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         14
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Article on "Once Saved, Always Saved!"


ELI3
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Once Saved, Always Saved!


If you do not believe that Jesus has saved your soul from Hell forever; can you really claim to be "saved" at all?

Although there are many different denominations that claim to be "Christian"; there are basically only two kinds of belief about salvation among them.
The more popular belief teaches that salvation is something that can be gained and lost many times in this life. It claims that a person is saved by grace initially, but that there is always the possibility of him doing something wrong at a later time that would cause him to lose his salvation. If he happens to die in a lost condition, he goes to Hell, even though he may have been in a "saved" condition earlier. Because of this, he can never know for sure that his soul is safe from Hell until he has actually made it to Heaven.
The other belief is that salvation can be received only once, and that it can never be lost. It teaches that once a person truly repents and trusts Jesus Christ to save him, he immediately receives everlasting life and can know for sure that he is going to Heaven when he dies.
Think about it! These two beliefs are completely opposite of each other. One glorifies man, while the other glorifies God.
Which of these two beliefs does your church teach?
Which of these two beliefs are right?
Let's see what the Bible says about it. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ ]esus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." (Eph. 2:8-10)
From these verses of Scripture, there are three things to consider:

FIRST - THE GRACE OF SALVATION "For by grace are ye saved... the gift of God..."
Grace is the positive side of mercy. Mercy is when God doesn't give us something bad that we really deserve (everlasting damnation). Whereas, grace is when God gives us something good that we really don't deserve (everlasting life).
In the context of salvation; grace is best explained by the idea of a free gift. The Bible says that "the GIFT of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Rom. 6:23)
When God offers us salvation as a gift, it is truly an "act of grace" on His part, because He is doing it out of a pure love for us. After all, God doesn't really need us. He could have gotten along just fine without us. "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." (Rom. 5 :8)
The "grace of salvation" completely eliminates the possibility that a sinner can do anything to make himself worthy of eternal life; because if he could, then God would be in debt to him. In the application of salvation, this would deny God glory and the credit of grace on His part. "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt." (Rom. 4:4)
Many people state that they believe that salvation is by grace initially, but they think that it is possible for them to lose it. Actually, however, THEY ARE REALLY BELIEVING A "SALVATION BY WORKS"!
They claim that they must hold on to their salvation by faithfully doing certain righteous activities such as " going to church, keeping the commandments, praying daily, etc." They warn that if one slacks off from doing these things, it could cause him to fall back into sin, thus losing his salvation. But if this were so; then when anyone finally made it to Heaven, they could boast how they got there because they had faithfully "gone to church, tried to keep the commandments, prayed daily, etc." These righteous activities became their "works" that determined whether they would be "finally" saved or not. These "works" would cancel out salvation by the grace of God, for if it is "...by grace, then is it NO MORE OF WORKS; otherwise GRACE IS NO MORE GRACE..." (Rom.11:16)
The Bible says: "Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the LAW OF FAITH." (Rom. 3:27)

