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         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Article on "Once Saved, Always Saved!"


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You said: "Incorrect, side-step, theory, unbiblical, misused, spin, lack of understanding, nonsense, artificial and contrived."

Faith1611, judging by the fruit of your reply, you can't surely expect me to believe you are speaking by the Spirit of God and representing the truth of God? If the belief you hold to on this subject leads you to communicating in this manner to your 'Christian brethren' then I want nothing to do with it.

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

To me you are nothing but a wolf in sheep's clothing, but your sheep's disguise is weak, I can see the wolf a mile away. I hope the administrators of this forum can too.


false doctrine, wrong, non -Scriptural doctrines, damnable heresy, heretic are all words that have been used against me on this site; I haven't heard any complaints about that.....
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false doctrine, wrong, non -Scriptural doctrines, damnable heresy, heretic are all words that have been used against me on this site; I haven't heard any complaints about that.....



Well, that is called hypocrisy. The response to my post, which offered Scriptural exegesis and argument, was met with a personal attack claiming I am not saved, but a wolf! And this same individual complained about how I spoke and the words I used, and then called me a wolf. That sure is easier than admitting they can't answer my points and they are guilty of twisting Scripture. Edited by Faith1611
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You said: "Incorrect, side-step, theory, unbiblical, misused, spin, lack of understanding, nonsense, artificial and contrived."

Faith1611, judging by the fruit of your reply, you can't surely expect me to believe you are speaking by the Spirit of God and representing the truth of God? If the belief you hold to on this subject leads you to communicating in this manner to your 'Christian brethren' then I want nothing to do with it.

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

To me you are nothing but a wolf in sheep's clothing, but your sheep's disguise is weak, I can see the wolf a mile away. I hope the administrators of this forum can too.



So you call me a wolf after complaining about the words I used? You take it to this level, and claim I am hell-bound? This is hypocrisy. You claim I am not speaking by the Spirit of God? You surely are not because I am a born again believer who loves Jesus Christ and has been saved by Him. I am an elder in my church. The Spirit of God is the Spirit of truth, and what I wrote is true, therefore it is of the Spirit of God, Your response was not only a lie, but evasive as well. My post offered exegesis and argument. You avoided that, and instead seek to paint me as a deceiver so others won't listen. Such tactics are surely diabolical. Edited by Faith1611
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So you call me a wolf after complaining about the words I used? You take it to this level, and claim I am hell-bound? This is hypocrisy. You claim I am not speaking by the Spirit of God? You surely are not because I am a born again believer who loves Jesus Christ and has been saved by Him. I am an elder in my church. The Spirit of God is the Spirit of truth, and what I wrote is true, therefore it is of the Spirit of God, Your response was not only a lie, but evasive as well. My post offered exegesis and argument. You avoided that, and instead seek to paint me as a deceiver so others won't listen. Such tactics are surely diabolical.


Faith1611, the way I see it from here, you joined this forum 2 days ago and never made the effort to introduce yourself. You immediately dived into the Salvation Forum and began claiming that Christians can lose their salvation, 5 out of the mere 6 posts you've typed have argued against the belief that many of us hold dear, the eternal security of the believer. Several of your posts have been very confrontational and you have made some harsh accusations.

Jesus said "by their fruits ye shall know them", and I'm inspecting your fruit and it looks rotten to me.

Why are you here? Did you come for fellowship, to be edified, or just to debate? If your intentions for being here are honourable then why didn't you introduce yourself to the other members when you joined, and why is their no information about you in your profile?

So this is where I'm coming from when I say you're a wolf. Please prove me wrong with a Christ-like reply and I'll gladly apologize?
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Faith1611, the way I see it from here, you joined this forum 2 days ago and never made the effort to introduce yourself. You immediately dived into the Salvation Forum and began claiming that Christians can lose their salvation, 5 out of the mere 6 posts you've typed have argued against the belief that many of us hold dear, the eternal security of the believer. Several of your posts have been very confrontational and you have made some harsh accusations.

