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GIANTS in ancient history - the Nephilim


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Thanks for your comments Bro. Jerry80871852, and thanks to everyone else!

Yes, I am not really here to argue, and I am not being dogmatic about any of this... just saying I have spent some time studying this and simply sharing my findings, as I said before, others may be right and I could be wrong, CAN I MAKE THAT ANY MORE PLAIN? But at the same time my friends---I think it is possible there may be more to these giants the Nephilim, entire books have been written on the subject, and I do find it very interesting! :thumb

Isn't it great that after being saved for 27 years and teaching adult Sunday School for over 10 years that one can still find the Bible so interesting? I love the Bible, and I do find it very interesting that the Hebrew word for Nephilim is "FALLEN ONES," and they were known as the Rephaim (Hebrew for 'PHANTOMS').

I also want to mention that I am well aware of the passage in Matthew 22, particularly the last two words in that passage, "IN HEAVEN". If we look at this without changing the KJV text, it is at least possible that the angels who left their first estate (Jude) GAVE UP HEAVEN in order to have relations with human women, and corrupt the DNA of man. They could not take wives in HEAVEN, but they looked upon the daughters of MEN and made a decision. Were the Nephilim stupid? Or were they attempting to corrupt all flesh with violence and destroy God's creation? I sure don't know.

"In the resurrection therefore whose wife of the seven shall she be? For they all had her." But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures, or the power of God. "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are like angels IN HEAVEN." Matthew 22:23-30

It is interesting that in Genesis 3, God talks about putting enmity between "thy seed and her seed," and in the context, this appears to be referring to the SEED of the fallen angel, Lucifer!

"And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy SEED and her SEED; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." Gen 3:14-15

Here a few more opinions on the Nephilim...

http://www.bibledefenders.com/id17.html
http://bibleprobe.com/nephilim.htm
http://raptureready.com/faq/faq333.html


The old devil tried every way he could to mess up the seed so that Jesus would not be born a deity, sons of God marrying daughters of men was one of them, and if he had got his seed injected into the line that Jesus came from he would have succeeded. But as you know God intervened, the flood came about for that purpose, that is to keep it from happening, but as you may know many reject that completely just out of personal opinion and human logic.

I have no problem discussing it, I just know how many are on here who get that smarty attitude and get rather personal in their remarks
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6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD' date=' and Satan came also among them. Job 1:6 (KJV)[/quote']

I agree that these are referring to angels - but it does not specifically say the sons of God here were fallen angels. They could just as easily be referring to the angels of God giving their reports and Satan showing up among them to cause discord and accuse the brethren.
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Dr. Carl Baugh came to my college once (Norris Bible Baptist, in Fort Worth) and said they found the skeleton of a woman outside of Weatherford, TX that had the equivalent of a size 16 shoe. He even said what they would have called her...Ma'am. :lol:

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I agree, sons of God are fallen angels. We have had that discussion on here some 6 months or so back. Some were not to kind about my stand and got quite smarty in their remarks and I see thats coming again from those who believe they are not angels.

I know many good men who don't believe they're not angels who don't get the lest bit smarty on this subject when discussing it with someone who believes they were angels.

The thing is many people use human logic and say its not possible instead of taking things in the Bible in proper context on this subject.

But this is a subject that I can agree to disagree on. But thinking people will think the Bible is science fiction is not a logical reason for not teaching sons of God are not angels. Seems to me we can gather from God's Word that the big majority of people are not going to believe the Holy Bible is God's true word to mankind.

And I believe that is where many of the lost people who write science fiction stories got many of their ideas.


People who are trying to rightly divide the Word, also don't appreciate being referred to as using "human logic" and "humanistic thinking" and a few other condescending things like I have experienced when debating this subject. It gets frustrating but I do appologize for any wrong attitude. What looks like "human logic" to me is when we make the Bible say things the Bible just don't say:

Please, show me a verse the Bible, which uses the word ANGEL, and says angels procreated with women.
Please show me a place which says ANGELS intended to corrupt the "seed".
Please show me one that defines "morning stars" as angels.
Show me a verse that says ANGELS came before a THRONE of God, in HEAVEN.
Show a verse that states that angels "went after strange flesh"
Show me a verse which defines "sons of God" as angels.
I promise you I will believe any or all of these, if you can PROVE it by showing me where the Bible says it.
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Show me a verse that says ANGELS came before a THRONE of God, in HEAVEN.


