Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest

    For an ad free experience on Online Baptist, Please login or register for free

GIANTS in ancient history - the Nephilim


Recommended Posts

  • Members
Heartstrings... For cryin' out loud, man!
Calm down and listen up, you might learn something son!
I already told you, the SONS OF GOD are always angels in the OT.
Who do you think they were in Job 38:6-7, MORMONS? Mankind had not been created!
Well, that's what you are implying, that's what Mormons teach, you can read about that here:
http://epologetics.org/sonsofgod.php

Your dogmatic approach is only showing your lack of understanding, and you sound more and more like God's men you were mocking earlier. At some point I hope you will see that your view is not the only one around...

"The sons of God ('bene elohim' and variants) are divine members of God's heavenly host...The title 'sons/children of God' is familiar from Ugaritic mythology, in which the gods collectively are the 'children of El'...The sons/children of God are also found in Phoenician and Ammonite inscriptions, referring to the pantheon of sub-ordinate deities, indicating that the term was widespread in the West Semitic religions." - Oxford Companion to the Bible

"A meeting of the angels in heaven. They are the sons of God, ch. 38:7. They came to give an account of their negotiations on earth and to receive new instructions. Satan was one of them originally; but how hast thou fallen, O Lucifer!" - Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible

"Sons of God - The angels called the sons of God, because they had their whole being from him, and because they were made partakers of his Divine and glorious image. Shouted - Rejoiced in and blessed God for his works, whereby he intimates, that they neither did advise or any way assist him, nor dislike or censure any of his works, as Job had presumed to do." John Wesley's Explanatory Notes on the Whole Bible

Who were the sons of God and daughters of men in Genesis 6:1-4?
http://www.gotquestions.org/sons-of-God.html

"?Sons of God? is clearly used of angels in Job 38:7. The Septuagint (LXX) here translates ?sons of God? as ?angels of God.? This need not mean that evil angels, or demons, actually cohabited with women. Nevertheless, evil angels on earth could have used the bodies of ungodly men, by demonic possession, to achieve their evil purpose of producing an evil generation of people" (Gen. 6:12)
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/ar ... hilim9.asp

"The Jewish Fathers, when interpreting this expression from Genesis 6:2, invariably interpreted it as "angels." No less an authority than W.F. Allbright tells us that:

"The Israelites who heard this section (Genesis 6.2) recited unquestionably thought of intercourse between angels and women." (8)

Philo of Alexandria, a deeply religious man, wrote a brief but beautiful treatise on this subject, called "Concerning The Giants." Basing his exposition on the Greek version of the Bible, he renders it as "Angels of God." Says Bamberger, "Had he found the phrase 'sons of God' in his text, he most certainly would have been inspired to comment on it." (9)

Philo certainly took the Genesis passage as historical, explaining that just as the word "soul" applies both to good and evil beings, so does the word "angel." The bad angels, who followed Lucifer, at a later point in time failed to resist the lure of physical desire, and succumbed to it. He goes on to say that the story of the giants is not a myth, but it is there to teach us that some men are earth-born, while others are heaven- born, and the highest are God-born. (10)

The Early Church Fathers believed the same way. Men like Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Athenagoras, Tertullian, Lactantius, Eusebius, Ambrose...all adopted this interpretation. In the words of the Ante-Nicene Fathers, the angels fell "into impure love of virgins, and were subjugated by the flesh...Of those lovers of virgins therefore, were begotten those who are called giants." (11) And again, "...the angels transgressed, and were captivated by love of women and begat children." (12)

Nowhere before the 5th century A.D. do we find any interpretation for "sons of God" other than that of angels. We cannot deny the Jewish Fathers knowledge of their own terminology! They invariably translated "sons of God" as "angels." The testimony of Josephus, that colorful cosmopolitan and historian, is also of paramount importance. In his monumental volume, "Antiquities of the Jews," he reveals his acquaintance with the tradition of the fallen angels consorting with women of Earth. He not only knew of the tradition but tells us how the children of such union possessed super human strength, and were known for their extreme wickedness. "For the tradition is that these men did what resembled the acts of those men the Grecians called giants." Josephus goes on to add that Noah remonstrated with these offspring of the angels for their villainy. (13)

Perhaps the most conclusive argument for interpreting the expression as "angels" is the simplest one of all. If the writer of Genesis wanted to refer to the "sons of Seth" he would have just said so. If God had intended that meaning, then the verse would undoubtedly read, "the sons of Seth saw the daughters of Cain that they were fair..." But the Bible meant something far more sinister--the sexual union between angels from Hell and evil women from Earth. Because of the gravity of such a union, and its dire consequences for the human race, God moved to destroy the race before it could destroy itself--except for one family which had not been contaminated."
http://www.mt.net/~watcher/enoch5.html


Brother Parrish,
The Bible uses precise wording. It leaves no words out and adds no unnecessary ones.
In these two verses, I want you to focus on one word:
Gen 6:1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 104
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Members

I'm going to try just one more time, trying to point you to Holy Scriptures where the answers lie to your questions which have already been answered.