SECOND - THE FAITH FOR SALVATION "Through faith ... Not of works ..."
While "works" cancels out salvation by grace, "faith" compliments it. "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace... " (Rom 4:16)
Faith is the channel through which salvation is imparted to the soul.
WHAT YOU BELIEVE WHEN YOU ASK JESUS TO SAVE YOU DETERMINES WHETHER YOU RECEIVE SALVATION OR NOT.
Jesus demonstrated this spiritual principle when He healed the centurion's servant: "...as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee." (Matt. 8:13) Also, when He healed the two blind men: "According to your faith be it unto you." (Matt. 9:29)
In salvation by grace, "faith" is trusting God to do by His OWN POWER what He has promised to do (give everlasting life). In other words, SAVE you from what you deserve, which is everlasting damnation in Hell.
In order for anyone to really receive "everlasting life", they must understand and believe that God will give it to them ONE TIME, FOREVER!
Jesus emphasized this principle of faith when He said: "Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire (everlasting life), when ye pray, BELIEVE THAT YE RECEIVE THEM, and YE SHALL HAVE THEM." (Mark 11:24)
If you are waiting to see whether you get to Heaven or not before you can know that you are FINALLY SAVED, you have not BELIEVED that you received EVERLASTING life through Jesus Christ. You are still DOUBTING HIS POWER and are trusting in your own righteousness.
Those of you who believe that a person could lose his salvation, cannot really claim to be saved "by grace through faith". Of course, at this present time you are not in Hell, so you can say that you are "safe" for the moment. But remember, you are not in Heaven yet either; and you don't believe that you will be "eternally saved" until you get there.
Really, YOU DON'T HAVE FAITH FOR SALVATION ANY MORE THAN THE WORST LIVING ATHEIST, because he is not in Hell yet, either! In fact, as long as any person is physically alive, he can claim to be safe from Hell for the present moment. However, IT TAKES FAITH TO BELIEVE THAT CHRIST HAS SAVED YOUR SOUL FOR ALL FUTURE MOMENTS!
Let's just consider something for a moment. Suppose it were true that a person who was once "saved" could be lost again. But suppose this person never did get saved the second time and ended up dying as a lost man, going to Hell; after having once been "saved"? What was he saved from? Was he saved from the penalty of sin? No; because he did not escape Hell. Was he saved from the power of sin? No; for apparently he fell back into sin and died as a lost man. And we know that he wasn't saved from the presence of sin; because as long as we are in this life, we will be living in the presence of sin. What was he really saved from then? The obvious answer is NOTHING AT ALL! He may have claimed that he was saved. His friends and relatives may have thought that he was saved. He may have even tried to act as though he were saved. But in the final end of it all, since he went to Hell, HE WAS NEVER SAVED FROM ANYTHING IN THE FIRST PLACE!

THIRD - THE WORKS FROM SALVATION "For we are his workmanship..."
When it comes to "works" in salvation, most people try to put the cart before the horse.
They feel that if the threat of losing their salvation isn't there, it will lead to lawlessness. They do not understand the perfect righteousness of God or that good works are a RESULT of salvation.
For instance, consider an apple tree: it doesn't bear apples to become an apple tree; neither does it bear apples to stay an apple tree. It bears apples because God made it an apple tree.
Just the same with a true Christian; he doesn't strive to live holy or do good works to get saved, or stay saved. He does it BECAUSE GOD HAS SAVED HIM AND LIVES IN HIM! It has become part of his nature. "For it is God which worketh in you to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Phil. 2:13) He is God's "workmanship"; just like a watch is the "workmanship" of the watchmaker.
Remember, once you have sincerely repented and completely trusted the salvation of your soul to Jesus Christ forever, you can be confident that He will never let you lose your salvation. For He is the "AUTHOR AND FINISHER" of your faith! WHATEVER GOD STARTS, HE FINISHES! "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ." (Phil. 1:6)
Friend, the Bible says: "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in THE FAITH ..." (II Cor. 13:5)
Maybe, after reading this, you have realized for the first time that, because you had always thought that you could lose your salvation, you have never really had enough faith to believe that Jesus could save your soul one time, forever.
Right now, why don't you ask Him to, believing that He will?
Remember, the very moment that you sincerely repent and completely trust Jesus to save your soul from Hell, THAT VERY MOMENT , YOU ARE SAVED... FOREVER!

