Gap Theory Refuted

[LAF]

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life

[Jerry]

The word dinosaur simply means large/giant lizard. If people lived 800-900 or so years before the flood, the animals could have easily done so to - as mankind was not allowed to eat animals for food, and no animals were eating each other, according to Genesis 9. All reptiles continue to grow until they die - if they lived 900 years, they would get very large!

And has already been stated, there was no death before Adam and Eve sinned.

The Bible does not mention a gap at all - it is just liberal theologians and evolutionists trying to force it in there. Don't follow in their apostate footsteps.

P.S. the verses that refer to a day being like 1000 years are NOT referring to creation at all. Take them in context. In 2 Peter it is referring to why God is seemingly delaying His return, and Psalm 90 is referring to the lifespan of man - 1000 years does not affect God at all. He is not limited or hindered by time.

One of the biggest "reasons" given for any kind of gap theory is because that is "supposedly" when Satan rebelled from Heaven. For one, if God didn't destroy the earth when man sinned, why would He need to when angels sinned? Two, Ezekiel 28 teaches that Satan was walking in the Garden of Eden BEFORE he sinned - therefore disproving any prior fall. Plus, as has been adequately shown in other threads, all that is in Heaven and earth (that includes angels) was created in those six days - angels would have had to have been created on day one or two (before the foundations of the earth were laid).

There is no room for a gap at all between verses 1-2 of Genesis 1. The first verse gives a summary statement, the rest of the chapter describes what happened.

P.S.S. All fossil fuels and fossils (dead dinos and animal matter) are adequately explained by the flood - there is no need to try to fit them in prior to that time (for those who try to teach this: any physical evidence of a "prior destruction" would have been destroyed in the flood anyway! - but there is no proof, just umpteen theories).

[Tootle]

The word dinosaur simply means large/giant lizard.

That's its etymology, but not what the word means. Compound words formed from foreign languages don't necessarily mean what the original words would mean in the context of the original language; nor are the sometimes fanciful names used to describe living things necessarily descriptive of biological realities. For instance, the sea cow is not really a four-legged hooved animal that chews cud in the ocean, Acherontia styx medusa is not really a winged Gorgon moth from the Greek underworld, etc. They're names, identifiers, not descriptions.

What dinosaur means is any member of the superorder Dinosauria, or sometimes the clade Dinosauria. It depends on whether you like to group creatures using traditional taxonomy or cladistics. In neither system are dinosaurs actually lizards.

If people lived 800-900 or so years before the flood, the animals could have easily done so to - as mankind was not allowed to eat animals for food, and no animals were eating each other, according to Genesis 9. All reptiles continue to grow until they die - if they lived 900 years, they would get very large!

The rate of a reptile's growth slows drastically once it reaches adult age, and growth of any organism depends on its environment. Given an infinite amount of time, an ever-growing animal will eventually reach an equilibrium point in which it simply cannot digest enough food to produce new growth; everything it eats will go to maintaining its current size.

One must also consider the existence of fossilized dinosaur eggs. Some of them are very big, bigger than any modern reptile eggs. Obviously some species of dinosaurs were very big reptiles even as babies.

P.S.S. All fossil fuels and fossils (dead dinos and animal matter) are adequately explained by the flood - there is no need to try to fit them in prior to that time (for those who try to teach this: any physical evidence of a "prior destruction" would have been destroyed in the flood anyway! - but there is no proof, just umpteen theories).

How does the flood explain fossil fuels? If it does, could we not reproduce flood conditions over a limited portion of the Earth and generate new fossil fuels at will? Are any of the energy companies doing research into this?

[heartstrings]

One must also consider the existence of fossilized dinosaur eggs. Some of them are very big, bigger than any modern reptile eggs. quote]
Very good point.

