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      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Home Churches?


Lee-Anne
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Bro. Smith, you are absolutely correct.

Wilchbla,
What are the pro's to the Home church movement? It is unscriptural so I don't see any pros.

Again, the definition of a home church is not a church meeting in a home.


How is a home church unscriptural? In some countries this is the only place they can get together.

One pro is that we are not bound to meet in some church or "temple" like it was somekind of holy building. To the believer it's just a building and that's it. So in that case there's liberty in Christ. One con is that a lot of times home churches are started by someone who is trying to draw folks away from the local churches because he wants to rule the flock.

I Corinthians 16:19- The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.
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That is not a home church, that is a church meeting in a home. You may want to read the rest of this thread to learn what a home church is.

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That is not a home church' date=' that is a church meeting in a home. You may want to read the rest of this thread to learn what a home church is.[/quote']

Yes, I know what you are talking about. This is why I said one of the cons is that you may have someone trying to draw disciples after himself. Usually someone who has a beef with the pastor or who despises authority. But I still heard of churches that started like this (in the home) without an official pastor until they moved into a building and found one. I went to a regular church (one that meet in a building) and we were without a pastor for a long time. We couldn't find anyone to fill the postion. So some of the men took turns leading the service. I guarantee you'll find believers in different parts of the world that meet in homes and don't have a pastor and/or deacon.
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The home church movement does not believe in a pastor. They hold to a patriarchal system in which the father is the priest. They do not recognize the local church. There is no pro to this, it is contrary to scripture.

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Please be careful what is meant by the "home chuch movement".
While door knocking last week, my wife and I ran into someone who claimed that God was not working through the local churches any more. At first, she seemed to have a little more Bible knowledge than people we usually meet, but when she quoted II Cor. 6:17 for her reason for not attending ANY church, red flags went up.
Then, this past Sunday, a lady from our church brought a tract that was on display at a Gospel music concert titled: Does God Love You?. This was published by Family Radio (not to be confused with American Family Radio). I did an internet search on this and found out that it is the teachings of Harold Camping. He also has set a date for the rapture, does not believe in eternal punishment for the lost, and is calvinistic on the doctrines of salvation.
Beware of this false prophet.
ELI

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Though God is never the author of confusion or rebellion, we must be mindful that the early church, the churches in other lands, persecuted countries, new church plants (sometimes,) and regular American churches still practice the house/home church. Of course the Lord wants God ordained authority and structure, but this can be done in the home/house church. Consider the following so we'll have a scriptural grounds of approach:

Rom 16:5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

1Co 16:19 The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.

Col 4:15 Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.

Phm 1:2 And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house:

Notice all these groups that were considered "the church" that met "in their house." We must be careful to not let our Americana and 21st century perspective keep us from seeing the validity of this type of assembly. We are so used to meeting at the "church building" that we often (and we've all heard it,) consider that building "the church." This is what gives the assembly in the former Communist block nations, that met often, in the woods so refreshing. No program, no pews, just the bible, prayer, singing from a heart filled with the joy of the Lord, worship, and most imporantly of all...the Christ of "his church." They lacked nothing. Instead of programs, positions, and prominence it was prayer, power, and persecution. They flourished. I'm not one with persecution complex, I do not desire that for our nation and her churches, but in light of the prevailing attitudes, we had better reexamine this mode and it's benefits. So before we prejudice ourselves with a view that depicts the fresh, N.T. house assembly as a group of malcontents who cannot submit to church authority, let's remember those who do this because they could no longer prosper in the environment that has been promoted in many N.T. institutional churches.

1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Bro. Ben

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Though God is never the author of confusion or rebellion, we must be mindful that the early church, the churches in other lands, persecuted countries, new church plants (sometimes,) and regular American churches still practice the house/home church. Of course the Lord wants God ordained authority and structure, but this can be done in the home/house church. Consider the following so we'll have a scriptural grounds of approach:

Rom 16:5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

1Co 16:19 The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.

Col 4:15 Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.