ELI

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Once Saved, Always Saved!
If you do not believe that Jesus has saved your soul from Hell forever; can you really claim to be "saved" at all?
Which of these two beliefs does your church teach?
Which of these two beliefs are right?
Right now, why don't you ask Him to, believing that He will?
Remember, the very moment that you sincerely repent and completely trust Jesus to save your soul from Hell, THAT VERY MOMENT , YOU ARE SAVED... FOREVER!
ELI

:goodpost:
Good questions to meditate on NOW!
Hand in hand with the Doctrine of Salvation!
The answers are in the scriptures.
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"For instance, consider an apple tree: it doesn't bear apples to become an apple tree; neither does it bear apples to stay an apple tree. It bears apples because God made it an apple tree.
Just the same with a true Christian; he doesn't strive to live holy or do good works to get saved, or stay saved. He does it BECAUSE GOD HAS SAVED HIM AND LIVES IN HIM! It has become part of his nature. "For it is God which worketh in you to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Phil. 2:13)"

:clap:

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Those who teach one can lose salvation must add to the Word of God and deny it's promises.
John 5:24
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life,until he sins and loses it and shall not come into condemnation;as long as he lives right, holds tight and endures to the end but is passed from death unto life. unless he passes back again.

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"For instance, consider an apple tree: it doesn't bear apples to become an apple tree; neither does it bear apples to stay an apple tree. It bears apples because God made it an apple tree.
Just the same with a true Christian; he doesn't strive to live holy or do good works to get saved, or stay saved. He does it BECAUSE GOD HAS SAVED HIM AND LIVES IN HIM! It has become part of his nature. "For it is God which worketh in you to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Phil. 2:13)"

:clap:


Now thats a good illustration - I use one much similar in soul winning, particularly in lost people who claim to be saved. An "apple tree" I tell them, doesn't produce pine cones.... If year after year all I ever see on my "apple" tree are pine needles and pine cones, sooner or later I must come to terms with the reality that my apple tree is not an apple tree at all. It is in fact a pine tree. Stringing apples into it and setting in the midst of an apple tree orchard might help it blend in better with real apple trees.....but in the end....the harvest season will come and there shall be naught but pine cones strewn about under it.... for it was a pine tree all along. Kind of simple....but I find that often works best in the spiritually blind.
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To teach that salvation can be lost - is to make the blood of Christ equal to the blood of goats and bulls (Heb 10). It is to say that the blood of the Lamb of God was temporary blood much as was the blood of the O.T. sacrifices..... We of course know that the Blood of Jesus Christ was shed once.....because it is permanent blood and must be shed but once, applied but once and secures "eternal salvation" [Heb 5:9] {not temporary salvation} as erroniously taught by many.

How it can be missed that Heb 6 says IF it could BE LOST, it could never be regained - is beyond me..... it's so screaming obvious once you learn that man is a trinity "Spirit, Soul and Body" [i Thess 5:23] that you wonder if Paul didn't have this in mind when he said "if a man be ignorant....let him be ignorant".

I am thankful God is keeping me an apple tree and not me.

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Although I believe in what you call "once saved always saved" I often think about certain situations, such as: What if a man is a strong professing Christian. He maintains and firmly believes that he is saved by grace through faith. One day his family is killed in a horrible accident. He is depressed. He loses hope. From that day forward, until the day he dies, he denies even the existence of God. Is he still "saved?"

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Although I believe in what you call "once saved always saved" I often think about certain situations' date=' such as: What if a man is a strong professing Christian. He maintains and firmly believes that he is saved by grace through faith. One day his family is killed in a horrible accident. He is depressed. He loses hope. From that day forward, until the day he dies, he denies even the existence of God. Is he still "saved?"


If he was truly saved to begin with, yes he is still saved.
There's a BIG difference in a child of God, born from above, and a mere "professing Christian".
But real children of God, have and do sometimes live in unbelief. But it is God who is faithful.
The prodigal son, left his father, but he was still a son.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
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If he was truly saved to begin with, yes he is still saved.
There's a BIG difference in a child of God, born from above, and a mere "professing Christian".
But real children of God, have and do sometimes live in unbelief. But it is God who is faithful.
The prodigal son, left his father, but he was still a son.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.


Just for discussion sake: What if a "saved" person starts going to a Roman Catholic church, sincerely adopting all of its beliefs and practices. Is he still "saved"?