You hear stories of "Mokele Mbembe" hiding out in the Congo and "Nessie" in Loch Ness, but no one has produced any documented proof of a living dinosaur resembling anything close to a T-Rex, Diplodocus, Stegasaurus, Tricerotops, Brachiosaurus etc. etc.. "Nessie has NEVER been proven to exist either. These things are long gone, Jerry.

"and the earth was without form and void"
Why would God create anything "without form"
Something must have happened to it.

[LAF]

I just believe what God said ,he says in the Bible that he created the earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th .

[John81]

God created the earth as a blank slate, so to speak, then like an artist he began adding to it what He wanted there.

There is abundant evidence that man and dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time. There are several footprints of humans and dinosaurs having walked in the same place at approximately the same time.

Look at some of the drawings of ancient civilizations, such as those in South America (and others) which clearly show humans and various species of dinosaurs together, with the humans sometimes hunting them.

[John the Baptist]

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The word "hayah" in this verse is in the Qal perfect and means "was without form and void", it does not mean "became."

Silow Baxter and others says "hayah means "Became" but it does not. Baxter Says this to accomadate the evolutionary time scale with the Bible.


The Word "yom" for day in the context refers to a 24 hour day.

[rancher824]

Rancher,
Where, in the book of Job, does it say that Satan went to Heaven? Do you see the word "Heaven" in the passage? Read it. It's like hearing "streets of gold" everyday on every other gospel song. There are no "streets" of gold there is only one street....it's singular. Read your Bible. In the Book of Job, it simply says the "sons of God" came to present themselves "before the Lord". Do a search on "before the Lord" and see what you find. Abraham was "before the Lord", Moses was "before the Lord". Where did Moses and Abraham do this? In Heaven?

What did Jesus say that He saw, in Luke 10:18?
It says I beheld Satan as lightning fall from Heaven. "Beheld" is past tense.
Jesus created the Universe my friend. So He was there whenever it happened and it happened sometime in the past.

DaveW,
All we know is that sometime in the past, God created "dinosaurs", whatever you want to call them. Contrary to what "Dr" Hovind says, I do not believe they coexisted with mankind and certainly don't believe they were saved on Noah's ark. So, what happened to them? God knew we would find their remains, He knew we would question.
At this point, I can only assume that God destroyed them for whatever reason He had for doing so.

Wow, did I ever get it, lol. Ok first off, when satan came before God, God ask from "whence comest thou". Satan's answer was "from going to and fro in the earth." To me this says that he is not approaching God while still in the earth, but actualy coming into the presence of God. I am sure you will tear me apart on that statement, but you can believe as you please on whether he was in heaven in the days of Job.
Second, I do realize he created everything. He says he did. The Bible teaches he did. If you will "Study" , as you said I should do, you will see that in Genesis chapter 1 he says he created the world and everything in it in 6 days, and on the 7th he rested. To put a gap, discredits the Bible.
You said in an erlier post
"Brotherman,
Are you assuming that "beginning of creation" means "day one" BEFORE God said "let there be light"? On what day was man created?
Was man created before God said "let there be light"?
Mark 10:6 must mean the time when man was created because man was not made on day one."

I work as a carpenter. I work on many houses from the beginning. I help on some from the ground up, others I come in a little later. If I say I have been in on a house from the very beginning, does not mean I was there when they staked it off. I may not have gotten there for a week or two afterward. But it is still from the beginning. The house I am working on right now has been lived in. we are remodeling it. I have not worked on it from the beginning. If there is a gap, God did not create man in the beginning, but in the remodeling.
Third, back to satan's fall. I give you that Christ said he "beheld" in the past since. Does that mean that every time something was seen in the past tense in scripture has already happened? Think about that for a moment. If it has already been seen it has already happened. Now look to the book of Revelation. I cannot quote them all, because it is full of John saying that he saw in the past tense. Has the book of Revelation already happened? No. Now look at chapter 12:3-4. We here find satan drawing a third of the angels of heaven and casting them to the earth. How can this be if he was cast out of heaven, unable to return, before the time of Job? What was Christ saying? If you will look at Luke 10:17 with verse 18 it makes since. "And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name." They were amazed at what they were seeing happen. Jesus, being God the creator, told them he in his infinite knowledge had seen the end and satan being defeated in the last days. Yes he has always been, but he also has full kowledge of what will come to pass. Isn't that a wonderful fact. For if he could not see what will happen, he could not have planned before the foundations of the world that he would die for the sins we had not yet commited.