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Where and when did this take place at? "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?" When God laid the foundation of the world.

Who was with God at that time? "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" The morning star and the sons of God. Check out and find who the morning star & the sons of God and you will have your answer. By the way, at that time God had not created Adam, so it could not have been men, humans, present with Him. Hint, sons of God are angels.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Brother Parrish, regardless of your position, quoting references to a corrupted Bible manuscript (Septuagint) and an apostate Jew's (Philo) interpretation certainly does not help your argument.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Perhaps the most conclusive argument for interpreting the expression as "angels" is the simplest one of all. If the writer of Genesis wanted to refer to the "sons of Seth" he would have just said so. If God had intended that meaning, then the verse would undoubtedly read, "the sons of Seth saw the daughters of Cain that they were fair..."


Sons of Seth states they were from that line - sons of God indicated they were believers who compromised. Someone can be from a certain line and still be an unbeliever.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members


Every one of the named sons of Seth lived so many hundred years and "begat sons and daughters" so yes, some of these many un-named "sons and daughters" were, no doubt, unbelievers.
When I referred to "Sons of Seth" I meant the ones whose names appear both in Genesis 5 and in the direct line of Christ .
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
I'm going to try just one more time, trying to point you to Holy Scriptures where the answers lie to your questions which have already been answered.

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Where and when did this take place at? "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?" When God laid the foundation of the world.

Who was with God at that time? "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" The morning star and the sons of God. Check out and find who the morning star & the sons of God and you will have your answer. By the way, at that time God had not created Adam, so it could not have been men, humans, present with Him. Hint, sons of God are angels.


This passage is in figurative language, Jerry.
Once again, "Planet Earth" has no cornerstone. It is a spheroid planet. The center core is also spheroid; There are no corners in a ball. Find you a Christian geologist and ask him.

Could it be that....And I'm only asking OK???
Could it be that these verses are telling us......

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Foundations appears to be faith Psalm 11:3, Psalm 82:5, Isaiah 51:16
Earth is the heart or body of a man; I'm not sure which yet.

Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
A line appears to speak of Judgement. does God judge planet earth? Or will He judge us?
Does measures speak of truth?

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Our faith(foundations) is fastened on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ is the cornerstone.
The Bible also says he will be the "head of the corner" and the "chief cornerstone".
A "head of the corner" is laid on TOP of two intersection walls.
Somebody tell me when Jesus becomes the "head of the corner".

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Isn't it true that all the sons of God have not shouted for joy yet?

Before getting mad at me or dismissing it altogether, could someone help me study this out?
It would help by knowing what these types mean.
Foundations
Earth
Measures
Lines
Cornerstone
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Before getting mad at me or dismissing it altogether, could someone help me study this out?
It would help by knowing what these types mean.


The rest of the passage is literal - referring to creation - why should we believe these verses are symbolic?

Also:

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Where were you when I did this? That tells me it is referring to some past event - not some future prophecy or event that had not happened yet. Otherwise God would have said, "Where will you be when..."
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Hi heartstrings,

You know I believe Job 38 is speaking of Creation and I understand your frustration because you believe the passage is figurative but something just occured to me this time around... :Green

You are right; the earth does not have a cornerstone and its foundations aren't fastened to anything.

That was God's whole point.

NO ONE laid anything out and measured before building. NO ONE laid a cornerstone in order to build the earth. NO ONE had to fasten the foundations of the earth so that they wouldn't move.

When man builds something, he has to do all these things. God, however, does not. This is so beautiful! :clap:

God is saying to Job, "I am all powerful; I created the earth with my voice [not with tape rulers and cornerstones]. Where were YOU when I did all this???" We know the earth hangs on nothing at all. It is kept in its place by God's power.

God was putting Job in his place because Job had begun questioning why God would allow all those bad things to happen to him.