Phm 1:2 And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house:

Notice all these groups that were considered "the church" that met "in their house." We must be careful to not let our Americana and 21st century perspective keep us from seeing the validity of this type of assembly. We are so used to meeting at the "church building" that we often (and we've all heard it,) consider that building "the church." This is what gives the assembly in the former Communist block nations, that met often, in the woods so refreshing. No program, no pews, just the bible, prayer, singing from a heart filled with the joy of the Lord, worship, and most imporantly of all...the Christ of "his church." They lacked nothing. Instead of programs, positions, and prominence it was prayer, power, and persecution. They flourished. I'm not one with persecution complex, I do not desire that for our nation and her churches, but in light of the prevailing attitudes, we had better reexamine this mode and it's benefits. So before we prejudice ourselves with a view that depicts the fresh, N.T. house assembly as a group of malcontents who cannot submit to church authority, let's remember those who do this because they could no longer prosper in the environment that has been promoted in many N.T. institutional churches.

1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Bro. Ben


:amen:
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In our area there is a growing faction that wrongfully believe that God has called them out of the Church,and they are part of the universal Church. It is alarming, the 'universal church' is not an assembly of believers they do not meet (assemble themselves together) this is against scripture. God calls us to assemble together to worship. I do believe in a universal Church but that will be in Heaven. And it will be a great time of worship to God.

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In our area there is a growing faction that wrongfully believe that God has called them out of the Church' date='and they are part of the universal Church. It is alarming, the 'universal church' is not an assembly of believers they do not meet (assemble themselves together) this is against scripture. God calls us to assemble together to worship. I do believe in a universal Church but that will be in Heaven. And it will be a great time of worship to God.[/quote']

:amen:
The point is not that they are meeting in their house but rather that they devorce themselves from the authority of the local church.
God set up local assemblies for our benifit and to deviate from that is to slight his perfect plan.
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I distinction between the modern American "home church movement" and "churches who are meeting in homes" has been made several times in this thread.

I really wonder sometimes whether the continued half-on-target-half-off banter is from lack of reading all written, reading comprehension problems, or a desire to just be argumentative.

Not intended to be mean, but it seems frequent.

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Though God is never the author of confusion or rebellion, we must be mindful that the early church, the churches in other lands, persecuted countries, new church plants (sometimes,) and regular American churches still practice the house/home church. Of course the Lord wants God ordained authority and structure, but this can be done in the home/house church. Consider the following so we'll have a scriptural grounds of approach:

Rom 16:5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

1Co 16:19 The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.

Col 4:15 Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.
Preacher Ben;
.

1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Bro. Ben
Thankyou for you imput. I do agree with you. However, my expeience with the Home church movement here in Western Australia is that it is largely made up of disgruntled "x church members" of one form or another. Several people whom we know, are now attending home fellowships and have had problems with church authority in one form or another. I am sure there are some wonderful home churches. I can see that the fellowship has the potentional to be wonderul. When my husband Pastored a smaller church our fellowship was wonderful and we frequently met in our home.
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I distinction between the modern American "home church movement" and "churches who are meeting in homes" has been made several times in this thread.

I really wonder sometimes whether the continued half-on-target-half-off banter is from lack of reading all written, reading comprehension problems, or a desire to just be argumentative.

Not intended to be mean, but it seems frequent.


Sometimes posts get buried in threads.
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Thankyou for you imput. I do agree with you. However, my expeience with the Home church movement here in Western Australia is that it is largely made up of disgruntled "x church members" of one form or another. Several people whom we know, are now attending home fellowships and have had problems with church authority in one form or another. I am sure there are some wonderful home churches. I can see that the fellowship has the potentional to be wonderul. When my husband Pastored a smaller church our fellowship was wonderful and we frequently met in our home.


