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GIANTS in ancient history - the Nephilim


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"come before his presence with singing..." That is done one earth, Jerry.
The book of Job says "before the Lord"...that is on earth too..... Abraham was "before the Lord", Moses was too.

What is the Chronological Order"?
When was Satan cast down? Jesus said he beheld(past tense) Satan as lightning, fall from Heaven. Satan had already rebelled against God, and was in the Garden of Eden, had already "left his own habitation" by that time.
So where is Satan now? Is he going to and fro in the earth and walking up and down in it"?

Yes, it says ANGELS, not "sons of God".
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"come before his presence with singing..." That is done one earth, Jerry.
The book of Job says "before the Lord"...that is on earth too..... Abraham was "before the Lord", Moses was too.


I am sure if the angels appeared before the Lord in Heaven, then it would also be in His presence - so I don't see the point you are making. That in itself does not prove it must be on earth - in fact, there are verses in the Bible indicating we will dwell in His presence after we die/in Heaven as well.

When was Satan cast down? Jesus said he beheld(past tense) Satan as lightning, fall from Heaven. Satan had already rebelled against God, and was in the Garden of Eden, had already "left his own habitation" by that time.


Right - Satan fell sometime after day six (actually after day seven - see Genesis 1:31) and before he led Adam and Eve astray:

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

In regards to Vince's post and Qwerty's, there was no way Satan sinned and fell before the earth was created and before the end of Creation week - as it quite clearly states he walked in Eden before he fell.

Ezekiel 28:14-15 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
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6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 1:6 (KJV)

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 2:1 (KJV)

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Gen 6:4 (KJV)


Fallen angels, sons of God came along with Satan standing before God, in both Job 1:6 & Job 2:1.

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Gen 6:2 (KJV)

Fallen angels, sons of God marry daughters of men and their off spring are might men.

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Gen 6:5-7 (KJV)

And because of that wickedness God destroyed the world and everything on it with a flood wiping out the evil Satan and his fallen angels had done and only 8 people survived, that being Noah and his family.

What is and what has always been the goal of old Satan? Does old Satan have any morals at all or will he use any sin possible to reach his goal?

Of course we know Satan will never reach his goal, but we know to that he is still hard at work, none of have to look very far to see some of his handy work.

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I am sure if the angels appeared before the Lord in Heaven, then it would also be in His presence - so I don't see the point you are making. That in itself does not prove it must be on earth - in fact, there are verses in the Bible indicating we will dwell in His presence after we die/in Heaven as well.



Right - Satan fell sometime after day six (actually after day seven - see Genesis 1:31) and before he led Adam and Eve astray:

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

In regards to Vince's post and Qwerty's, there was no way Satan sinned and fell before the earth was created and before the end of Creation week - as it quite clearly states he walked in Eden before he fell.

Ezekiel 28:14-15 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.


The part I put in bold, I believe there are some who try to teach that Satan fell before this time to try and prove the world was in existence and the fallen angels were living on it, dinosaurs & such and God destroyed it to make this world.

I probably did not say that very well for I am not put on that false teaching, I believe we've mentioned that before.
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6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 1:6 (KJV)
1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 2:1 (KJV)

Fallen angels, sons of God came along with Satan standing before God, in both Job 1:6 & Job 2:1.


No offense - but those passages do not specifically state that these were fallen angels, so that is opinion. I believe they are holy angels - but I see that it does not specify that either. There is a passage that states fallen angels do give accounts to God:

2 Chronicles 18:18-22 Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner. Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.
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6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 1:6 (KJV)

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 2:1 (KJV)

4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Gen 6:4 (KJV)


Fallen angels, sons of God came along with Satan standing before God, in both Job 1:6 & Job 2:1.

2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Gen 6:2 (KJV)

Fallen angels, sons of God marry daughters of men and their off spring are might men.

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Gen 6:5-7 (KJV)

And because of that wickedness God destroyed the world and everything on it with a flood wiping out the evil Satan and his fallen angels had done and only 8 people survived, that being Noah and his family.

What is and what has always been the goal of old Satan? Does old Satan have any morals at all or will he use any sin possible to reach his goal?

