Judgement

[Jerry]

What I meant was that God gave them supernatural revelation in certain instances that He is not or will not give us. We do not and cannot know someone's heart - we can only judge their fruit - ie. actions, words, attitudes.

[Lighthouse]

What I meant was that God gave them supernatural revelation in certain instances that He is not or will not give us. We do not and cannot know someone's heart - we can only judge their fruit - ie. actions' date=' words, attitudes.[/quote']


actions, words, attitudes =MOTIVES :frog

[bzmomo7]

Ever been in a situation where your actions, words, and attitudes were mis-judged by someone else? I have. It doesn't always = motives. Sometimes things come out wrong from our mouths, or someone reads something in our body language that truly wasn't there. It happens all the time--just ask any married couple who have ever had a disagreement! :lol

[Lighthouse]

Ever been in a situation where your actions, words, and attitudes were mis-judged by someone else? I have. It doesn't always = motives. Sometimes things come out wrong from our mouths, or someone reads something in our body language that truly wasn't there. It happens all the time--just ask any married couple who have ever had a disagreement! :lol

true, I was hoping the understanding was that this was said "generally speaking" :hide

[Jerry]

actions' date=' words, attitudes =MOTIVES[/quote']

No it doesn't - a motive is the reason behing the actions, words, and attitudes.

Webster's 1828 Dictionary defines it this way:

[bzmomo7]

true, I was hoping the understanding was that this was said "generally speaking" :hide

I understand what you mean, but because you can't know 100% of the time, there is a danger of misjudging someone, and that is why God can only know 100% of the time where a man's heart is. If we say we can judge a person's motives for sure it is almost as if we are trying to take God's place......not a good position to be in. I do say to my kids sometimes, "...you should never do __________because it would make it appear as if your intentions might be __________, and you wouldn't want someone to think that you are like that. (because there ARE people out there who judge people's motives by their actions, and sometimes quite harshly and without forgiveness) I tell my children, we just need to be careful, call wrongdoing wrong when you see it, but be careful about attacking the person.

[JerryNumbers]

If someone is stealing, we know the motive.

If someone is involved in an adulterous affair we know their motive.

If someone is drunk we know their motive is not good at all.

There are situations where we have to be careful though.

[Jerry]

If someone is stealing, we know the motive.

If someone is involved in an adulterous affair we know their motive.

If someone is drunk we know their motive is not good at all.

There are situations where we have to be careful though.

No, you still don't know their motives - you can judge the action, but not the reason behind the action.

They could be drinking because they are depressed and giving up - and we may thing they are just a party animal, rebelling.

You always know WHY someone is stealing? I doubt it - they could be stealing because they are hungry, because they need money for drugs, because they have a coveting problem, because their friends dared them to do so and they wanted to fit in.

You always know the REASONS behind someone committing adultery? Is it love, lust, manipulation, a desire to throw it all away? The action is always sin - but that in itself does not reveal the motives behind the action.

The Bible commands us to judge the fruit - which would be their actions, words, testimony, attitudes - but we do not know their heart, their reasonings behind their actions, etc.

[Lighthouse]

I understand what you mean, but because you can't know 100% of the time, there is a danger of misjudging someone, and that is why God can only know 100% of the time where a man's heart is. If we say we can judge a person's motives for sure it is almost as if we are trying to take God's place......not a good position to be in. I do say to my kids sometimes, "...you should never do __________because it would make it appear as if your intentions might be __________, and you wouldn't want someone to think that you are like that. (because there ARE people out there who judge people's motives by their actions, and sometimes quite harshly and without forgiveness) I tell my children, we just need to be careful, call wrongdoing wrong when you see it, but be careful about attacking the person.

EXACTLY. There are some who "judge" people's actions and compare them to their own. This is unwise.

Same as judging motives.

there is a balance. No, I can't see people's hearts. However, you can know someone's reputation and seeing actions being manifested because of their motives. It is easy to spot.

[Madeline]

Clearly, we have to use our discernment in this life for many things, and that discernment and evaluation of possible or probable realities very often has to apply to people. I believe the type of "judging" we are commanded to refrain from is the attitude of malicious condemnation of others expressed in our hearts whose counterpart would be slander or "bad-mouthing" when expressed with our lips. It is certainly possible to see someone's conduct and form a biblically informed opinion about their likely spiritual status, but not their motives or intents of their hearts. But as long as we are not bearing a grudge, or hating them, or cursing them in our hearts or with our mouths, evaluating "without pronouncing judgment" is in my view not being disallowed by scripture. Jesus told us to be "wise as serpents" and "harmless as doves". Keeping an open mind about people, seeing them as God sees them, with a loving attitude, wanting them to be saved, wanting those saved to grow spiritually and stay spiritually safe, having their divine interests in mind instead of slipping into seeing others from our own selfish and self-serving point of view, requires the employment of a certain amount of evaluative discernment. The key it would seem to me is keeping any sinful behavior out of the mix. To the extent that our thinking, speaking, and behaving is motivated and controlled by the Spirit and has the true best interests of those concerned in mind from the divine viewpoint, to that extent our evaluation is not judgmental. But to the extent that our thoughts, words, and actions come from our flesh and are characterized by envy, jealously, antipathy, anger, ego, self-centeredness and the like, to that extent we most probably are entering into the very judgment that our Lord has forbidden.

1 Corinthians 4:5 - Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Love,
Madeline