Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest

    For an ad free experience on Online Baptist, Please login or register for free

GIANTS in ancient history - the Nephilim


Recommended Posts

  • Members

I have been doing a study on giants in ancient history, sometimes referred to as the Nephilim of the Bible (Numbers 13:32-33, Genesis 6:1-4), Sons of Anak, The Anakim, "Mound builders," Rephaim, The Adena, Ronnongwetowanca, or the Watchers. I am finding a lot of obscure references to old bones from all over the world---in Europe, Asia and North and South America, some of these refer to skeletons 10, 15, 25 feet and even bigger.

Of course some of these are going to be mere hoaxes (like the photoshopped giant human skeleton found in Saudi Arabia) and/or legends, but it is interesting that so many cultures have made mention of these giant men, the Nephilim, in ancient times, living all over the world.

One of the common traits seem to be "double rows of teeth" in some of the skulls, but I cannot seem to find any physical existing examples of those. Many of these references are from the 1800's or early 1900's, and several are from what is now the Ohio River Valley and New York. Anyone who has more information on the Nephilim, please let me know, here are a few links I have at least partially explored...


http://bibleprobe.com/nephilim.htm

http://www.nwcreation.net/nephilim.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/830123/posts

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.h ... 94629FD7CF

http://solomonspalding.com/SRP/saga2/sagawt0a.htm

http://www.stevequayle.com/Giants/charts/charts.html

http://www.geocities.com/age_of_giants/ ... lders.html

http://www.ldolphin.org/nephilim.html

http://paranormal.about.com/od/mysterio ... 060605.htm

http://www.greatdreams.com/reptlan/giants.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... ton_2.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 104
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Members

Double rows of teeth?!

Anyway my dad who studies Creation believes that before the flood, with the absense of harmful UV rays and the increased atmospheric pressure caused by the water vapor canopy, that everything--plants, animals, and even humans--were able to grow much bigger. You can see many insects and reptiles that were huge back then....fruit that was huge...and archaeology and Bible references point to men who were huge as well.

Probably a mix of leftover genetics from antediluvian times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

What about giants in modern history?
There have been hundreds, if not thousands of people aflicted with abnormal giantism even in modern times.
Do you suppose there were pituitary giants before the flood? Well...let's see...the human race was already cursed, people got diseases, there was most likely cancer, heart disease, genetic defects and hormonal anomalies....

Pituitary giantism
What do you suppose folks with growth hormone defects were called "in the earth in those days"??
Then you have groups like the Philistines with a population of untold thousands...what would be the chance of some individuals being aflicted with pituitary problems? Would one man say..."behold, there goeth a giant"? And another answer "Nay, he hath but a pituitary condition"? Of course not. If somebody like Robert Wadlow had lived in Biblical times, he would have simply been considered a "giant".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Wadlow
http://zhzh.info/news/2006-09-29-435

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

There are many other factors that contribute to how tall people become.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/09/ ... KL00.shtml

The Dutch are the world's tallest people thanks to their nation's health and wealth

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands, Sep. 15, 2006
By ARTHUR MAX Associated Press Writer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(AP) Most of us are taller than our parents, who probably are taller than their parents. But in the Netherlands, the generational progression has reached new heights.

In the last 150 years, the Dutch have become the tallest people on Earth _ and experts say they're still getting bigger. It is a tale of a nation's health and wealth.

Prosperity propelled the collective growth spurt that began in the mid-1800s and was only interrupted during the harsh years of the Nazi occupation in the 1940s _ when average heights actually declined.

With their protein-rich diet and a national health service that pampers infants, the Dutch are standing taller than ever. The average Dutchman stands just over 6 feet, while women average nearly 5-foot-7.

Ask Pieter Gijselaar about the problems of the very tall.

At more than 6-feet-10 1/2, he spends a lot of time ducking through doorways and guarding against minor head injuries. In an economy-class airline seat, he only fits in the emergency exit row. He had to have the seat of his Volkswagen Golf specially fitted and blocks put under the legs to raise his office desk.

But Gijselaar, a 28-year-old real estate agent, says he has it easier than his father, who is 6-foot-5.

"Buying clothes and shoes is not a problem anymore. You can always find stores that sell large sizes," he said. "But it's not cheap. I don't get any discounts off the rack."

Though people tend to stare, Gijselaar says being head, shoulders and trunk above everyone else makes an impression. "People don't forget me. If you meet me a year from now, you'll remember who I am."

The Dutch were not noted for their height until recently. It was only in the 1950s that they passed the Americans, who stood tallest for most of the last 200 years, said John Komlos, a leading expert on the subject who is professor of economic history at the University of Munich in Germany. He said the United States has now fallen behind Denmark.