In the middle of God's questioning, He gives us a scientific tidbit - stars sing. (Scientists now are finding this out.) Then he also mentions that the sons of God shouted for joy - His created ones, not inanimate objects, not animals and not human either but still beings that had the power to choose to love and worship Him or to rebel as did Lucifer and much like man did later. Yes, His angels shouted for joy at the wonder they beheld as they had the privilege of watching all this take place. I can only hope that one day in Heaven, God will allow us some kind of DVD feature where we can watch what happened. :clap::clap: :clap:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Its neat, it gives us a glimpse during the time God was creating all of this that He did not include in the account given to us in Genesis.

No doubt, God put Job right in his place, which we all know that He can do with us today.

But what a happy event, occasion that was, the angels shouting & singing with joy reminds me of this verses. OH, I'm not connecting these verses, but I posting both of them below.

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Job 38:7 (KJV)

7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Luke 15:7 (KJV)

Just think, this also gives us a glimpse of joyous occasions we will get to experience in heaven one day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Hi heartstrings,

You know I believe Job 38 is speaking of Creation and I understand your frustration because you believe the passage is figurative but something just occured to me this time around... :Green

You are right; the earth does not have a cornerstone and its foundations aren't fastened to anything.

That was God's whole point.

NO ONE laid anything out and measured before building. NO ONE laid a cornerstone in order to build the earth. NO ONE had to fasten the foundations of the earth so that they wouldn't move.

When man builds something, he has to do all these things. God, however, does not. This is so beautiful! :clap:

God is saying to Job, "I am all powerful; I created the earth with my voice [not with tape rulers and cornerstones]. Where were YOU when I did all this???" We know the earth hangs on nothing at all. It is kept in its place by God's power.

God was putting Job in his place because Job had begun questioning why God would allow all those bad things to happen to him.

In the middle of God's questioning, He gives us a scientific tidbit - stars sing. (Scientists now are finding this out.) Then he also mentions that the sons of God shouted for joy - His created ones, not inanimate objects, not animals and not human either but still beings that had the power to choose to love and worship Him or to rebel as did Lucifer and much like man did later. Yes, His angels shouted for joy at the wonder they beheld as they had the privilege of watching all this take place. I can only hope that one day in Heaven, God will allow us some kind of DVD feature where we can watch what happened. :clap::clap::clap:


That's an interesting perspective, sister.
I will study that.
Thanks.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Brother Parrish' date=' regardless of your position, quoting references to a corrupted Bible manuscript (Septuagint) and an apostate Jew's (Philo) interpretation certainly does not help your argument.[/quote']
LOL, yes, well don't forget---the Apostle Paul quoted heathen poets more than once!
Jerry, make no mistake, I'm not arguing at all---I already stated that as politely as I could, and at this point I honestly don't give a rat's rear end whether you agree with my views or not. Maybe you are just hear to argue, or maybe the people who don't believe what the Bible is PLAINLY teaching them should go start their own thread called, "why we are right about the Sons of God and everyone else is wrong." I promise you, I won't post a word on it! :cool
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Then he also mentions that the sons of God shouted for joy - His created ones' date=' not inanimate objects, not animals and not human either but still beings that had the power to choose to love and worship Him or to rebel as did Lucifer and much like man did later. Yes, His angels shouted for joy at the wonder they beheld as they had the privilege of watching all this take place....[/quote']

Exactly---I agree, the sons of God were angels, you are hitting the nail on the head! :thumb
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
I'm going to try just one more time, trying to point you to Holy Scriptures where the answers lie to your questions which have already been answered.

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Where and when did this take place at? "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?" When God laid the foundation of the world.

Who was with God at that time? "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" The morning star and the sons of God. Check out and find who the morning star & the sons of God and you will have your answer. By the way, at that time God had not created Adam, so it could not have been men, humans, present with Him. Hint, sons of God are angels.


EXCELLENT POST Jerry80871852, I agree 100%, you obviously have no problem seeing the same way I do, and neither one of needed a microscope and a blow torch, imagine that! :amen:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Jerry' date=' make no mistake, I'm not arguing at all---I already stated that as politely as I could, and at this point I honestly don't give a rat's rear end whether you agree with my views or not. Maybe you are just hear to argue, or maybe the people who don't believe what the Bible is PLAINLY teaching them should go start their own thread called, "why we are right about the Sons of God and everyone else is wrong." I promise you, I won't post a word on it! :cool[/quote']

Forget the crude language. I don't know why you are getting weird - I just stated that we should stick to the Bible not run to unbelievers' writings and corrupted manuscripts to learn about something. It has nothing to do with me thinking I am right or not - but let's put it this way, if you don't think you are right on an issue, why are you debating it on a message board?!?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...