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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Children In The Church Service


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At what age did you all expect your children to be able to sit in a sermon and pay attention well enough to be able to tell you what it was about so that you knew they were indeed paying attention? How did you go about training them to pay attention? I am asking because I am wondering if I'm expecting too much, too little or about right out of my kids.

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Our son joined us in the evening services when he turned 3. The morning service at 5. That didn't mean he would understand everything, but he could begin = at 3, to learn to sit still, and start learning more songs. My hubby would question him about what he heard and we would kind of discuss it - more as he grew older. When he was able to write, he started taking "notes." He would write down each time certain words were said in the message. He had to listen in order to catch them all.

I think each child would be different as to the age that they could really start listening and understanding, but beginning the steps early is a good idea.

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3 1/2 - Sat through Wed service
4 - Sat through all services (except Sun AM-Junior Church)

By age 5, I expected them to learn at least 1 factual thing.

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My five year-old started sitting in church with us about two months ago, while he was still four. He is exceptionally alert, but usually only pays attention for about ten minutes after the song service ends. He knows he has to sit still, and does a really good job at it. Occasionally mid-sermon, if the pastor uses an illustration or is exceptionally dynamic - he will still be listening. On three occasions, I've had him ask me questions about the sermon on the drive home. That is encouraging.

Last Sunday night, he turned to me during the invitation and whispered, "God loves even the people who aren't in church, doesn't He?" in a matter-of-fact, rhetorical manner. It was good he was in church because this allows instances for him to ask me about God of his own accord and desire. It's like discipleship: a person who desires to learn will always go further than one who is being pressured into it.

Of course, it also probably helps that his grandpa is the pastor. :Green

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My five year-old started sitting in church with us about two months ago, while he was still four. He is exceptionally alert, but usually only pays attention for about ten minutes after the song service ends. He knows he has to sit still, and does a really good job at it. Occasionally mid-sermon, if the pastor uses an illustration or is exceptionally dynamic - he will still be listening. On three occasions, I've had him ask me questions about the sermon on the drive home. That is encouraging.

Last Sunday night, he turned to me during the invitation and whispered, "God loves even the people who aren't in church, doesn't He?" in a matter-of-fact, rhetorical manner. It was good he was in church because this allows instances for him to ask me about God of his own accord and desire. It's like discipleship: a person who desires to learn will always go further than one who is being pressured into it.

Of course, it also probably helps that his grandpa is the pastor. :Green


Aha! I am sure you're right. What a wonderful blessing that must be to your family. :thumb

I really appreciate all the comments, guys, keep them coming! What would you expect out of say, an 8yr. old? And would you have him take notes or not? My 8yr. old will not be 9 until Oct. but he is in 3rd grade.
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Aha! I am sure you're right. What a wonderful blessing that must be to your family. :thumb

I really appreciate all the comments, guys, keep them coming! What would you expect out of say, an 8yr. old? And would you have him take notes or not? My 8yr. old will not be 9 until Oct. but he is in 3rd grade.


They (my dad and my son) are both wonderful blessings, to be sure. :smile

When I was eight, I was definitely in church. Taking notes? I was never forced to learn, but the opportunity was always present. Occasionally I took notes, but that was mainly so I could rip off Pastor Oullette's sermons and use them on my family when it was my turn to give the family devotions. :lol

When I hit third grade, our school had an after-school soulwinning program. We learned the Bible and traveled on buses (under supervision, of course) and went door-to-door. I saw my first convert at age eight.
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I'd say taking notes would have to be determined by your child - does the child enjoy writing? If not, it could really distract. What we did with Josh was actually kind of his idea, but we simplified it so he could listen and not be concerned about the outline,etc. Maybe you could experiment with your child - have him listen to a sermon on tape or cd at home, and try to take notes. Then you can see if he's able to really concentrate ont he message or just on the form.

I'd say, though, that he is definitely old enough for you and your hubby to talk to him about what he learned...especially if the whole family was discussing it.

Vir - did you go to Rene Oullette's church? He speaks at our church about once a year...good preacher!