Many Dutch are much taller than average. So many, in fact, that four years ago the government adjusted building codes to raise the standards for door frames and ceilings. Doors must now be 7-feet, 6 1/2-inches high.

For years, the Dutch national air carrier had an agreement with the Tall People's Club to give preference to club members for front seats with extra leg room. The airline scrapped the deal last year because of complaints of discrimination by more normal-sized people, club spokesman Paul van Sprundel said.

Though that was a setback, the national railway did ask the club to try out seats for new railway cars.

"More and more people are becoming aware of our needs," Van Sprundel said.

The club has a membership of 2,000 individuals and families, or about 4,500 people including children. But Van Sprundel said the requirements are minimal, to conform with similar clubs in other countries _ about 6-foot-3 for men and 5-foot-11 for women.

By those standards, he estimates about 800,000 people would qualify in this country of 16 million.

It wasn't always this way.

In 1848, one man out of four was rejected by the Dutch military because he was shorter than 5-foot-2. Today, fewer than one in 1,000 is that short.

George Maat, an anthropologist at Leiden University Medical Center, cites a study done in 1861 correlating the height of conscripts to the availability and price of rye, then the main food crop. One year after a poor crop, the number of men rejected as too short shot up.

Height appears to come naturally with the territory. Two thousand years ago, the men of the Low Countries stood about 5-foot-9 _ tall for the age _ and were enlisted as guards for the Roman emperor, Maat said.

Average heights declined over the next 1,800 years as food supply failed to keep pace with population growth and people moved into disease-ridden cities, said Maat. He spoke from his office, cluttered with leg bones and skulls, overlooking a grassy quadrangle that is the burial site of thousands killed by plague in 1635.

Even during the 17th century, when Amsterdam was the world's richest city, wealth was concentrated in the hands of a few merchants and average height did not increase.

It took until World War I for the Dutch to regain the 4 inches they lost over two millennia.

As lifestyles improve, Maat said the average height of a Dutch man could reach 6-foot-3 within 50 years. The influx of immigrants from North Africa may slow the growth rate, but their descendants could catch up in a few generations.

But wealth doesn't explain everything. Scandinavians, who are among the world's tallest people at 6 feet, are not getting taller on average, apparently hitting their genetic glass ceiling.

"With better food, Pygmies will increase in height, but you will never make Dutchmen out of them. It's just not there in the genes," Maat said.

"Since we are still on the move, we don't know where it's going to end," he said. "It's upward, yes, but how far upward we don't know."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I think that before the flood human beings had the best of all living environments - the most vitamin and mineral enriched food, the freshest air, the purest water, etc and this contributed to them being really tall. The Dutch have shown that just this alone makes people taller.

However, there are still many tall tribes in the world today. God created them to be that way. The men are seven feet tall and are not considered abnormal. They do not suffer from hyperthoriodism or anything of that sort. They dont take steroids or growth hormones to make them big either. They are just naturally TALL.

http://www.stevequayle.com/Giants/Afric ... rica1.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
I think that before the flood human beings had the best of all living environments - the most vitamin and mineral enriched food, the freshest air, the purest water, etc and this contributed to them being really tall. The Dutch have shown that just this alone makes people taller.

However, there are still many tall tribes in the world today. God created them to be that way. The men are seven feet tall and are not considered abnormal. They do not suffer from hyperthoriodism or anything of that sort. They dont take steroids or growth hormones to make them big either. They are just naturally TALL.

http://www.stevequayle.com/Giants/Afric ... rica1.html


Absolutely.
There were undoubtedly whole people groups then who were "giants" just as there are today. That would account for the ones in the Bible.
The "angel hybrid" proponents not only have to take this into account, but also the occurence of pituitary giants cannot be ruled out.
Like I pointed out, the ancients would not have stipulated that a person had a hormone problem; a person with pituitary giantism would have been called one of the "giants".
So, unless the "angels" did more "cohabiting" :loco .....AFTER the flood, both Goliath of Gath and king Og may have had this condition. Robert Wadlow was just short of 9' tall when he died at 22, and doctors said that he probably had not finished growing.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Like I pointed out, the ancients would not have stipulated that a person had a hormone problem; a person with pituitary giantism would have been called one of the "giants"....
both Goliath of Gath and king Og may have had this condition. Robert Wadlow was just short of 9' tall when he died at 22, and doctors said that he probably had not finished growing.