My question is what happens if "the church authority" falls apart in your area. Say the Pastor is nothing but a fornicating, money grubbing egotist. This has happened in some areas. Some of the folks who live down South don't realize how bad things are up North. Sherburne, NY has NO bible believing churches. It has one Baptist church (American Baptist if I remember right) and the Pastor just went to jail for running off with a 15 year old girl in the congregation. Now, those folks who are saved in that area, where do they go to church? Please don't say, "Let them travel 40 miles to the nearest church" which is what you'd have to do. This will work for a time but in EVERY CASE that I've heard of folks having to do this it never lasts. It's hard to fellowship with people that far away.
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I am really sorry to hear this. :badday: People are not perfect and unfortunately Pastors and church members all have feet of clay. There is no "perfect" Pastor or church ( I am not excusing gross sin by the way ). These situations are different. It is terribly sad to hear of Pastors who fall into deep sin, as well as church members. That is one of the reasons why God gave us the local church; so we could pray, care and encourage one another. As the wife of a Pastor, I know my husband needs my prayers. He is just a man. He is not super human. He did seek to become Pastor. The Lord led him and he simply obeyed. My concern is simply one of biblical authority. I do believe if there is a sound Bible believing; preaching church then we should attend there. I am not talking about a building either. That sound Bible believing church may meet in a home.

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My question is what happens if "the church authority" falls apart in your area. Say the Pastor is nothing but a fornicating' date=' money grubbing egotist. This has happened in some areas. Some of the folks who live down South don't realize how bad things are up North. Sherburne, NY has NO bible believing churches. It has one Baptist church (American Baptist if I remember right) and the Pastor just went to jail for running off with a 15 year old girl in the congregation.[/quote']
Wilchbla, I'm so sorry to hear about this. Have you been able to find a way to gather likeminded believers for weekly worship in some way?


I don't know what your options are, but, just to encourage you, I'll say that our family (here in the South, no less!) drives an hour to get to church. We attend all services and most activities. We spend all day Sunday at the church; we take walks, play, read, practice instruments, and nap right at the church building. We've been doing this for seven years now, and don't plan on stopping. We love our church and have developed so many lasting friendships there. If we can do it with a gas-guzzling Suburban and five kids aged 11 and under with all their accoutrements, then maybe you could, too!
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Just as there are many false "local churches", there will also be many false "home churches". I don't think anyone here supports the establishment of false home churches or the support of false local churches.

Sadly, as has been mentioned, in some areas there simply are no biblical local churches to attend. Some folks are able to drive long distances to a good church but many are not. It's always best to have a truly local church; whether one that's already established or beginning a new one; whether in someones home or elsewhere.

Whether a folks are gathering in a home or in an established local church, the important thing is that it's led of God, not of man. Over the last two or three decades our local Methodist church has experienced several splits. Some of these have resulted in folks meeting at home until they found a new church home, started a new church or reconciled with the Methodist church.

When we looked for a new church home we were so totally overwhelmed at how far away so many area churches have fallen. It took us a long time to find a new church home; sadly none of the Baptist churches within a 60 mile radius were fit to attend. Thankfully the Lord led us to a conservative independent church that is pastored by a wonderful man of God who attended Baptist seminary. This church has been independent since its founding in the 1800s so it's not one of those often-spoken of modern independent churches which simply seeks to "do their own thing"; our church is governed by the Word of God and our pastor stands firm on the fundamentals of the faith.

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I know He will do it dispite our prayers, but let's pray that the Lord be glorified in His beautiful bride, the church, in these troublesome times whether they meet in homes, or a dedicated "church" building. People need Christ and each other.

Bro. Ben

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I know He will do it dispite our prayers, but let's pray that the Lord be glorified in His beautiful bride, the church, in these troublesome times whether they meet in homes, or a dedicated "church" building. People need Christ and each other.

Bro. Ben


:pray :amen:
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Now, those folks who are saved in that area, where do they go to church? Please don't say, "Let them travel 40 miles to the nearest church" which is what you'd have to do. This will work for a time but in EVERY CASE that I've heard of folks having to do this it never lasts. It's hard to fellowship with people that far away.