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3 1/2 - Sat through Wed service
4 - Sat through all services (except Sun AM-Junior Church)

By age 5, I expected them to learn at least 1 factual thing.


Thank you for being specific......that is what I was looking for. We have individual Sunday School classes, Jr church through 6th grade, nursery through 3yrs, and a children's program on Wed. night. The kids are with the adults for opening on Sun. am and Wed. pm. The only service they are with us completely on is Sunday Eve. as long as they are 4yrs. Sometimes I feel like that is not enough time to train them, and that the junior church "un-does" some of it because they gear it to be "fun". Is this an experience that is unique to me?
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I'd say taking notes would have to be determined by your child - does the child enjoy writing? If not, it could really distract. What we did with Josh was actually kind of his idea, but we simplified it so he could listen and not be concerned about the outline,etc. Maybe you could experiment with your child - have him listen to a sermon on tape or cd at home, and try to take notes. Then you can see if he's able to really concentrate ont he message or just on the form.

I'd say, though, that he is definitely old enough for you and your hubby to talk to him about what he learned...especially if the whole family was discussing it.

Vir - did you go to Rene Oullette's church? He speaks at our church about once a year...good preacher!


Thanks, HC, I'll give that a try. :thumb
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Thank you for being specific......that is what I was looking for. We have individual Sunday School classes, Jr church through 6th grade, nursery through 3yrs, and a children's program on Wed. night. The kids are with the adults for opening on Sun. am and Wed. pm. The only service they are with us completely on is Sunday Eve. as long as they are 4yrs. Sometimes I feel like that is not enough time to train them, and that the junior church "un-does" some of it because they gear it to be "fun". Is this an experience that is unique to me?


The ages I mentioned coincide with how our church operates. When kids get into kindergarten or turn 5, they start coming to the morning service. At three, they begin coming in to the evening services. We do have a kid's program on Thursday nights - the kids begin the service with us, and then go on to Master's Club.

Could you opt to bring your 4 or 5 year old into the Sun a.m. service.? That way they would be in two services? Personally, I think it's good for kids to be in the main service with their parents.
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Vir - did you go to Rene Oullette's church? He speaks at our church about once a year...good preacher!


If Rene Oullette = R.B. Oullette of Michigan, then yes. My father was his assistant pastor for about eight years before we moved to Florida. He was just down here a week ago, it was good to see him and his family again.
r.b._ouellette_1_wc98.jpg <----- ?
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The ages I mentioned coincide with how our church operates. When kids get into kindergarten or turn 5, they start coming to the morning service. At three, they begin coming in to the evening services. We do have a kid's program on Thursday nights - the kids begin the service with us, and then go on to Master's Club.

Could you opt to bring your 4 or 5 year old into the Sun a.m. service.? That way they would be in two services? Personally, I think it's good for kids to be in the main service with their parents.


I have seriously been considering just that. My only trepidation is that there will be some grumbling about "missing out on jr./children's church". I honestly am beginning to think that such a class is seriously hindering my kids more than it is helping. As in, it perhaps, enabling them or encouraging them to neglect spiritual food that they could otherwise tolerate by implying they aren't capable of ingesting it yet. Does that make sense? I'm so frustrated by it all.
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I have seriously been considering just that. My only trepidation is that there will be some grumbling about "missing out on jr./children's church". I honestly am beginning to think that such a class is seriously hindering my kids more than it is helping. As in' date=' it perhaps, enabling them or encouraging them to neglect spiritual food that they could otherwise tolerate by implying they aren't capable of ingesting it yet. Does that make sense? I'm so frustrated by it all.[/quote']

