Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest

    For an ad free experience on Online Baptist, Please login or register for free

2 Thessalonians 2:2-6?


Recommended Posts

  • Members

Heartstrings, you said,

PreacherBen,
You have used two separate passages: one for 1 Timothy and one for 2 Timothy.
But only one of these passages is speaking about the UNSAVED...and that is the one you quoted fro 2 Timothy


I don't see the difference for either group. Both have the signs of those who may or may not be saved.

The rest is good logic. I agree. I think this would be consistent with:

1Cr 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Cr 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

If we stray from the fundamentals of the faith, we will have an adverse affect on the future of good doctrine and affect those who will believe afterwards. Some will believe in Christ unto salvation, only to have their faith affected in a ill manner by watered down holiness, or weak and shallow doctrine. Some on the other hand, will actually NOT be saved, and make a unfounded profession, you know, 123, say this prayer. the churches are full of them. These are those who appear to be in the faith, they are professors, but not posessors. Many of these will turn from the faith (they practice, but don't truely have,) and trust antichrist when he comes.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 181
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Members
Heartstrings, you said,


I don't see the difference for either group. Both have the signs of those who may or may not be saved.

The rest is good logic. I agree. I think this would be consistent with:

Speaking to saved people
1Cr 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Cr 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Also Speaking to saved people
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Speaking about the Unsaved---and false doctrine
Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

If we stray from the fundamentals of the faith, we will have an adverse affect on the future of good doctrine and affect those who will believe afterwards. Some will believe in Christ unto salvation, only to have their faith affected in a ill manner by watered down holiness, or weak and shallow doctrine. Some on the other hand, will actually NOT be saved, and make a unfounded profession, you know, 123, say this prayer. the churches are full of them. These are those who appear to be in the faith, they are professors, but not posessors. Many of these will turn from the faith (they practice, but don't truely have,) and trust antichrist when he comes.

The passage you mentioned in 1 Timothy 4, is speaking of departing from the faith...and it is warning Timothy himself to hold to sound doctrine. It is not speaking about departing from a "profession" of faith. Read what it says. A "professor" was never in the faith to begin with...he only has "a form of godliness and denies the power thereof". In other words....if you got folk in your church who made a false profession, they've never been "in the faith", they don't even know God! How can they depart from the faith? On the other hand if you've got some who are truly born again, and some false teacher slips into your church and starts sneaking in a little Calvinism, then false doctrine is beginning to creep in. Pretty soon, saved folk who fail to read and study their Bibles for themselves, are going to start swallowing it hook line and sinker and then propagate it themselves. There are folks deceived by Calvinism, who post on these forums as well as folks messed up on the security of the believer. It can creep into a doctrinally sound church too. Once again, 1 Timothy 4 is speaking of warning of those "seducing spirits and doctrines of devils". And saved folk who don't believe things like "doctrines of grace" and "once saved now lost" theology are examples of "doctrines of devils" are "giving heed" to seducing spirits [bible]1 Timothy 4[/bible]
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Members

Heartstrings, you said:

And saved folk who don't believe things like "doctrines of grace" and "once saved now lost" theology are examples of "doctrines of devils" are "giving heed" to seducing spirits 1 Timothy 4


O.k., now I know we are vearing off the path from II Thess. 2, but, you have boldly said that those who believe these examples, i.e.,doctrines of grace" and "once saved now lost" theology are examples of "doctrines of devils, and listening to "seducing spirits" as opposed to what "saved folk" believe. Here are a couple of questions for you:

1. Was C.H. Spurgeon, a Calvinist who believed the "doctrines of grace" saved?
2. Was John Wesley, an Arminian who believed in the apostate "falling from the faith," saved?

This type of rhetoric makes good preaching, but bad doctrine of itself. Please be clear and tell it like it is, Spurgeon, Whitfield, Wesley, etc. were men who taught "doctrines of devils" and listened to "seducing spirits," and did not believe what "saved folk" believe. Do I have that right?

Ben
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrators

We must make things clear that we do not put our trust in Spurgeon, Wesley or any other preacher. Only God knows if those men are saved or not. Spurgeon was a good preacher but did have his errors.

?I believe there will be more in Heaven than in hell. If anyone asks me why I think so' date=' I answer, because Christ, in everything, is to ?have the pre-eminence,? and I cannot conceive how He could have the pre-eminence if there are to be more in the dominions of Satan than in Paradise?[/quote']
Now I clearly believe that is contrary to the Bible. [bible]Matthew 7:14[/bible] "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."


