Guest Guest Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Hehe Kathie...What does everybody believe about dispensational salvation? I believe that believers were all saved the same way, by grace through faith, through all dispensations. I believe that in all dispensations, people can/could not lose their salvation. I'm gonna try to find the verses my preacher showed us on this topic in Bible Institute Monday night. Hopefully I wrote them in my notebook haha. Katy-Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Samer Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 Romans 4 (1) What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? (2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. (3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. (5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, (7) Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. (8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. (9) Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. (10) How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. (11) And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: (12) And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. (13) For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. (14) For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: (15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. (16) Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (17) (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. (18) Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. (19) And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb: (20) He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; (21) And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. (22) And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. (23) Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; (24) But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; (25) Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Randy Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 I believe that salvation is through faith in all dispensations. I'm not sure that the OT saints were sealed, nor am I sure about the tribulation saints. I'll see about finding some scripture after I finish putting in my new bathtub. _ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joyfulpraise93 Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 [quote="Samer"] Romans 4 (1) What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? (2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. (3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. (5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, (7) Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. (8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. (9) Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. (10) How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. (11) And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: (12) And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. (13) For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. (14) For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: (15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. (16) Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (17) (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. (18) Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. (19) And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb: (20) He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; (21) And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. (22) And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. (23) Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; (24) But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; (25) Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. [/quote] I agree with God's Word. :) Can't go wrong with that. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinmiller Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 What's dispensational salvation? :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Samer Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 Heresy. :) It says not everybody is saved by grace through faith. For example, some will say you have to be perfect in the tribulation. I say...rubbish. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Lol I LOVE your simple definition of "dispensational salvation" Samer. Katy-Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members joyfulpraise93 Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 Simple and straight to the point...and totally right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Dispensational Salvation is the teaching that people were saved differently in different dispensations. Basically teaching that people in the Old Testament had to have faith + works to be saved...and that it'll be similar in the Tribulation. Of course, I don't believe this way...I just haven't seen enough clear evidence to prove that it's 100% false. Romans 4 is a good start...and that's one of the reasons I don't believe dispensational salvation is clearly taught in the Bible. Am I making any sense here? lol...I'm still studying this subject because I find it very interesting. Another question...since this is totally related to the topic... :D Many people use Hebrews 6:4-6 to prove that no one can lose their salvation. They say it is a hypothetical situation. However, there is nothing in the context to prove that it's hypothetical. Could there be an application here to people in a different time? Possibly to Tribulation saints? :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Samer Posted February 3, 2007 Members Share Posted February 3, 2007 The word "if" suggests hypothetical, doesn't it? In any case, "hypothetical" isn't my interpretation of it. I think it's actually speaking to false converts, for various reasons (I'm on the phone right now, :wink: so can't detail them all, but I'll give the clearest reason). Hebrews 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, [b]and things that accompany salvation[/b], though we thus speak. Context, context, context. :mrgreen: Hebrews 6 does not mean anybody can lose their salvation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Actually the "if" is saying that "if they shall fall away"...the "if" is not in verse 4, such as "for if it is impossible"...now that would be hypothetical. I've read these verses over and over...and re-read the chapter over and over...and the context still proves it's not hypothetical. If it was talking about false converts, then it basically says they can't get saved? I've heard of several false converts getting saved...so that can't be the right application, can it? I'm not saying it clearly shows dispensational salvation either. It's one of those really deep passages in Scripture, and many people have twisted it to mean something it doesn't say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bakershalfdozen Posted February 4, 2007 Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 The mistake people make is assuming that in the O.T., obeying the law equaled salvation, praying a praying in our dispensation equals salvation and in the Tribulation, not taking the mark will equal salvation. It is not the act itself that equals salvation. The act is the evidence of faith. People will not take the mark during the Tribulation because they will have heard God's message via the 144,000 Jewish witnesses and the 2 special witnesses (different debate, leave it alone :wink: ). They will believe God and therefore not take the mark. Salvation is still by faith not by works. The works are the evidence of the faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Samer Posted February 4, 2007 Members Share Posted February 4, 2007 Oh, right, I think I posted before I thought! Right, so.....partial converts. :mrgreen: I believe there are souls that God speaks to, enlightens, and convicts, that see the miracles of God (maybe are a part of church for a bit), and after all of God's drawing and longsuffering, they reject God. I think verses 4-6 speak of these types. And we have to understand it in light of verse 9, in any case. Things which accompany true salvation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 [quote="Bakershalfdozen"] The mistake people make is assuming that in the O.T., obeying the law equaled salvation, praying a praying in our dispensation equals salvation and in the Tribulation, not taking the mark will equal salvation. It is not the act itself that equals salvation. The act is the evidence of faith. People will not take the mark during the Tribulation because they will have heard God's message via the 144,000 Jewish witnesses and the 2 special witnesses (different debate, leave it alone :wink: ). They will believe God and therefore not take the mark. Salvation is still by faith not by works. The works are the evidence of the faith. [/quote] I actually have to say this is the best response so far! :) I have another question though. (don't ya love all these questions, hehe) If it was works as evidence of faith, then was it possible for someone to stop having faith in the Old Testament and not be saved? What I mean is...if a person had faith, did what they were supposed to, obeyed God...etc. etc. ...could they turn around and stop having faith in God later? If so, would they still be saved...seeing there was no promise of "Once saved, always saved" in the Old Testament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted February 4, 2007 Share Posted February 4, 2007 [quote="Samer"] Oh, right, I think I posted before I thought! Right, so.....partial converts. :mrgreen: I believe there are souls that God speaks to, enlightens, and convicts, that see the miracles of God (maybe are a part of church for a bit), and after all of God's drawing and longsuffering, they reject God. I think verses 4-6 speak of these types. And we have to understand it in light of verse 9, in any case. Things which accompany true salvation? [/quote] Partial converts? What are those? lol Either you're saved or you aren't saved. You can't be both. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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