Well, our children's church is designed to be spiritually feeding, so I do feel for you! And I know that some would grumble...but it isn't their child! I remember one time when Josh was three, I told his children's ministry leader that we would be keeping him with us in the next service, because we didn't agree with some things she had planned. She said, "They aren't going to like that." And I told her, "Well, THEY aren't raising our son, we are." As it happened, she was the only one not happy with it, because she knew we weren't thrilled with her plans (nothing doctrinal, just a personal preference...but as parents we had the right to call it!). If 4 is the general age your church's kids join the service (even if it is usually only on the evenings), then, if your hubby is in agreement, by all means bring them into the service with you...and steel yourself to the grumbling, but be prepared to answer people straightly, if they ask, that you and your hubby believe it's the way God would have you do things. Be sweet, but they are your kids!!
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What approach would you use with the kids? Knowing, of course, that I have a 5yr, 8yr, and 11yr old all still participating. I think the hardest, though it should not be.........will be the oldest.
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What approach would you use with the kids? Knowing, of course, that I have a 5yr, 8yr, and 11yr old all still participating. I think the hardest, though it should not be.........will be the oldest.


Usually parents begin things with the oldest kids, but the reverse might be best in this situation - since your oldest doesn't have that much longer before joining you anyway. Maybe you can just let them know that you want them with you in the service, to hear your preacher. Leave the 11 year old in Jr. church for the first couple of weeks, but include him (her? don't know if it's a boy or girl) in the family discussion about what the message was. Then, after a couple of weeks, let your 11 year old that you want him/her to join your family in the service. [before you bring them with you to the service, maybe spend some time talking with them about how wonderful the "big church" service is.]

Talk to your hubby and see what he suggests. He may have some thoughts rolling around, too.

Something else you could do, before you pull them out of jr. church - maybe you or your hubby could sit in on a couple of the services so you can see exactly what they are being taught, to see if there are grounds for you to fear they aren't being spiritually fed (not saying I question you - just suggesting what you could do to eliminate all possibilities).
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Usually parents begin things with the oldest kids, but the reverse might be best in this situation - since your oldest doesn't have that much longer before joining you anyway. Maybe you can just let them know that you want them with you in the service, to hear your preacher. Leave the 11 year old in Jr. church for the first couple of weeks, but include him (her? don't know if it's a boy or girl) in the family discussion about what the message was. Then, after a couple of weeks, let your 11 year old that you want him/her to join your family in the service. [before you bring them with you to the service, maybe spend some time talking with them about how wonderful the "big church" service is.]

Talk to your hubby and see what he suggests. He may have some thoughts rolling around, too.

Something else you could do, before you pull them out of jr. church - maybe you or your hubby could sit in on a couple of the services so you can see exactly what they are being taught, to see if there are grounds for you to fear they aren't being spiritually fed (not saying I question you - just suggesting what you could do to eliminate all possibilities).


My hubby was volunteering as a helper occasionally over there first, and told me that he had concerns about the class. I witnessed it first hand not too long ago. It is hard to describe, but both my husband and I are not impressed. I'd say the cause for the majority of the concern is not the lesson (though it is nothing special or greatly detailed) as much as it is the attitude with which the group is conducted--I should say allowed to conduct themselves. It is rowdy much of the time (I had to cover my ears it was so loud when they were singing, screaming?? a couple of songs--I found it soooo obnoxious! And I have seven kids!) and so, with the addition of games, treats and the like..... instead of it being a good transition into the adult service, it stands in stark contrast and probably makes the other one look dull. Does that make sense more? It reminds me more of an AWANA program. LOL, oh, and the children's church group is NOT in the main building with the sanctuary--if it were, the "loudness" would be corrected promptly!
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"The principles that were just applied to Sunday school should also be applied to Junior church. Junior Church ought to be what it sounds like, church for juniors. Too often junior church is more like babysitting or a glorified nursery. Just as there are many ways to accomplish Sunday school, the same is true regarding Junior Church. The age group for this program is determined by the church. Some churches have bus ministries and use this time strictly for bus kids. Some churches only have four year olds through fourth grade while others go through sixth grade. The age your church uses is not important as long as your philosophy of ministry is correct. The churches I have pastored and worked with have had Junior Church for ages four through fourth grade.
Since Junior Church is simply church for juniors, it would be good to utilize this time to prepare these young people for the day they will transition to the main church service. One way to do this is to have the children participate in the song service and then dismiss them afterwards to Junior Church. This will teach the children to sit through the first half of the service. It will also give the family time to worship the Lord together on Sunday morning. In many churches, families are separated when they arrive at church and do not see each other again until it is time to go home. Joshua said ?as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.? I have always believed that a family ought to not only go to church together, but it is important for our children to see and hear their parents worshipping the Lord in song."

excerpt from my the book I am writing.