My point in all of this is, it is better to use Scripture to back our points than try and use what other preachers teach. Stick to the Bible.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Bro. Matt,
I like to bring attention to this logic because it is the equivalent to RCC persecution of the "heretics." No, we don't tie them up and set them on fire, but what we do and what we allow is to micro-define "the faith" in such a way that all those outside of "our" definition are the "real heretics" and we all then know whom to disdain and set at nought. Yes, God has held up a great deal of strong truth through many good IFB men, BUT, Baptist fundamentalism is "a" movement of God, not "the" movement of God. To label our brethren of the faith who have gone on before us as those who...believe things like "doctrines of grace" and "once saved now lost" theology are examples of "doctrines of devils" are "giving heed" to seducing spirits...IS WRONG. I may disagree with someone's personal view of a theological issue, but if they proclaim saving faith in the finished work of Jesus Chris on the cross of Calvary, and ascribe the wonders of their salvation ALL a work of grace, we should not, so quickly, and without attention, let them be deemed such, by beloved brethren.

:2cents

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Bro. Matt,
I like to bring attention to this logic because it is the equivalent to RCC persecution of the "heretics." No, we don't tie them up and set them on fire, but what we do and what we allow is to micro-define "the faith" in such a way that all those outside of "our" definition are the "real heretics" and we all then know whom to disdain and set at nought. Yes, God has held up a great deal of strong truth through many good IFB men, BUT, Baptist fundamentalism is "a" movement of God, not "the" movement of God. To label our brethren of the faith who have gone on before us as those who...believe things like "doctrines of grace" and "once saved now lost" theology are examples of "doctrines of devils" are "giving heed" to seducing spirits...IS WRONG. I may disagree with someone's personal view of a theological issue, but if they proclaim saving faith in the finished work of Jesus Chris on the cross of Calvary, and ascribe the wonders of their salvation ALL a work of grace, we should not, so quickly, and without attention, let them be deemed such, by beloved brethren.

:2cents


Agreed!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Maybe you misunderstood me, PreacherBen.

I was trying to say that it is possible for SAVED people to give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.
Timothy was a saved man. But Paul was warning Timothy to hold to sound doctrine. Why? Because, evidently Timothy was as susceptible as anybody else.

Please understand: Spurgeon may well be in Heaven right now, but if he did believe in Calvinism, he also had been decieved by "seducing spirits".;;Because calvinsm is wicked false doctrine and is therefore of the devil; same goes for the doctrine of "losing one's salvation"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Maybe you misunderstood me, PreacherBen.

I was trying to say that it is possible for SAVED people to give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.
Timothy was a saved man. But Paul was warning Timothy to hold to sound doctrine. Why? Because, evidently Timothy was as susceptible as anybody else.

Please understand: Spurgeon may well be in Heaven right now, but if he did believe in Calvinism, he also had been decieved by "seducing spirits".;;Because calvinsm is wicked false doctrine and is therefore of the devil; same goes for the doctrine of "losing one's salvation"


:goodpost:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
  • Members

The post tribuulation rapture teaching is false and was unknown in the protestant church until about 1825.

Let us look at the scripture quoted in the title. I have included verse 1 .

1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
The church is the Tedmple of God today, not every believer as is often taught. Temple is always singular which is why I believe that Wesley is wrong when he wrote "Never more you temples leave


"1 Corinthians 3:16-17 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

"1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?"

"2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."

The rest of your post isn't sound doctrine either.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Members



"1 Corinthians 3:16-17 Know ye Plural not that ye are Pluralthe temple singular of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? Plural If any man defile the temple singular of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple singular of God is holy, which temple singular ye Pluralare."

"1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye Plural not that your Plural body is the temple singular of the Holy Ghost which is in you, Pluralwhich ye Plural have of God, and ye Pluralare not your Pluralown?"

"2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple singular of God with idols? for ye Plural are Pluralthe temple singular of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."

The rest of your post isn't sound doctrine either.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


Again we see the plurality if those builded together into the singular habitation of God. All these verses you quoted show that there is one temple.

As to the rest of my post, that is your opinion probably from what you have been taught.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


Again we see the plurality if those builded together into the singular habitation of God. All these verses you quoted show that there is one temple.

As to the rest of my post, that is your opinion probably from what you have been taught.


It's clear from comparing scripture with scripture that the event spoken of here is the same event that Daniel and our Lord spoke about. It has nothing to do with Satan sitting down in the body of the church or America being Babylon or any other goofy idea. It is simply the Antichrist sitting down in a JEWISH TEMPLE made of building materials.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...