King James Onlyism: A New Sect

[Calvary]

Men like Kutilek, Price, White, Coombs and others are promoting an old heresy under a new banner.

Brethren, the bottom and very simple line to this issue is this; either there is a doctrine called the inerreancy and infallibilty of scriptures or there is a doctrine what I have been calling fallible scriptures.

I have corresponded with Kutilek, Coombs and Norris over this fallible scriptures doctrine in which they say I am misrepresenting them.

If there is no error free Bible today then you promote what must be fallible scriptures and therefore deny the preservation and plenary inspiration of the word of God.

There is no middle ground brethren.

Inspiration cannot be divorced from preservation.

To regelate the inspiration of the scritpuers to solely original mss (whatever those are anyways) you effectivley deny the transmission through preservation and effectively deny that there are scriptures today.

In no case in any palce in the Bible (any Bible) can one prove that the word scriptures ever referred to originals only. In fact, to date not one detractor from the faith once given to the saints (Kutilek, White, Coombs, Norris et al) has responded with one verse to demstrate their doctrine of fallible scriptures.

Original onlyism is a man made doctrine.

KJB exclusivism is the logical, Biblical and sound conclusion for the English speaking peoples. That's exactly what Hills, Waite, Burgon and Fuller concluded.

God bless,

Calvary

[kevinmiller]

Original onlyism is a man made doctrine.

Whoaaaaaa.....and KJV onlyism is not? :eek

[Calvary]

Is there more than one source for infallible scriptures?

How can you hand me two Bibles that have disagreements and then say, They are both the infallible word of God?

Your position, kevin, only exists in the chalkboard, it's technical applications are purely academic brother, they can only exist in thoery as they cannot be produced for examination.

I know that you claim to be KJB, yet you consistent stance against the KJB only is evidence of what you really believe. Out of the abundnce of the heart a man speaks.

Men like Will Kenney for example have to agree with the originals being infallibe, of course we agree with that, of course we wouldn't deny their God breathed infallibility, yet, and I say YET!, these originals that are existent only in the white board of text books cannot be produced, therefore the practical application that corresponds to actual faith is exactly where the break down begins.

On the one hand we have those that say like Price, there is nor eal difference, we can rest assurred that we have a trustworthy, fairly accurate translation that is more or less representative of the originals.

On another hand we have thsoe that say, well that's all good and dandy for you and the scholars who seem to think that intellect is the determining factor in the final analyisis if where is the Bible, but we are just plain folks, who simply want to beleive that when Jesus said that not one jot would pass away, He really meant what he said.

If in fact he was referring to original mss, then He lied. If he was referring to the message only, then He left us in a quandry, subject to interpretation of men and again He Himself has contradicted His own word where Peter said, no scripture is subject to private interpretation.

For you, kevin, and others I have met, you seem to have this need for some huge intellectual argument full of extra biblical terms and whatnot, that "factual basis" is the determination of truth instead of simply what the Bible actually says.

I posted over 10 verses from over 12 versions that all said the same thing about what the Bible is. You rejected your own confession and still cavil that the KJB is not the exclusive word of God that is and has been preserved without error.

You do so by suggesting that there are still other sources of infallibilty, error free words of God out there and therefore posit a double authority.

You may not see it that way, but it's the way it is.

No sir, I never said KJB onlyism, I said KJB exclusivism. Your reaction keven speaks volumes about your real stand.

You are of course entitled to stand there, but please do not call yourself a KJB man when you have effectivley demonstrated time and time again on this board you are not. Your position allows for conflicting authorities and therby requiring a scholar's approach instead of a believing approach to the Bible.

I know, I know, I am mis representing you. Yes, yes dear child, I know, I know, I should actually read what you posted in another thread that was locked.

I did.

Calvary

[Jerry]

According to Price, the KJV is only one version among many good and even better versions.

Don't you find it ironic that those for ANY version always downgrade the King James Bible? If one version is just as good as the next and they are all the same, why do they STILL knock the KJV? Because they have an agenda - and as stated, the King James Bible is the one that is different and draws a line that the others won't.

