Members tired Posted August 10, 2007 Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 These verses always confuse me. Does anyone have any ideas to what these verses might be talking about? 2: That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4: Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5: Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6: And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Madeline Posted August 10, 2007 Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 I'm no prophecy expert, but I believe the "falling away" (Gr. apostasia) refers to the great apostasy which will precede the coming of the Antichrist. The antichrist will sit in the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem claiming that he is God incarnate. Perhaps somebody else can expound on this. :smile Love, Madeline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tired Posted August 10, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 I guess what I am cofused about is, is the day of Christ the rapture or armageddon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sarcrew Posted August 10, 2007 Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 As I understand it, as Madeline pointed out, it points to a future time. He was exhorting them to stand fast in faith and not be concerned about rumors that Christ's coming was upon them. We have seen throughout history how many have "claimed" a date for the "Coming" and caused some to lose faith becasue the prediction was wrong. It is a warning to not let the predictions of man - "Let no man deceive you by any means:" - to discourage us. To stand fast, and know that "for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed,". Wayne Edited to add - Sorry, I was typing this when your last post was done so I didn't see it before posting this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry Posted August 10, 2007 Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 He was telling them not to be led astray by false epistles from others that taught them false doctrine. Then he tells them the truth about the rapture and being caught up before the Antichrist comes on the scene. The day of Christ is the same time period as the day of the Lord - starting with the rapture and going through the tribulation period. If you look at all the passages that refer to the day of Christ or day of Jesus Christ (and related terms), you will see they refer to various things the church will be involved in (and the day of the Lord refers to Israel and the world), such as the rapture, the marriage supper of the Lamb (if I remember correctly), the judgment seat of Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tired Posted August 10, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 So are we going to be here when the anti-christ is revealed. It seems to be saying that.That is what is confusing me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 5dumplings@home Posted August 10, 2007 Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 read 7 and 8 of the same chapter He cannot be revealed until the Spirit has been removed...with the Holy Spirit, we also go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tired Posted August 10, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 Very good. I was having a problem understanding that too. Sometimes I have to read stuff more than once. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Madeline Posted August 10, 2007 Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 The Holy Sprit is God and therefore "Omnipresent," thus cannot literally be removed from the earth. It is the HS's power working within the body of believers (the salt of the earth - cf. Matt 5:13) which is removed. Love, Madeline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry Posted August 10, 2007 Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 The Holy Spirit can be removed the exact same way He came - and Jesus did say He will come; therefore it is not contradicting Scripture to say He will one day leave again with the church, which is His body. Obviously He will still be present on earth, but His purpose here and what He does during that time will be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 5dumplings@home Posted August 10, 2007 Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 But Madeline, before Pentecost, the Spirit only came upon men. He did not dwell within men. The Spirit did not dwell upon the earth until after Christ's ascension. The word in verse 7 for way is dealing with being removed from the midst of. So, yes, the Holy Spirit will be taken. Since men will be saved in the Tribulation, it may be the Spirit will function once more as He did in pre-Pentecost days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Madeline Posted August 10, 2007 Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 But Madeline, before Pentecost, the Spirit only came upon men. He did not dwell within men. The Spirit did not dwell upon the earth until after Christ's ascension. The word in verse 7 for way is dealing with being removed from the midst of. So, yes, the Holy Spirit will be taken. Since men will be saved in the Tribulation, it may be the Spirit will function once more as He did in pre-Pentecost days. Haven't had much time to study since I'm at work. But what does Pentecost have to do with 2 Thess. 2:6? The Holy Spirit NOW indwells all true believers and will be removed in the sense that the "body of believers" will be absent from the earth, not the Holy Spirit. You have your Greek mixed up. The Greek word "taken" in v. 7 is (ginomai) which is translated as "to cause to be or to come into existence." - certainly nothing to do with removal. The "he who now letteth will let" is the HS, and "until he be taken out of the way" refers to the Anitchrist coming into existence, not the removal of the HS. Out of the way (v.7) is the Greek word (mesos) which translates as "to come forth." I will be back later to examine my post for any errors, but I can assure you that you are incorrect with your view. Love, Madeline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 5dumplings@home Posted August 10, 2007 Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 Haven't had much time to study since I'm at work. But what does Pentecost have to do with 2 Thess. 2:6? The Holy Spirit NOW indwells all true believers and will be removed in the sense that the "body of believers" will be absent from the earth, not the Holy Spirit. You have your Greek mixed up. The Greek word "taken" in v. 7 is (ginomai) which is translated as "to cause to be or to come into existence." - certainly nothing to do with removal. The "he who now letteth will let" is the HS, and "until he be taken out of the way" refers to the Anitchrist coming into existence, not the removal of the HS. Out of the way (v.7) is the Greek word (mesos) which translates as "to come forth." I will be back later to examine my post for any errors, but I can assure you that you are incorrect with your view. Love, Madeline 2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. until he be taken out of the way refers back to he who now letteth. The antichrist isn't going to be taken away at that point. He will just be coming on the scene. Verse 8 says that after he is taken out of the way the wicked will be revealed. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Madeline Posted August 10, 2007 Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. until he be taken out of the way refers back to he who now letteth. The antichrist isn't going to be taken away at that point. He will just be coming on the scene. Verse 8 says that after he is taken out of the way the wicked will be revealed. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed... Can an Omnipresent spirit be removed? Where would it go? Did you study the meaning behind the phrase "Ye know what withholdeth"? and how it is used in the context of that passage? What does the Pentecost have to do with the fact that this is a future reference concerning HS indwelled believers? Ok, now let's look at the plain context. Ye know what withholdeth literally means "restrains," the same word translated "letteth" in verse 7. The restrainer, who will restrain sin throughout the church age until "He be taken out of the way," that is, until His "restraining" influence is removed, not Him. This will occur at the rapture of thet church. The presence of the Holy Spirit in this world to some extent restrains evil. Often this is accomplished through the presence of Christians who are the "salt of the earth" (Matt. 5:13). At the rapture, when Christians are "removed" and the age of the Holy Spirit ceases, the restraining ministry will be "taken out of the way" during the Great Tribulation, not the Holy Spirit Himself. I'm in a rush...more later. Love, Madeline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry Posted August 10, 2007 Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 Let's not redefine the passage by changing the wording. It says: 2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. That makes it pretty plain that it is talking about the Holy Spirit as a person, not His influence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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