Jesus said "by their fruits ye shall know them", and I'm inspecting your fruit and it looks rotten to me.

Why are you here? Did you come for fellowship, to be edified, or just to debate? If your intentions for being here are honourable then why didn't you introduce yourself to the other members when you joined, and why is their no information about you in your profile?

So this is where I'm coming from when I say you're a wolf. Please prove me wrong with a Christ-like reply and I'll gladly apologize?


:amen: Plus the fact Scripture teaches that if we are saved, we are eternally saved. Upon salvation we are born again into the family of God and receive at that moment everlasting life.
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:amen: Plus the fact Scripture teaches that if we are saved, we are eternally saved. Upon salvation we are born again into the family of God and receive at that moment everlasting life.


Titus 1:2 says, " In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;" Titus 3:7 says, "That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life" Rom 8:24-25 says, "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? [25] But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it."

We can also look at other passages such as 1 John 2:24-25 which reads "......If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25: And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life." This is an If then statement....If x is true then y is true....what if x is not true then y is not true. If it remains in us then we remain in Christ; what if it does not remain in us? We can also look at 2 Peter 1:5-10 which again shows that we do not fall if we add these Christian graces to our lives. We can study the book of Hebrews which clearly speaks of the possibility of falling. Gal 5:4 clearly states we can fall from grace which we are saved by grace (Eph 2:8-10).
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John 10:28-29 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

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John 10:28-29 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


Absolutely, Jim. That passage teaches that no one can take my salvation from me but what it does not teach is that I am not able to turn away from the Lord.

Simon, in Acts 8:10ff, obeyed the Gospel and was saved and yet after being saved was told by Peter that he perished with his money; he was told to pray to the Lord that he might be forgiven. Would it not have been a sin for Peter to tell him that he perished if he was perfectly safe?

1 John 1:9 teaches us that the Lord will forgive us of our sins if we are willing to confess. What if we aren't? Will the Lord forgive us regardless? Will we be saved anyway? Jesus certainly stated that if we aren't willing to repent that we will perish (Luke 13:3, 5)

Jim, the Word of God is a wonderful comfort. Knowing that I am given the ability to be saved is a blessing and comfort. It is a comfort to know that His blood continues to to cleans me from all sin if I will simply walk in the Light (notice it does not say that I must live perfectly) (1 John 1:7). What is not a comfort is believing in something which is simply not in the Word of God. I don't need to believe in such in order to be comforted.
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John 10:28-29 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

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John 10:28-29 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

But does that REALLY mean "any man"? It doesn't say that I can't pluck myself out of His hand! Of course, I don't believe such silly reasoning, "any man" means me too! amen.gif
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Scripture is clear that if we are born again, that is, born into the family of God, we cannot become unborn spiritually any more than we can physically become unborn once we have been born physically.

First John makes it clear we can KNOW we are saved. We HAVE eternal life.

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The Bible is clear that "once saved always saved" is not truth. There are simply too many scriptures which clearly state that it is possible for one fall once he is saved.

Gal 5:4 states, "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." Remember we are saved by Grace (Eph 2:8-10)

1 Cor 10:12 says, "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall."

The Hebrew writer had much to say on this subject. Hebrew 2:1 reads, "Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip." 3:12 says, "take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God." 4:1 says, "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it."

Again, we have the exaple of Simon in Acts 8:10ff who fell and was told what he must do in order to be restored. Demas is said to have loved this world more than the Lord (2 Tim 4:10) and that he departed.

We can look at examples in prior to the coming of the kingdom. John 6:66 speaks of those who were Christ disciples and yet turned away and followed Him no more.

We can look at passages such as, previously mentioned, 1 John 1:7, 9 which both speak of conditions that are required to our continued cleansing by the blood of Christ and our forgiveness. We can look at chapter 2:24-25 which again demonstrates of conditions placed by God upon us if we are to remain in Christ and have eternal life.

We could look at the fact that we hope for eternal life and that anything hoped for is not yet seen......