[brandplucked]

...but please do not call yourself a KJB man when you have effectivley demonstrated time and time again on this board you are not. Your position allows for conflicting authorities and therby requiring a scholar's approach instead of a believing approach to the Bible.
Calvary

Well said and very true. And this scholar's approach leaves him with no pure and true word of God. His only Final Authority is his own fickle mind, and nobody else on earth agrees with his peculiar version of "the bible" either. - "and ye shall be as gods"

"Kept by the power of God through faith" 1 Peter 1:5

Will K

[kevinmiller]

Your position, kevin, only exists in the chalkboard, it's technical applications are purely academic brother, they can only exist in thoery as they cannot be produced for examination.

I know that you claim to be KJB, yet you consistent stance against the KJB only is evidence of what you really believe. Out of the abundnce of the heart a man speaks.

The originals do exist though. You can't deny it. Because I could buy them if I wanted to. They DO exist. And yes, I use only the KJV, but I don't make it a doctrine. I use the KJV because of it's accuracy, not because of an extra-Biblical theory that states that it has been re-inspired.

I posted over 10 verses from over 12 versions that all said the same thing about what the Bible is. You rejected your own confession and still cavil that the KJB is not the exclusive word of God that is and has been preserved without error.

God did not exclusively give the Bible to English-speaking people. God has given His word in many languages to many countries and peoples. There is nothing in my Bible about exclusion.

You are of course entitled to stand there, but please do not call yourself a KJB man when you have effectivley demonstrated time and time again on this board you are not. Your position allows for conflicting authorities and therby requiring a scholar's approach instead of a believing approach to the Bible.

Again, I use the KJV because it is a faithful translation of the Greek and Hebrew. In my mind, that is the only reason to use it. Not because you believe in a non-Biblical doctrine called re-inspiration.

I know, I know, I am mis representing you. Yes, yes dear child, I know, I know, I should actually read what you posted in another thread that was locked.

It's a shame we can't have a discussion like two grown men without you throwing petty insults at me.

[kevinmiller]

Well said and very true. And this scholar's approach leaves him with no pure and true word of God. His only Final Authority is his own fickle mind, and nobody else on earth agrees with his peculiar version of "the bible" either. - "and ye shall be as gods"

"Kept by the power of God through faith" 1 Peter 1:5

Will K

I'm really surprised anyone takes you seriously. :loco

[GlenBurnieMD]

What was that about petty insults and grown men???

[kevinmiller]

Some seem to think that because I don't fall in line with my "faith" in a particular translation that I do not believe in the authority of the Bible and accept any new translation coming down the pike. It is a lie to claim such as I have made my position on the KJV and the Bible very clear. It is nothing more than slander because I don't agree with their methods used in defense of the KJV. So, for everyone to see exactly where I stand since lines like "His only Final Authority is his own fickle mind" keep coming into play whenever I voice my disagreement with anything that he says, here is what I posted in the KJV thread:

-I believe the KJV is inspired through preservation.
-I believe that the KJV is the best translation available to the English-speaking world but is still a translation and does not replace or improve upon the Hebrew and Greek.
-I believe that any Bible version that is faithful to the Greek and Hebrew(Majority Text) is inspired through preservation.

[kevinmiller]

What was that about petty insults and grown men???

Mike, anyone can see that whenever I disagree with Will K, he makes up nonsense insults against me that have no basis. Whenever ANYONE disagrees with him, he accuses them of having "no final authority but their own mind." It is nothing but unfounded slander. And he does it to anyone who voices disagreement.

[GlenBurnieMD]

Kevin,

I am all for brotherly kindness and charity. I hope that all members of OLB will season their postings here with a hefty dose of it. I do not believe for a minute that you, Will or any of the regulars here want to be stumbling blocks for others. I would hope that if someone cannot show kindness in their disagreement then they would refrain from posting until they could. This should apply whether the poster is right or wrong in whatever issue is being discussed. Harshness and sarcasm are not fruits of the Spirit. Longsuffering, gentlleness and meekness are.