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When my kids turn 3 I start having them sit with me in the service. Although sometimes since our church is small, if the nursery is not very full, I would still put them back there during Lords Supper nights until they turn maybe 4 (or if the nursery is busy). At our church we have Sunday School and kids church though, and then a Wednesday night program during the school year (nursery for the 3 year olds) so really the only service he has to sit out is Sunday PM....and then during the summer he will sit out on Wed PM as well.

I do not allow toys, candy, or drawing because sometimes I have found it makes more noise and distraction...plus my kids have always had relatively short attention spans and I find they are MUCH better just knowing they have to sit there and listen rather than draw or color...then get bored and ask for something else to do. Although at times they have had to sit with someone else who lets them draw, and they do okay... I just think its easier not to, for my particular kids.

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I don't know if this will help. Our children have had to learn to sit still in all our services from a very young age because were in a small church and my hubby was the Pastor. :lol: At our new church we have a family that have 4 little girls ranging from 19 months to 6 and half years. They all sit quietly in church because their mum and dad have spent the time at home teaching them to sit quietly for periods of time. One of the ways they do this is they start "High chair time" around 9 to ten months old where they have to sit quietly and look at a book. At first it is only a couple of minutes and then gradually progresses up to half an hour. The children have learnt at an early age the self control of sitting still. It was done at home and not at church. So much easier on them and their children. They are beautiful girls. I have always tried to do something similar. We "Played church". I would sit my kids down with a book and pretend we were in church. It helped with my very active boy.

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    • Bro. West  »  Pastor Scott Markle

      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
      I really do not know where you are going with this. The Bible itself has revelations and prophecies and not all revelations are prophecies.
      Paul had things revealed to him that were hid and unknown that the Gentiles would be fellow heirs.
      How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:3-9
      And I do not mean this as a Hyper-dispensationalist would, for there were people in Christ before Paul (Rom. 16:7). This is not prophecy for there are none concerning the Church age in the O.T..
      Israel rejected the New Wine (Jesus Christ) and said the Old Wine (law) was better, had they tasted the New Wine there would be no church age or mystery as spoken above. to be revealed.
      It was a revealed mystery. Sure there are things concerning the Gentiles after the this age. And we can now see types in the Old Testament (Boaz and Ruth) concerning a Gentile bride, but this is hindsight.
      Peter could have had a ham sandwich in Acts 2, but he did not know it till later, by revelation. But this has nothing to do with 1John 2;23 and those 10 added words in italics. Where did they get them? Did the violate Pro. 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Where did they get this advance revelation? Was it from man, God or the devil?
        I just read your comment and you bypassed what I wrote concerning book arrangement, chapters being added and verse numberings and such. There is no scripture support for these either, should we reject these?
      Happy New Year
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West