How do you expalin these passages in context of your claim of OSAS? Think of how silly is was of Paul to warn of the possibilty of falling if it is not possible to fall? Think of the silliness of the Hebrew writer doing the same thing? Think of the uselessness of speaking of conditions which are not really required anyway.

The Bible is clear on this denominational doctrine; it clearly refutes it.

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Scripture is clear that if we are born again, that is, born into the family of God, we cannot become unborn spiritually any more than we can physically become unborn once we have been born physically.

First John makes it clear we can KNOW we are saved. We HAVE eternal life.


Yes, the Word does teach us taht we can know that we are saved. It doesn't teach us that we are not free to turn by from God. (See above post)
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Your misinterpretation. Properly understoond, they are not saying what you claim.

Scripture doesn't contradict itself and there are a plethora of verses which prove when one is born again in Christ he is eternally saved. For the Scripture to say otherwise elsewhere would be to reduce the Word to a contradiction...which it's not.

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Your misinterpretation. Properly understoond, they are not saying what you claim.

Scripture doesn't contradict itself and there are a plethora of verses which prove when one is born again in Christ he is eternally saved. For the Scripture to say otherwise elsewhere would be to reduce the Word to a contradiction...which it's not.


If I am misinterpreting, then please give a "proper" interpretation of these passages.

We can agree that the Bible does not contradict itself. These passages clearly refute OSAS so that would leave only one other possibility and that is that you are misapplying the passages that you use to attempt to prove OSAS.

I will leave it with what I wrote above. The truth is there, believe it or not. Edited by coc333
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You desire to contradict the Word of God. You can't proclaim one isn't saved eternally when Scripture is clear we are without misinterpretting other passages. Much of the truth has been pointed out to you yet you ignore it. An abundance of proof is available online, in books and sermons.

If you wish to believe the Word contradicts itself and never know your ultimate destination until you get there, then that's your choice.

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The Bible is clear that "once saved always saved" is not truth. There are simply too many scriptures which clearly state that it is possible for one fall once he is saved.


Firstly, "falling" in scripture doesn't necessarily mean losing your salvation.

Proverbs 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

Gal 5:4 states, "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." Remember we are saved by Grace (Eph 2:8-10)


A Christian is not justified by the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ (Ga 2:16), so the "whosoever" Paul is speaking to in Gal 5:4 are not saved people but those whom Christ has become of no effect, they are trusting in their works, therefore they are fallen from grace.

1 Cor 10:12 says, "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall."


This is supposed to "clearly state" that a Christian can fall from salvation, when there is no salvation mentioned in the verse or the context of the verse? The context is Israel's rebellion and how they reaped what they sowed, the same principle applies to us, but we don't lose our salvation and go to hell for it. The falling here can mean a number of things, falling from fellowship with the Lord, falling into temptation and a snare, etc.

The Hebrew writer had much to say on this subject. Hebrew 2:1 reads, "Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip." 3:12 says, "take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God." 4:1 says, "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it."


Hebrews was written to "Hebrews" and not the body of Christ, therefore the doctrine in it is for Israel and not the Christian. Some of the doctrine therein compliments Church Age doctrine but not in regards to salvation. There will be a future time when a person CAN lose their salvation, e.g. during the Tribulation if a believer takes the mark of the beast he will lose his salvation and be damned.

So one needs to be very careful trying to apply the salvation passages in Hebrews to the Christian today, they will contradict if you do not rightly divide the scripture and ascertain which group of people are being written to.

Again, we have the exaple of Simon in Acts 8:10ff who fell and was told what he must do in order to be restored. Demas is said to have loved this world more than the Lord (2 Tim 4:10) and that he departed.


There is no record that either of these believers lost their salvation. It's clear they sinned as we are all capable of, and Simon was told to repent, but no loss of salvation is mentioned in any verse.

We can look at examples in prior to the coming of the kingdom. John 6:66 speaks of those who were Christ disciples and yet turned away and followed Him no more.