Some advice: If you have been wronged, then why not take the wrong and suffer quietly? Consider your credibility when you are tempted to engage in the activity you say you do not like others doing to you. I really do not think you want this as part of your character.

The Sword has an excellent article on the Christian blogosphere. It's on their website. I really liked it. We should all take it to heart.

Peace

[John the Baptist]

Kevin,

I am all for brotherly kindness and charity. I hope that all members of OLB will season their postings here with a hefty dose of it. I do not believe for a minute that you, Will or any of the regulars here want to be stumbling blocks for others. I would hope that if someone cannot show kindness in their disagreement then they would refrain from posting until they could. This should apply whether the poster is right or wrong in whatever issue is being discussed. Harshness and sarcasm are not fruits of the Spirit. Longsuffering, gentlleness and meekness are.

Some advice: If you have been wronged, then why not take the wrong and suffer quietly? Consider your credibility when you are tempted to engage in the activity you say you do not like others doing to you. I really do not think you want this as part of your character.

The Sword has an excellent article on the Christian blogosphere. It's on their website. I really liked it. We should all take it to heart.

Peace

I was stationed at Fort Meade Maryland During the sixties when I was in the army. we use to go into Glenburnie often. Do they still have the sub restaurant that was thre at that time? It is probably gone by now.

God Bless
John

[GlenBurnieMD]

Would that be Roy's Quick Corner?

I'm not a native so I do not know what is "old".

[Calvary]

The originals do exist though. You can't deny it. Because I could buy them if I wanted to. They DO exist. And yes, I use only the KJV, but I don't make it a doctrine. I use the KJV because of it's accuracy, not because of an extra-Biblical theory that states that it has been re-inspired.

That is incredibly naive brother.

I do in fact publically deny that the originals exist.

You could no more buy them then you could produce them.

Referring me to Stephens, or Beza, or Erasmus will only demostrate your extremely limited information that somehow you seem to think is valid. Stephens 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th editrion is not the original, nor are they the originals. Beza's 10 editions are niether. Erasmus's editions are neither. And no dear child the KJB is not "re-inspired", it is altogether inspired scripture.

My friend, kevin, I am sorry you think I am attacking you, in all sincerity I am really trying to help you, but you just won't be taught by anyone as you already have a predisposition to not admit that you really don't know as much as you think you do about this stuff. You demonstrate yourself to be unteachable.

I hope it goes well with you.

God bless,

Calvary

[pneu-engine]

The originals do exist though. You can't deny it. Because I could buy them if I wanted to. They DO exist.

Kevin, are you sure about that statement. The reason that I say this is that if what you say is true, then I want them. You don't even have to use your own money, you can use mine. I can show you thousands of people that would like to have an exact full-color photocopy of those "originals".

I'm an enterprising individual and know a good deal when I see one. You get the originals, use my money to do it, and I'll set up shop, and I'm going into business immediately. :thumb :drool :drool :drool :drool :drool

Man oh man, this gets me excited!!!!!!!!!!! I would supply to every last good IFB church, missionary, and Bible institution that I know that teaches the Truth and provide them with an exact photocopy. Not only that, but I would operate completely as a not-for-profit company, simply for the purpose of getting the original autographs into the hands of everyone that wants them.

Not only that, Kevin, but I would give you a $200.00 finders fee, and all you have to do is make them available. You have no out-of-pocket expenses. Whaddya say??????????? I will tell you what you have to say:::::::::::

You will have to turn down my offer. Do you know why???? Very simply, because you cannot get them. They are not available. The originals, as we all know, are the original autographs and have long since been destroyed. However, God has been true to His Word and has preserved them in accurate and infallible copies and translations. The ONLY accurate translation for non-multi-lingual English speaking people is the KJV.

Kevin, Those original autographs are all completely gone and never to be seen again. That's a fact that you are just going to have to accept.