt that, should people allow those to be implanted, there will be harm. Privacy is a quickly eroding concept, and the chip will just make it all the worse...and then government can (and will) control more of our lives.

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I realize I'm going to take rocks for this one, but "IF" the rapture did not preceed the starting of the tribulation, how would we know this was not the precursor to the implementation of "the mark?" Study the beginning of the Nazi collection of the mentally ill, and sickly, for eradication. The Jews, who did not believe this was going to happen, didn't see it coming. Within a short time, they were being gassed in concentration camps.

Why is it so hard to give the teachings of the church for the first 1800 years an "earnest" ear in regards to the tribulation and end times events? Why does pre-trib rapture have to be one of "the fundamentals?" It wasn't for 1800 years. IF this teaching (pre-trib rapture)is not correct, then there are going to be some serious consequences for those who say, "Well, because the Rapture will happen first, we won't ever see the "actual" mark, thus this chip can't harm us."

Has anyone seriously considered the possibilities?

Always question theories, even mine.

Never question the Bible.

Ben


I'm glad you were willing to take the rocks on that one. I've always questioned the "get out of tribulation free card".
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Scripture says we are to ever be cautious of the schemes of the devil. This obviously holds the potential for evil uses against Christians now as well as later; along with non-Christians too, of course.

Since Scripture doesn't give a clear, 100% statement that there will absolutely be a pre-trib Rapture, I do believe it's wise to be alert to what's going on. I've studied the end-times/Rapture the best I can and while I do believe the pre-trib Rapture seems likely, I've yet to encounter an iron-clad case for this.

All things bear watching, we know the devil is continually prowling around.

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John81 said: "Since Scripture doesn't give a clear, 100% statement that there will absolutely be a pre-trib Rapture, I do believe it's wise to be alert to what's going on. I've studied the end-times/Rapture the best I can and while I do believe the pre-trib Rapture seems likely, I've yet to encounter an iron-clad case for this.

All things bear watching, we know the devil is continually prowling around."

:amen:

I fear that if we are to go through the tribulation, so many who have based their lives on "oh, well, I'm not going to be here for that anyway..." are going to be caught so off guard, they will not survive long at all. I have prepared myself mentally for the possibility; and I don't think we are far at all from the end.

The state of the world's economy, and the calls from Russia, China, EU, AU, and even many in the United States for a "global stimulus" and a "global economy" is pretty telling. Yes, globalists have always been around, but the world has never been in this position--having the capability to do such a thing. Other things that are possible now, that many wondered about just a couple decades ago: How will the WHOLE WORLD witness the two witnesses deaths? How can the mark work? It's already working in several high-end country clubs. Entrance, attendance, purchases, etc. are all tracked by a chip implanted in a member's arm.

So many of the "how can or could that be's?" are being answered today. Just the fact that Israel exists as a nation today is a miracle.

Speaking of Israel, the Bible talks of the alliances against them in the end time. Russia, no longer the Soviet Union, is a very powerful nation, and getting more powerful as time goes on. Iran will be nuclear within the next few months. Russia and China, longtime rivals are now friendly--even partnering up for military excercises. Iran and Russia, not friend for many years, are now friendly and have a mutual attack agreement/treaty for certain situations. Russia is providing much of Iran's nuclear fuel. Turkey has the capability to "dry up" the Euphrates river. A dam in Turkey can basically turn that river "off." Turkey and Israel have been relatively friendly for years. Now, Turkey is not so friendly towards Israel.

My biggest reason for questioning pre-trib is Jesus' answer to the apostles when they asked what to look for, and when would it all happen. It's not simply the words of Jesus, and the signs that He says to look for (which correspond to the Revelation), but the fact that He actually took the time to tell them all these signs and situations to look for. If we aren't to go through the tribulation, why did Jesus speak vain words? Why did He take the time? If WE know FOR SURE that we won't be here, SURELY JESUS CHRIST knew that, too. It would have been out of character for Jesus to not just say, fear not, those things aren't meant for you--instead of going into detail of the signs--if we were not going to be here. As I said, it's not WHAT He said so much for me, but the fact that He took the time to explain it in such detail.

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He was speaking to Christians who were saved after the rapture....of course he was not speaking to the disciples nor to any Christians who are to die before the end days.


He was speaking to His disciples who were alive and present at the time and wanted to know when all these things should come to pass, just as anyone would.

The early church expected the tribulation, and many believed they were living through it. Today, Ameiricanized-Christianity has taken a relatively new idea (that of pre-tribulation rapture) and made it a cornerstone doctrine in many circles.

I have traveled the world. I've been to over thirty different countries in the last ten years as a DoD employee. I can say as an eyewitness, that Christians in other, poorer, parts of the world don't subscribe to the pre-tribulation rapture en masse as westerners do. Many of the countries I have been to, you will be killed for simply saying you are Christian. Tell that person we aren't meant to see tribulation.

They laugh at rich Americans and their cushy lifestyles. They think its hilarious when Americans claim to be persecuted because the Ten Commandments can't be posted in a courtroom--while simply citing Jn 3:16 will get your toungue cut out in many places where they live. Most Christians are forced to practice in secret. Some, very few, are bold enough to approach an American and ask question regarding the subject for fear of their lives. And it is surprising how many high ranking officials actually believe.