There were no born again Christians in the context of John 6:66, neither had Jesus yet died on the cross, been buried, and risen from the dead, they were technically still under the Old Testament. So using it as an example of how a Christian can lose his salvation is pointless.

We can look at passages such as, previously mentioned, 1 John 1:7, 9 which both speak of conditions that are required to our continued cleansing by the blood of Christ and our forgiveness. We can look at chapter 2:24-25 which again demonstrates of conditions placed by God upon us if we are to remain in Christ and have eternal life.


The context of the 1 John passage you quote is "fellowship" with God, not salvation. A Christian is to confess his sins to God in order to stay in fellowship with God, keeping a right heart with God, not in order to stay saved.

Redemption and forgiveness of sins is through the blood of Jesus Christ, not through our confession of sins on a regular basis.

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

How do you expalin these passages in context of your claim of OSAS?


I've given these explanations for the benefit of others who are reading this thread.

Coc33, it's apparent to me that you are getting confused between a person falling from fellowship with God and falling from salvation. None of the passages you quote "clearly" show a person losing their salvation, but rather show people who either were never saved to begin with, or people who are saved and fall into sin, the exception being the doctrine to Israel during the Tribulation.

A Christian can fall away from God into sin, which disrupts fellowship between them and the Lord, but this does not result in damnation. It will result in chastisement because he/she is a son of God, and may even result in physical death, but the Bible doesn't teach that a Christian can lose the salvation of their soul, at all.

1 Corinthians 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Proverbs 3:11 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction: 12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.
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    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 0 replies
    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 1 reply
    • Razor

      Psalms 139 Psalm 139:9-10
      9. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10. even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy righthand shall hold me. 
       
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West  »  Pastor Scott Markle

      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
      I really do not know where you are going with this. The Bible itself has revelations and prophecies and not all revelations are prophecies.
      Paul had things revealed to him that were hid and unknown that the Gentiles would be fellow heirs.
      How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:3-9
      And I do not mean this as a Hyper-dispensationalist would, for there were people in Christ before Paul (Rom. 16:7). This is not prophecy for there are none concerning the Church age in the O.T..
      Israel rejected the New Wine (Jesus Christ) and said the Old Wine (law) was better, had they tasted the New Wine there would be no church age or mystery as spoken above. to be revealed.
      It was a revealed mystery. Sure there are things concerning the Gentiles after the this age. And we can now see types in the Old Testament (Boaz and Ruth) concerning a Gentile bride, but this is hindsight.
      Peter could have had a ham sandwich in Acts 2, but he did not know it till later, by revelation. But this has nothing to do with 1John 2;23 and those 10 added words in italics. Where did they get them? Did the violate Pro. 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Where did they get this advance revelation? Was it from man, God or the devil?
        I just read your comment and you bypassed what I wrote concerning book arrangement, chapters being added and verse numberings and such. There is no scripture support for these either, should we reject these?
      Happy New Year
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West