Of course we know Satan will never reach his goal, but we know to that he is still hard at work, none of have to look very far to see some of his handy work.


Again, I ask you to answer my questions.

Please, show me a verse the Bible, which uses the word ANGEL, and says angels procreated with women.
Please show me a place which says ANGELS intended to corrupt the "seed".
Please show me one that defines "morning stars" as angels.
Show me a verse that says ANGELS came before a THRONE of God, in HEAVEN.
Show a verse that states that angels "went after strange flesh"
Show me a verse which defines "sons of God" as angels.
I promise you I will believe any or all of these, if you can PROVE it by showing me where the Bible says it.
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I did, but you refuse the answer. When someone refuses the answer because they do not like it what else can one do?

Jerry neither does it specifically state that these were not fallen angels.

And who runs around with Satan? Would it be fallen angels who are his helpers.

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2 Chronicles 18:18-22 Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner. Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.


Was this for sure an "angel"?
It only says "lying spirit".
It does seem to indicate it was one of the "host of heaven", was it a FALLEN angel?
Did this actually take place? Or was it a vision?
Or was the whole thing a LIE??

The fact is, Micaiah LIED:

13And Micaiah said, As the LORD liveth, even what my God saith, that will I speak.
14And when he was come to the king, the king said unto him, Micaiah, shall we go to Ramothgilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And he said, Go ye up, and prosper, and they shall be delivered into your hand.
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I did, but you refuse the answer. When someone refuses the answer because they do not like it what else can one do?

Jerry neither does it specifically state that these were not fallen angels.

And who runs around with Satan? Would it be fallen angels who are his helpers.


Jerry ,
I will answer your when you answer mine.
Here are my questiosn again.

Please, show me a verse the Bible, which uses the word ANGEL, and says angels procreated with women. Did you show me this verse?
Please show me a place which says ANGELS intended to corrupt the "seed". DId you provide this verse?
Please show me one that defines "morning stars" as angels. Where's my definition?
Show me a verse that says ANGELS came before a THRONE of God, in HEAVEN. The incident in Job 1 and 2 does not use the words Angel, throne or heaven.
Show a verse that states that angels "went after strange flesh" Did you show this?
Show me a verse which defines "sons of God" as angels. I still haven't seen the definition in the Bible?
I promise you I will believe any or all of these, if you can PROVE it by showing me where the Bible says it.
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Jerry neither does it specifically state that these were not fallen angels.


I know - that is what I acknowledged in my post above. It is an assumption either way.

And who runs around with Satan? Would it be fallen angels who are his helpers.


It does not say they came with Satan - but that Satan showed up among them. The impression I get is that he was not part of the meeting, but came of his own accord.
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Was this for sure an "angel"?
It only says "lying spirit".


What else would it have been?

It does seem to indicate it was one of the "host of heaven", was it a FALLEN angel?


The holy angels don't lie.

Did this actually take place? Or was it a vision?


There is nothing in the context to indicate it was a vision of any kind.

Or was the whole thing a LIE??

The fact is, Micaiah LIED:

13And Micaiah said, As the LORD liveth, even what my God saith, that will I speak.
14And when he was come to the king, the king said unto him, Micaiah, shall we go to Ramothgilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And he said, Go ye up, and prosper, and they shall be delivered into your hand.


Micah facetiously gave them what they wanted to hear - because they would not accept the truth. The passage I quoted refers to a lying spirit speaking through the false prophets. It was not referring to what Micaiah said - I believe he was just being sarcastic. He had already told them the truth and the king of Israel just didn't like the answers - so he said what Ahab wanted to hear.
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In the context of his statements, it is quite obvious what his position and statements were about. The king even knew he was not being serious - and was mocking the false prophets and their false predictions.

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1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:1-6 (KJV)

Verse 4 is quite clear, the sons of God had children by the daughters of men.

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 1:6 (KJV)

1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
Job 2:1 (KJV)

sons of God is fallen angels.

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sons of God is fallen angels.


The sons of God in Job are angels - but that does not prove they were fallen angels, nor that the term is used the same way in Genesis (as stated elsewhere in this thread, the Bible uses the term four different ways).
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