Job does not specify that it was before His throne - but in His presence.

Satan appears before the Lord, if not other fallen angels:

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Holy angels also appear before the Lord in Heaven in some sense:

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
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"come before his presence with singing..." That is done one earth, Jerry.
The book of Job says "before the Lord"...that is on earth too..... Abraham was "before the Lord", Moses was too.

What is the Chronological Order"?
When was Satan cast down? Jesus said he beheld(past tense) Satan as lightning, fall from Heaven. Satan had already rebelled against God, and was in the Garden of Eden, had already "left his own habitation" by that time.
So where is Satan now? Is he going to and fro in the earth and walking up and down in it"?

Yes, it says ANGELS, not "sons of God".
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"come before his presence with singing..." That is done one earth, Jerry.
The book of Job says "before the Lord"...that is on earth too..... Abraham was "before the Lord", Moses was too.


I am sure if the angels appeared before the Lord in Heaven, then it would also be in His presence - so I don't see the point you are making. That in itself does not prove it must be on earth - in fact, there are verses in the Bible indicating we will dwell in His presence after we die/in Heaven as well.

When was Satan cast down? Jesus said he beheld(past tense) Satan as lightning, fall from Heaven. Satan had already rebelled against God, and was in the Garden of Eden, had already "left his own habitation" by that time.


Right - Satan fell sometime after day six (actually after day seven - see Genesis 1:31) and before he led Adam and Eve astray:

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

In regards to Vince's post and Qwerty's, there was no way Satan sinned and fell before the earth was created and before the end of Creation week - as it quite clearly states he walked in Eden before he fell.

Ezekiel 28:14-15 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
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6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 1:6 (KJV)

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 2:1 (KJV)

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Gen 6:4 (KJV)


Fallen angels, sons of God came along with Satan standing before God, in both Job 1:6 & Job 2:1.

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Gen 6:2 (KJV)

Fallen angels, sons of God marry daughters of men and their off spring are might men.

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Gen 6:5-7 (KJV)

And because of that wickedness God destroyed the world and everything on it with a flood wiping out the evil Satan and his fallen angels had done and only 8 people survived, that being Noah and his family.

What is and what has always been the goal of old Satan? Does old Satan have any morals at all or will he use any sin possible to reach his goal?

Of course we know Satan will never reach his goal, but we know to that he is still hard at work, none of have to look very far to see some of his handy work.

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I am sure if the angels appeared before the Lord in Heaven, then it would also be in His presence - so I don't see the point you are making. That in itself does not prove it must be on earth - in fact, there are verses in the Bible indicating we will dwell in His presence after we die/in Heaven as well.



Right - Satan fell sometime after day six (actually after day seven - see Genesis 1:31) and before he led Adam and Eve astray:

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

In regards to Vince's post and Qwerty's, there was no way Satan sinned and fell before the earth was created and before the end of Creation week - as it quite clearly states he walked in Eden before he fell.

Ezekiel 28:14-15 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.


The part I put in bold, I believe there are some who try to teach that Satan fell before this time to try and prove the world was in existence and the fallen angels were living on it, dinosaurs & such and God destroyed it to make this world.

I probably did not say that very well for I am not put on that false teaching, I believe we've mentioned that before.
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6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 1:6 (KJV)
1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 2:1 (KJV)

Fallen angels, sons of God came along with Satan standing before God, in both Job 1:6 & Job 2:1.


No offense - but those passages do not specifically state that these were fallen angels, so that is opinion. I believe they are holy angels - but I see that it does not specify that either. There is a passage that states fallen angels do give accounts to God:

2 Chronicles 18:18-22 Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner. Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.
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6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 1:6 (KJV)

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 2:1 (KJV)

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Gen 6:4 (KJV)


Fallen angels, sons of God came along with Satan standing before God, in both Job 1:6 & Job 2:1.

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Gen 6:2 (KJV)

Fallen angels, sons of God marry daughters of men and their off spring are might men.

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Gen 6:5-7 (KJV)

And because of that wickedness God destroyed the world and everything on it with a flood wiping out the evil Satan and his fallen angels had done and only 8 people survived, that being Noah and his family.