It's usually about priorities and commitment.
I have been saved for over 30 years. During that time I have been a member of three different Independent Baptist Churches. Sometimes I had to drive over thirty miles to go to church. Was always there with my family whenever the services or activities were scheduled. If it got to be too much of an expense or a problem with time attending faithfully, we would simply move closer to the church. If necessary, I would change jobs. After all, aren't we supposed to be pilgrims and strangers down here?
It seems that too may people have higher priorities on keeping a nicer house or having a better job than being in God's will about Hebrews 10:24,25.


ELI
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It's usually about priorities and commitment.


This is true, but some would see their first priority to the Lord in their personal relationship, their spouse,thier family, and then the church. We need to think about our jobs and homes as they relate to food on the table and a roof over the heads of the ones that the Lord has made us responsible for.

I have been saved for over 30 years. During that time I have been a member of three different Independent Baptist Churches. Sometimes I had to drive over thirty miles to go to church. Was always there with my family whenever the services or activities were scheduled. If it got to be too much of an expense or a problem with time attending faithfully, we would simply move closer to the church.


In the days were living in, and current economic conditions, it is "not so simple" to simply move closer. The housing market is a bust and they are not moving very fast. Yes, if it's God's will, He'll make it happen, but if He doesn't then what?

If necessary, I would change jobs. After all, aren't we supposed to be pilgrims and strangers down here?
It seems that too may people have higher priorities on keeping a nicer house or having a better job than being in God's will about Hebrews 10:24,25.


Again, many are thankful to have the job they have, changing is very risky. The bottom line is, as this relates to home/house churching, if it is God's will and leadership, you are in good shape, otherwise, He will make His way known and provision will be there.
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    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 0 replies
    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 1 reply
    • Razor

      Psalms 139 Psalm 139:9-10
      9. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10. even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy righthand shall hold me. 
       
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West  »  Pastor Scott Markle

      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
      I really do not know where you are going with this. The Bible itself has revelations and prophecies and not all revelations are prophecies.
      Paul had things revealed to him that were hid and unknown that the Gentiles would be fellow heirs.
      How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:3-9
      And I do not mean this as a Hyper-dispensationalist would, for there were people in Christ before Paul (Rom. 16:7). This is not prophecy for there are none concerning the Church age in the O.T..
      Israel rejected the New Wine (Jesus Christ) and said the Old Wine (law) was better, had they tasted the New Wine there would be no church age or mystery as spoken above. to be revealed.
      It was a revealed mystery. Sure there are things concerning the Gentiles after the this age. And we can now see types in the Old Testament (Boaz and Ruth) concerning a Gentile bride, but this is hindsight.
      Peter could have had a ham sandwich in Acts 2, but he did not know it till later, by revelation. But this has nothing to do with 1John 2;23 and those 10 added words in italics. Where did they get them? Did the violate Pro. 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Where did they get this advance revelation? Was it from man, God or the devil?
        I just read your comment and you bypassed what I wrote concerning book arrangement, chapters being added and verse numberings and such. There is no scripture support for these either, should we reject these?
      Happy New Year
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West