Bro. Jerry, I agree with you completely that the verse I used would be out of context for proving a gap true or false. I was trying to say that it did not fit, so that others would not try to make it fit. I am sorry it came across as me taking a verse out of context.

[Jerry]

Bro. Jerry' date=' I agree with you completely that the verse I used would be out of context for proving a gap true or false. I was trying to say that it did not fit, so that others would not try to make it fit. I am sorry it came across as me taking a verse out of context.[/quote']

No problem - I was just clarifying the context. There are many that do take those verses out of context for one reason or another.

[DaveW]

The Bible mentions "Leviathan" and "Behemoth" and gives brief descriptions of them.

If you check them out they do not match the 'normal' guesses of elephant, hippo etc.

There have also been many indicators of societies through the ages making reference to cretures that fit the idea of a dinosaur better than any other know creature - chinese dragons, the dragons of Europe.
The last dragon killed in England as depicted by lithograph in the Funk and Wagnals encyclopedia (of many years ago - a few too many! :puzzled: ) showed a knight (St Geaorge I think) facing up to a dragon which looked very much like a small horse sized quarduped type dinosaur, of the general type that people would know as the brontosaurus. (just obviously much smaller)

Many african, south american etc tribal peoples have legends of creatures that resemble one form of dinosaur or other.

There are carvings and 'cave paintings' that depict creatures that are obviously dinosaur like.

Why is it exactly that you are so sure that dinosaurs and people did not co-exist?

[heartstrings]

........Ok first off' date=' when satan came before God, God ask from "whence comest thou". Satan's answer was "from going to and fro in the earth." To me this says that he is not approaching God while still in the earth, but actualy coming into the presence of God.[/quote']

I believe that the language of the Bible is precise. Had Satan answered "from the earth", then there would be no question that Satan left earth. But it does not say that. Satan states what he was DOING in the earth. Had he said "From going to and from the earth", that would also leave no question that he was leaving the earth and returning. But you have that little two letter word "IN" to contend with.
If you, Jerry and myself meet in Atlanta, Georgia and you ask me, "where did you come from?", and I say "I've been hauling freight across the country". I've been traveling "to and fro" across the US but all three of us met in Atlanta. We are still in the US. Satan came "from going to and fro", that is where he came from. Where was he doing that? In the earth.

Satan did not need to leave earth. God is everywhere, even in Hell, the Bible says.
I beleive those "sons of God", in the Book of Job, were believers in the true and living God....human beings....They came "before the Lord" just like Moses and Abraham did and the devil came along, just like he does when you get in your prayer closet. "evil is present with me" like Paul said.
He can influence my mind, but he can't touch my inner man. Is this part of what the Book of Job is telling us? Is brother Job also a picture of the inner man, born of the Spirit? The Bible says Job "sinned not with his lips". My flesh can sin but my inner man cannot sin, the Bible says.

Here's another intriguing thing I noticed about Satan's answer. This is my THEORY....OK??
Satan says; "walking up and down in it"(the earth)
"Earth" is a picture of a person's heart. "Walking" is a picture of "manner of life" is it not?
Satan can not only come and go(to and fro) as he pleases, in a person's heart, but he "walks up and down" He can appear as blatant sin, and he can appear as an "angel of light". 2 Corinthians 11:13-15.
What is Satan's profession? Going to and fro and walking? Nope. His goal is temptation. Sometimes when he tempts us, he "walks the low road" and we know that it's evil and wrong. But other times when he tempts, he "walks the high road". The Bible says "there is a way that seemeth right....."