There is no reason for a heated discussion, but discussion is good. Whether I believe in post trib or you believe in pre-trib won't effect where both you and I will be 10,000 years from now.
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I figure those who are saved now miss the Trib. Those who are saved after the Rapture will prove their salvation by avoiding the mark.

What happens if we go through the Trib and take the mark? End of eternal security?

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If you are a Christian, you won't take the mark. Just as God gave our early church fathers and mothers the strength to sing hymns as they were burned at the stake, He will give martyrs in our time the power to withstand the devil/anti-Christ.

I stated before, I think it is good to be prepared for the possibility of enduring at least part of the tribulation. I'm not discarding pre-trib completely, but I find more biblical evidence supporting otherwise, and that is why I lean that way. If I'm wrong, PRAISE GOD!!!!!!!!! If I'm not, I feel sorry for millions of Christians, especially pastors, who won't be prepared at all for what they face.

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If you are a Christian, you won't take the mark. Just as God gave our early church fathers and mothers the strength to sing hymns as they were burned at the stake, He will give martyrs in our time the power to withstand the devil/anti-Christ.

I stated before, I think it is good to be prepared for the possibility of enduring at least part of the tribulation. I'm not discarding pre-trib completely, but I find more biblical evidence supporting otherwise, and that is why I lean that way. If I'm wrong, PRAISE GOD!!!!!!!!! If I'm not, I feel sorry for millions of Christians, especially pastors, who won't be prepared at all for what they face.


Wasn't Stephen martyred after the Holy Spirit was given? Post-trib martyrdom won't have the Holy Spirit to help them. Isn't this scripture dealing with no Spirit martyrdom:

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
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Quote: "Wasn't Stephen martyred after the Holy Spirit was given? Post-trib martyrdom won't have the Holy Spirit to help them. Isn't this scripture dealing with no Spirit martyrdom:

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way"


Wasn't John the Baptist martyred BEFORE the Holy Spirit was given?

I don't believe the church or Spirit is gone after Rev. 4 as many do. This belief only stems from the word "church" not being used. There are lots of words not used for long periods of time in the Bible. It means nothing. If we apply that same argument to the gospel of John, we have to conclude that the gospel of John isn't for the church because the word church isn't even mentioned in all of its chapters. Can that be true?

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Jesus, in the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24:3-31), outlines the sequence of events in the last days relative to the church. Verses 3-14 parallel Revelation chapter 6 and depict those events from the beginning of the 70th week to the rapture. Then, in verses 15-28, He focuses on the middle time period of that future week (the final 7 years) and emphasizes two key events: (a) a time of great persecution, and (B) the "cut[ting] short" of "those days" of persecution for "the sake of the elect". Finally, in verses 29-31, He highlights what it is that will "cut short" that persecution, the rescue of the elect (the rapture).

Paul echoes this same teaching in his 2nd letter to the Thessalonians 2:1-12: (a) the apostasy comes first, (B) the revealing of the man of lawlessness, © the "challenge" to all who will not bow down to him and worship him "as being God", and (d) the coming of the Lord to "gather together" believers unto Himself.

In Revelation 6-8, we have the same sequence repeated: (a) the 70th week begins, (B) the pressure builds [seals 1-3], © the midpoint [seals 4-5] and apex of the persecution (against the "saints") arrives, (d) the "cut[ting] short" of that persecution with the same cosmic announcement [seal 6] as Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:29-31 followed by the rapture of the saints (Revelation 7:9ff). There is absolutely no teaching either by hint or by direct instruction that the church will not be present during the 70th week of Daniel.

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I doubt the mark will have anything to do with microchips. The beast will have the power to perform miracles and to recover from a serious wound (probably a fake resurrection). I think the mark will be something that he gives by touch. Now dispatching this mark to millions of people may come through technology like a holographic like projection ("prince of the power of the air"). If anyone watched CNN the night Obama won the election they showed a holographic like image for the first time on TV. A sign of things to come?

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Hambone wrote:
If you are a Christian, you won't take the mark. Just as God gave our early church fathers and mothers the strength to sing hymns as they were burned at the stake, He will give martyrs in our time the power to withstand the devil/anti-Christ
.

Many Christians did flee from such persecutions and some even recanted to avoid death yet thier testamony bore out they were saved.

What if a Christian is arrested, held down, and forced to take the mark. Are they lost? Not according to the Bible. Just food for thought.

This is like saying once your saved you wont sin or you wont commit the same sin over and over. 1John 1:8-9

Any Christian who says they have not sinned on purpose is a liar. 1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
That is why scripture tells us the flee from youthful lust, fornication,etc. Why flee? because we will fall into it if we are around it.

Most of the earth is going to die in the great tribulation. We have tribulation today (though not really in America. We have it very good). the seven year tribulation has a lot of threads on it you can research so I wont post it again.

whatever the mark is I think it will be in development and ready for use. I think it will possibly be like and invisible imprint. Who knows, it is interesting to ponder though.
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