What is and what has always been the goal of old Satan? Does old Satan have any morals at all or will he use any sin possible to reach his goal?

Of course we know Satan will never reach his goal, but we know to that he is still hard at work, none of have to look very far to see some of his handy work.


Again, I ask you to answer my questions.

Please, show me a verse the Bible, which uses the word ANGEL, and says angels procreated with women.
Please show me a place which says ANGELS intended to corrupt the "seed".
Please show me one that defines "morning stars" as angels.
Show me a verse that says ANGELS came before a THRONE of God, in HEAVEN.
Show a verse that states that angels "went after strange flesh"
Show me a verse which defines "sons of God" as angels.
I promise you I will believe any or all of these, if you can PROVE it by showing me where the Bible says it.
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I did, but you refuse the answer. When someone refuses the answer because they do not like it what else can one do?

Jerry neither does it specifically state that these were not fallen angels.

And who runs around with Satan? Would it be fallen angels who are his helpers.

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2 Chronicles 18:18-22 Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner. Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.


Was this for sure an "angel"?
It only says "lying spirit".
It does seem to indicate it was one of the "host of heaven", was it a FALLEN angel?
Did this actually take place? Or was it a vision?
Or was the whole thing a LIE??

The fact is, Micaiah LIED:

13And Micaiah said, As the LORD liveth, even what my God saith, that will I speak.
14And when he was come to the king, the king said unto him, Micaiah, shall we go to Ramothgilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And he said, Go ye up, and prosper, and they shall be delivered into your hand.
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I did, but you refuse the answer. When someone refuses the answer because they do not like it what else can one do?

Jerry neither does it specifically state that these were not fallen angels.

And who runs around with Satan? Would it be fallen angels who are his helpers.


Jerry ,
I will answer your when you answer mine.
Here are my questiosn again.

Please, show me a verse the Bible, which uses the word ANGEL, and says angels procreated with women. Did you show me this verse?
Please show me a place which says ANGELS intended to corrupt the "seed". DId you provide this verse?
Please show me one that defines "morning stars" as angels. Where's my definition?
Show me a verse that says ANGELS came before a THRONE of God, in HEAVEN. The incident in Job 1 and 2 does not use the words Angel, throne or heaven.
Show a verse that states that angels "went after strange flesh" Did you show this?
Show me a verse which defines "sons of God" as angels. I still haven't seen the definition in the Bible?
I promise you I will believe any or all of these, if you can PROVE it by showing me where the Bible says it.
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Jerry neither does it specifically state that these were not fallen angels.


I know - that is what I acknowledged in my post above. It is an assumption either way.

And who runs around with Satan? Would it be fallen angels who are his helpers.


It does not say they came with Satan - but that Satan showed up among them. The impression I get is that he was not part of the meeting, but came of his own accord.
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Was this for sure an "angel"?
It only says "lying spirit".


What else would it have been?

It does seem to indicate it was one of the "host of heaven", was it a FALLEN angel?


The holy angels don't lie.

Did this actually take place? Or was it a vision?


There is nothing in the context to indicate it was a vision of any kind.

Or was the whole thing a LIE??

The fact is, Micaiah LIED:

13And Micaiah said, As the LORD liveth, even what my God saith, that will I speak.
14And when he was come to the king, the king said unto him, Micaiah, shall we go to Ramothgilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And he said, Go ye up, and prosper, and they shall be delivered into your hand.


Micah facetiously gave them what they wanted to hear - because they would not accept the truth. The passage I quoted refers to a lying spirit speaking through the false prophets. It was not referring to what Micaiah said - I believe he was just being sarcastic. He had already told them the truth and the king of Israel just didn't like the answers - so he said what Ahab wanted to hear.
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In the context of his statements, it is quite obvious what his position and statements were about. The king even knew he was not being serious - and was mocking the false prophets and their false predictions.

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1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:1-6 (KJV)

Verse 4 is quite clear, the sons of God had children by the daughters of men.

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 1:6 (KJV)

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 2:1 (KJV)

sons of God is fallen angels.

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sons of God is fallen angels.


The sons of God in Job are angels - but that does not prove they were fallen angels, nor that the term is used the same way in Genesis (as stated elsewhere in this thread, the Bible uses the term four different ways).
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