      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
      SCRIPTURAL MARY

      I WALK NOT ON WATER NOR CHANGE IT TO WINE
      SO HEARKEN O’ SINNER TO THIS STORY OF MINE
      I, AM A DAUGHTER OF ABRAHAM SINNER BY BIRTH
      A HAND MAID OF LOW ESTATE USED HERE ON EARTH
      MY HAIR IS NOT GENTILE BLOND, I HAVE NOT EYES OF BLUE
      A MOTHER OF MANY CHILDREN A DAUGHTER OF A JEW
      FOR JOSEPH MY HUSBAND DID HONOUR OUR BED
      TO FATHER OUR CHILDREN WHO NOW ARE ALL DEAD
      BUT I SPEAK NOT OF THESE WHO I LOVED SO WELL
      BUT OF THE FIRST BORN WHICH SAVED ME FROM HELL
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               2
      WHEN I WAS A VIRGIN UNKNOWN BY MAN
      THE ANGEL OF GOD SPOKE OF GOD’S PLAN
      FOR I HAD BEEN CHOSEN A FAVOUR VESSEL OF CLAY
      TO BARE THE SON OF THE HIGHEST BY AN UNUSUAL WAY
      FOR THE SCRIPTURE FORETOLD OF WHAT WAS TO BE
      SO MY WOMB GOD FILLED WHEN HE OVER SHADOW ME
      BUT THE LAW OF MOSES DID DEMAND MY LIFE
      WOULD JOSEPH MY BETROTHED MAKE ME HIS WIFE
      I THOUGHT ON THESE THINGS WITH SO NEEDLESS FEARS
      BUT A DREAM HE RECEIVED ENDED ALL FEARS
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                              3
      THEN MY SOUL DID REJOICE IN GOD MY SAVIOR
      HE SCATTERED THE PROUD AND BLESS ME WITH FAVOR
      O’ THE RICH ARE EMPTY, THE HUNGRY HAVE GOOD THINGS
      FOR THE THRONE OF DAVID WOULD HAVE JESUS THE KING
      BUT BEFORE I DELIVERED THE MAN CHILD OF OLD
      CAESAR WITH TAXES DEMANDED OUR GOLD
      TO THE CITY OF DAVID JOSEPH AND I WENT
      ON A BEAST OF BURDEN OUR STRENGTH NEAR SPEND
      NO ROOM AT An INN, BUT A STABLE WAS FOUND
      WITH STRAW AND DUNG LAID ON THE GROUND
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
                                                  4
      MY MATRIX WAS OPEN IN A PLACE SO PROFANE
      FROM THE GLORY OF GLORIES TO A BEGGAR’S DOMAIN
      SO WE WRAPPED THE CHILD GIVEN TO THE HEATHEN A STRANGER
      NO REPUTATION IS SOUGHT TO BE BORN IN A MANGER
      HIS STAR WAS ABOVE US THE HOST OF HEAVEN DID SING
      FOR SHEPHERDS AND WISE MEN WORSHIP ONLY THE KING
      BUT HEROD THAT DEVIL SOUGHT FOR HIS SOUL
      AND MURDER RACHEL’S CHILDREN UNDER TWO YEARS OLD
      BUT JOSEPH MY HUSBAND WAS WARNED IN A DREAM
      SO WE FLED INTO EGYPT BECAUSE OF HIS SCHEME
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               5
      SO THE GIVER OF LIFE, THE ROCK OF ALL AGES
      GREW UP TO FULFILL THE HOLY PAGES
      HE PREACH WITH AUTHORITY LIKE NONE BEFORE
      PLEASE TRUST HIS WORDS AND NOT THE GREAT WHORE
      HER BLACK ROBE PRIEST FILL THEIR LIPS WITH MY NAME
      WITH BLASPHEMOUS PRAISE, DAMMATION AND SHAME
      THERE ARE NO NAIL PRINTS IN MY HANDS, MY BODY DID NOT ARISE
      NOR, AM A DEMON OF FATIMA FLOATING IN THE SKY
      THERE IS NO DEITY IN MY VEINS FOR ADAM CAME FROM SOD
      FOR I, AM, MOTHER OF THE SON OF MAN NOT THE MOTHER OF GOD
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
      6
      FOR MY SOUL WAS PURCHASED BY GOD UPON THE CROSS
      FOR MY SINS HE DID SUFFER AN UNMEASURABLE COST
      I WILL NOT STEAL HIS GLORY WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD
      ENDURING SPIT AND THORNS PLACED ON HIS HEAD
      YET, IF YOU WISH TO HONOR ME THEN GIVE ME NONE AT ALL
      BUT TRUST THE LAMB WHO STOOL IN PILATE’S HALL
      CALL NOT ON THIS REDEEMED WOMAN IN YOUR TIME OF FEAR
      FOR I WILL NOT GIVE ANSWER NEITHER WILL I HEAR
      AND WHEN THE BOOKS ARE OPEN AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE
      I AMEN YOUR DAMNATION THAT TRUST NOT HIM ALONE
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, O’ SINNER TRUST ME NOT

                       WRITTEN BY BRO. WEST
       
      · 0 replies
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