I highly suspect that the events in the Revelation are both past and future.

[heartstrings]

The Bible mentions "Leviathan" and "Behemoth" and gives brief descriptions of them.

If you check them out they do not match the 'normal' guesses of elephant, hippo etc.

If you mean it's "tail moveth like a cedar", moving like a cedar is not the same as being as big as a cedar. How does a cedar move? In a good wind, it rocks back and forth in a more or less VERTICAL position. How does an elephant's tail move? Kind of rocks back and forth, hanging down in a vertical position don't it? How would a "brontosaurus" tall move? Kind of like in a HORIZONTAL positon right? Did the Shunamite girl have a neck big as a tower? No it also says her neck was "LIKE a tower". Song of Solomon 4:4 The Bible don't say "big as a cedar...says "moveth like a cedar".

There have also been many indicators of societies through the ages making reference to cretures that fit the idea of a dinosaur better than any other know creature - chinese dragons, the dragons of Europe.
The last dragon killed in England as depicted by lithograph in the Funk and Wagnals encyclopedia (of many years ago - a few too many! :puzzled: ) showed a knight (St Geaorge I think) facing up to a dragon which looked very much like a small horse sized quarduped type dinosaur, of the general type that people would know as the brontosaurus. (just obviously much smaller)

All of the medieval "dragons" are myths my friend, just like "unicorns" and by that I mean the white horses with horns. Had there been any real dragons in medieval times, someone would have certainly found some non-fossilized bones somewhere.

Many african, south american etc tribal peoples have legends of creatures that resemble one form of dinosaur or other.

But we can only assume they are just legends until someone finds proof that they exist. Somebody captures or kills one......I'm a believer.

There are carvings and 'cave paintings' that depict creatures that are obviously dinosaur like.

I would like to see those paintings.

Why is it exactly that you are so sure that dinosaurs and people did not co-exist?

[Tootle]

The Bible mentions "Leviathan" and "Behemoth" and gives brief descriptions of them.

If you check them out they do not match the 'normal' guesses of elephant, hippo etc.

We may never know what animals were being described by the words behemoth and leviathan, if they really were meant to describe a specific animal. But the hippopotamus is a better guess than the sauropod, or Kent Hovind's aquatic T. rex. (Years ago he claimed Leviathan was a Tyrannosaurus that spent its life swimming about in the water.)

There have also been many indicators of societies through the ages making reference to cretures that fit the idea of a dinosaur better than any other know creature - chinese dragons, the dragons of Europe.

Lots of primitive societies have come up with dozens of fanciful creatures. See the medieval bestiary here for some examples. Some of them may resemble dinosaurs. This could be coincidence; given enough fanciful creatures, some will resemble real ones. It could be due to the ancients discovering dinosaur bones and attempting to reconstruct them the best way they knew how. It's probably not evidence of men and non-avian dinosaurs interacting in modern times.

The last dragon killed in England as depicted by lithograph in the Funk and Wagnals encyclopedia (of many years ago - a few too many! :puzzled: ) showed a knight (St Geaorge I think) facing up to a dragon which looked very much like a small horse sized quarduped type dinosaur, of the general type that people would know as the brontosaurus. (just obviously much smaller)

St. George was a Roman from Anatolia who killed a dragon in Libya. The legend was brought back to England and he was made England's patron saint, but he didn't kill the dragon there.

[Jerry]

What does it matter when certain creatures were killed? Either way, in Genesis 1, man and all land beasts were created on the same day (day six). Sea creatures and all fowl were created on day five.

[John81]

The Creation Network, and others, have examples of ancient artwork which CLEARLY shows dinosaurs. There is nothing "fanciful" about these, they are clearly dinosaurs, clearly interacting with humans, and hundreds of years before dinosaurs were "discovered" by scientists looking at bones.