      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
      SCRIPTURAL MARY

      I WALK NOT ON WATER NOR CHANGE IT TO WINE
      SO HEARKEN O’ SINNER TO THIS STORY OF MINE
      I, AM A DAUGHTER OF ABRAHAM SINNER BY BIRTH
      A HAND MAID OF LOW ESTATE USED HERE ON EARTH
      MY HAIR IS NOT GENTILE BLOND, I HAVE NOT EYES OF BLUE
      A MOTHER OF MANY CHILDREN A DAUGHTER OF A JEW
      FOR JOSEPH MY HUSBAND DID HONOUR OUR BED
      TO FATHER OUR CHILDREN WHO NOW ARE ALL DEAD
      BUT I SPEAK NOT OF THESE WHO I LOVED SO WELL
      BUT OF THE FIRST BORN WHICH SAVED ME FROM HELL
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               2
      WHEN I WAS A VIRGIN UNKNOWN BY MAN
      THE ANGEL OF GOD SPOKE OF GOD’S PLAN
      FOR I HAD BEEN CHOSEN A FAVOUR VESSEL OF CLAY
      TO BARE THE SON OF THE HIGHEST BY AN UNUSUAL WAY
      FOR THE SCRIPTURE FORETOLD OF WHAT WAS TO BE
      SO MY WOMB GOD FILLED WHEN HE OVER SHADOW ME
      BUT THE LAW OF MOSES DID DEMAND MY LIFE
      WOULD JOSEPH MY BETROTHED MAKE ME HIS WIFE
      I THOUGHT ON THESE THINGS WITH SO NEEDLESS FEARS
      BUT A DREAM HE RECEIVED ENDED ALL FEARS
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                              3
      THEN MY SOUL DID REJOICE IN GOD MY SAVIOR
      HE SCATTERED THE PROUD AND BLESS ME WITH FAVOR
      O’ THE RICH ARE EMPTY, THE HUNGRY HAVE GOOD THINGS
      FOR THE THRONE OF DAVID WOULD HAVE JESUS THE KING
      BUT BEFORE I DELIVERED THE MAN CHILD OF OLD
      CAESAR WITH TAXES DEMANDED OUR GOLD
      TO THE CITY OF DAVID JOSEPH AND I WENT
      ON A BEAST OF BURDEN OUR STRENGTH NEAR SPEND
      NO ROOM AT An INN, BUT A STABLE WAS FOUND
      WITH STRAW AND DUNG LAID ON THE GROUND
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
                                                  4
      MY MATRIX WAS OPEN IN A PLACE SO PROFANE
      FROM THE GLORY OF GLORIES TO A BEGGAR’S DOMAIN
      SO WE WRAPPED THE CHILD GIVEN TO THE HEATHEN A STRANGER
      NO REPUTATION IS SOUGHT TO BE BORN IN A MANGER
      HIS STAR WAS ABOVE US THE HOST OF HEAVEN DID SING
      FOR SHEPHERDS AND WISE MEN WORSHIP ONLY THE KING
      BUT HEROD THAT DEVIL SOUGHT FOR HIS SOUL
      AND MURDER RACHEL’S CHILDREN UNDER TWO YEARS OLD
      BUT JOSEPH MY HUSBAND WAS WARNED IN A DREAM
      SO WE FLED INTO EGYPT BECAUSE OF HIS SCHEME
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               5
      SO THE GIVER OF LIFE, THE ROCK OF ALL AGES
      GREW UP TO FULFILL THE HOLY PAGES
      HE PREACH WITH AUTHORITY LIKE NONE BEFORE
      PLEASE TRUST HIS WORDS AND NOT THE GREAT WHORE
      HER BLACK ROBE PRIEST FILL THEIR LIPS WITH MY NAME
      WITH BLASPHEMOUS PRAISE, DAMMATION AND SHAME
      THERE ARE NO NAIL PRINTS IN MY HANDS, MY BODY DID NOT ARISE
      NOR, AM A DEMON OF FATIMA FLOATING IN THE SKY
      THERE IS NO DEITY IN MY VEINS FOR ADAM CAME FROM SOD
      FOR I, AM, MOTHER OF THE SON OF MAN NOT THE MOTHER OF GOD
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
      6
      FOR MY SOUL WAS PURCHASED BY GOD UPON THE CROSS
      FOR MY SINS HE DID SUFFER AN UNMEASURABLE COST
      I WILL NOT STEAL HIS GLORY WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD
      ENDURING SPIT AND THORNS PLACED ON HIS HEAD
      YET, IF YOU WISH TO HONOR ME THEN GIVE ME NONE AT ALL
      BUT TRUST THE LAMB WHO STOOL IN PILATE’S HALL
      CALL NOT ON THIS REDEEMED WOMAN IN YOUR TIME OF FEAR
      FOR I WILL NOT GIVE ANSWER NEITHER WILL I HEAR
      AND WHEN THE BOOKS ARE OPEN AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE
      I AMEN YOUR DAMNATION THAT TRUST NOT HIM ALONE
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, O’ SINNER TRUST ME NOT

                       WRITTEN BY BRO. WEST
       
      · 0 replies
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