One thing to note is that pituitary giantism today often tends to be crippling. If I recall Robert Wadlow was mostly confined to a weelchair. A considerable contrast to goliath who was "a man of war from his youth". Even big guys aren't going to make it in battle without plenty of speed and good reflexes.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

The average height of Americans tends to be somewhat taller than most other nations, even though Americans are descended from numerous other cultures. Our access to diet and other health benefits could be a factor. The average height has been increasing on the past few years, so it could reasonably be argued that people back then were somewhat smaller, but more than a half a dozen inches short would be fairly implausible.

There, today, exists tribes in Africa with great height (averaging around 7 feet) and small stature (averaging around 4 feet). So it's also reasonable that a tall race of people could have existed in the levant at some point in history, but the Bible mentions them more as random occurances rather than people groups. Even Goliath's family, while mentioned, were not mentioned as being tall.

But there is another factor to consider. When groups have a genetically closed society for a long length of time, that particular gene pool takes on an intersting property. While bad genes get bred out, good genes don't necessarily get bred in. the result is that while they survive, they tend to be somewhat weakened. However, when two such groups get together and intermarry, their immediiate descendants have remarkable genetic strength. Excamples are the hybrid vigor found in mongrol dogs and the strength and endurance of the thorougbred horse, which is a cross between two genetically closed horse types.

When the sons of God (Seth's descendants) intermarried with the daugters of men (Cain's descendants) "men of reknown" were produced. That was the first mention of that phenomenon. The fallacious idea of genetic purity has haunted societies for millenia, and when those societies eventually intermarry woth other groups, traits emerge that were hidden before. It's very conceivable that such an event could produce giants of the stature mentioned in the Bible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members


One thing to note is that pituitary giantism today often tends to be crippling. If I recall Robert Wadlow was mostly confined to a weelchair. A considerable contrast to goliath who was "a man of war from his youth". Even big guys aren't going to make it in battle without plenty of speed and good reflexes.


That's a good point. But there is no doubt that many guys like Robert Wadlow existed back then and would have been called "giants".
There are quite a few pro basketball players and a few pro wrestlers who are huge guys too.

I agree with you Danny: the sons of God were descendents of Seth. I also believe that sons of God are believers throughout the Bible.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Wow, I guess you all might be correct, but it strikes me that those are mostly very naturalistic views.
I think the giants of the Bible were not merely tall tribes or victims of hormone issues, but a GLOBAL RACE of violent creatures unlike anything seen today, and they hold a key to understanding the fall of man, and also the reason for the destruction of the entire population of the planet. The word NEPHILIM means FALLEN ONES, and Israel was instructed to kill them all for a reason! They don't strike me as basketball players. That should stir the pot, lol... :thumb

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Wow, I guess you all might be correct, but it strikes me that those are mostly very naturalistic views.
I think the giants of the Bible were not merely tall tribes or victims of hormone issues, but a GLOBAL RACE of violent creatures unlike anything seen today, and they hold a key to understanding the fall of man, and also the reason for the destruction of the entire population of the planet. The word NEPHILIM means FALLEN ONES, and Israel was instructed to kill them all for a reason! They don't strike me as basketball players. That should stir the pot, lol... :thumb


The Bible says the earth was destroyed by a flood....
Now I'm going to give you the reason...
I KNOW the reason without a shadow of a doubt...
Are you ready for this???
Here goes...
>
>
>
>
>
>

because the "wickedness of MAN was great"
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
I think the giants of the Bible were not merely tall tribes or victims of hormone issues' date=' but a GLOBAL RACE of violent creatures unlike anything seen today, and they hold a key to understanding the fall of man, and also the reason for the destruction of the entire population of the planet.[/quote']

Creatures? The Bible teaches they were men. If you are trying to indicate that the sons of God were fallen angels, and therefore their "offspring" was mutated - the passage indicates the giants were there BEFORE the sons of God intermarried with the daughters of men.



Actually, they were instructed specifically to kill ALL the Canaanites - and a study of their religion and practices shows how evil they were as a whole. They had gotten to the point where they were now ripe for God's judgment:

Genesis 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Seems Americans have plenty to eat, but it seems the majority are getting broader more so than taller.

I'm just a bit over 5' 10', back in the early 90's when I met some of my birth family for the first time, one of my cousins asked me how I got so tall. Seems most that were on my mothers side of the family were all shorter than my 5' 10".

I noticed this with the kitten we have. We got it from a mother cat and Linda's dads. When we got it all of the kittens were the same size at Thanksgiving. Now the mother has just one left, its quite a bit larger than the one we have which I have been feeding it kitten cat food.

Maybe mothers milk grows stronger and larger cats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...