      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
      SCRIPTURAL MARY

      I WALK NOT ON WATER NOR CHANGE IT TO WINE
      SO HEARKEN O’ SINNER TO THIS STORY OF MINE
      I, AM A DAUGHTER OF ABRAHAM SINNER BY BIRTH
      A HAND MAID OF LOW ESTATE USED HERE ON EARTH
      MY HAIR IS NOT GENTILE BLOND, I HAVE NOT EYES OF BLUE
      A MOTHER OF MANY CHILDREN A DAUGHTER OF A JEW
      FOR JOSEPH MY HUSBAND DID HONOUR OUR BED
      TO FATHER OUR CHILDREN WHO NOW ARE ALL DEAD
      BUT I SPEAK NOT OF THESE WHO I LOVED SO WELL
      BUT OF THE FIRST BORN WHICH SAVED ME FROM HELL
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               2
      WHEN I WAS A VIRGIN UNKNOWN BY MAN
      THE ANGEL OF GOD SPOKE OF GOD’S PLAN
      FOR I HAD BEEN CHOSEN A FAVOUR VESSEL OF CLAY
      TO BARE THE SON OF THE HIGHEST BY AN UNUSUAL WAY
      FOR THE SCRIPTURE FORETOLD OF WHAT WAS TO BE
      SO MY WOMB GOD FILLED WHEN HE OVER SHADOW ME
      BUT THE LAW OF MOSES DID DEMAND MY LIFE
      WOULD JOSEPH MY BETROTHED MAKE ME HIS WIFE
      I THOUGHT ON THESE THINGS WITH SO NEEDLESS FEARS
      BUT A DREAM HE RECEIVED ENDED ALL FEARS
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                              3
      THEN MY SOUL DID REJOICE IN GOD MY SAVIOR
      HE SCATTERED THE PROUD AND BLESS ME WITH FAVOR
      O’ THE RICH ARE EMPTY, THE HUNGRY HAVE GOOD THINGS
      FOR THE THRONE OF DAVID WOULD HAVE JESUS THE KING
      BUT BEFORE I DELIVERED THE MAN CHILD OF OLD
      CAESAR WITH TAXES DEMANDED OUR GOLD
      TO THE CITY OF DAVID JOSEPH AND I WENT
      ON A BEAST OF BURDEN OUR STRENGTH NEAR SPEND
      NO ROOM AT An INN, BUT A STABLE WAS FOUND
      WITH STRAW AND DUNG LAID ON THE GROUND
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
                                                  4
      MY MATRIX WAS OPEN IN A PLACE SO PROFANE
      FROM THE GLORY OF GLORIES TO A BEGGAR’S DOMAIN
      SO WE WRAPPED THE CHILD GIVEN TO THE HEATHEN A STRANGER
      NO REPUTATION IS SOUGHT TO BE BORN IN A MANGER
      HIS STAR WAS ABOVE US THE HOST OF HEAVEN DID SING
      FOR SHEPHERDS AND WISE MEN WORSHIP ONLY THE KING
      BUT HEROD THAT DEVIL SOUGHT FOR HIS SOUL
      AND MURDER RACHEL’S CHILDREN UNDER TWO YEARS OLD
      BUT JOSEPH MY HUSBAND WAS WARNED IN A DREAM
      SO WE FLED INTO EGYPT BECAUSE OF HIS SCHEME
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               5
      SO THE GIVER OF LIFE, THE ROCK OF ALL AGES
      GREW UP TO FULFILL THE HOLY PAGES
      HE PREACH WITH AUTHORITY LIKE NONE BEFORE
      PLEASE TRUST HIS WORDS AND NOT THE GREAT WHORE
      HER BLACK ROBE PRIEST FILL THEIR LIPS WITH MY NAME
      WITH BLASPHEMOUS PRAISE, DAMMATION AND SHAME
      THERE ARE NO NAIL PRINTS IN MY HANDS, MY BODY DID NOT ARISE
      NOR, AM A DEMON OF FATIMA FLOATING IN THE SKY
      THERE IS NO DEITY IN MY VEINS FOR ADAM CAME FROM SOD
      FOR I, AM, MOTHER OF THE SON OF MAN NOT THE MOTHER OF GOD
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
      6
      FOR MY SOUL WAS PURCHASED BY GOD UPON THE CROSS
      FOR MY SINS HE DID SUFFER AN UNMEASURABLE COST
      I WILL NOT STEAL HIS GLORY WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD
      ENDURING SPIT AND THORNS PLACED ON HIS HEAD
      YET, IF YOU WISH TO HONOR ME THEN GIVE ME NONE AT ALL
      BUT TRUST THE LAMB WHO STOOL IN PILATE’S HALL
      CALL NOT ON THIS REDEEMED WOMAN IN YOUR TIME OF FEAR
      FOR I WILL NOT GIVE ANSWER NEITHER WILL I HEAR
      AND WHEN THE BOOKS ARE OPEN AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE
      I AMEN YOUR DAMNATION THAT TRUST NOT HIM ALONE
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, O’ SINNER TRUST ME NOT

                       WRITTEN BY BRO. WEST
       
      · 0 replies
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