(please note that I do not share this board's majority view regarding Roman Catholocism)
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Just for discussion sake: What if a "saved" person starts going to a Roman Catholic church, sincerely adopting all of its beliefs and practices. Is he still "saved"?

(please note that I do not share this board's majority view regarding Roman Catholocism)


A Saved person, born again, Heaven bound with the hammer down can fall into any kind of sin; including false religion. But the Bible clearly teaches that God chastens those that are His and it teaches there is a sin unto death. God does not let His children get away with sin.

Here is one saved man who went after false religion. [bible]1 Kings 11:4[/bible]
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Just for discussion sake: What if a "saved" person starts going to a Roman Catholic church' date=' sincerely adopting all of its beliefs and practices. Is he still "saved"?[/quote']

Interesting question. Not that my option matters much, but I would say if a person holds to Sola Fide belief, then they must say that even if a person becomes Roman Catholic they would still be saved. If one truly believes faith can never be lost no matter what they do for the rest of their lives.

As a side note: Catholics don't believe you should live in fear, that would be a loss of hope and faith. But a Catholic believes that if you turn your back on God (denial of God), that is when one losses salvation.
(sinning doesn't loose salvation, it can lead to it no doubt, but it is the denial of God that we choose hell)
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John 3:3 "born again" Christians....are children of God. Once a child always a child.... even a disobedient and rebellious child is still a child, even if a disappointment. Children are dealt with according to thier level of disobedience.... even up to and including physical death "that the spirit may be saved" ... John said "that which is born of God (John 3:3 ye must be born again) cannot sin. The flesh can and it suffers the consequences of sin i.e. Moses died on the other side of Jordan for his sin of striking the rock, but after his flesh paid for it's sin, we find Moses standing IN the promised land with Jesus! in Matt 17 because Moses died in Faith! His body was buried on the other side of Jordan, but his redeemed soul was with the Lord! Amen!!!

Eternal security is literally everywhere in scripture.... it is inescapable. The Ark of Noah.... the Tabernacle....
The offerings vs Hebrews "one sacrifice"..... everywhere we turn....there it is.

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Just for discussion sake: What if a "saved" person starts going to a Roman Catholic church, sincerely adopting all of its beliefs and practices. Is he still "saved"?

(please note that I do not share this board's majority view regarding Roman Catholocism)


Yes, but they will be brought back under bondage as the Galatian Christians were.
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John 3:3 "born again" Christians....are children of God. Once a child always a child.... even a disobedient and rebellious child is still a child, even if a disappointment. Children are dealt with according to thier level of disobedience.... even up to and including physical death "that the spirit may be saved" ... John said "that which is born of God (John 3:3 ye must be born again) cannot sin. The flesh can and it suffers the consequences of sin i.e. Moses died on the other side of Jordan for his sin of striking the rock, but after his flesh paid for it's sin, we find Moses standing IN the promised land with Jesus! in Matt 17 because Moses died in Faith! His body was buried on the other side of Jordan, but his redeemed soul was with the Lord! Amen!!!

Eternal security is literally everywhere in scripture.... it is inescapable. The Ark of Noah.... the Tabernacle....
The offerings vs Hebrews "one sacrifice"..... everywhere we turn....there it is.


Amen......that's right. :amen:
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Those who teach one can lose salvation must add to the Word of God and deny it's promises.
John 5:24
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life,until he sins and loses it and shall not come into condemnation;as long as he lives right, holds tight and endures to the end but is passed from death unto life. unless he passes back again.


Nothing can separate me from God's gift of eternal life except the very thing that allowed God to give me this eternal life: My Faith. Edited by God's Child
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Romans 8:37
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Not only that but God is my Father...and I am His son....
When my earthly father begat me, I inherited his likeness, his characteristics, his nature, his wealth, his name, and there is nothing which can change the fact that I am his biological son. I will always be his son. It's the same with my Heavenly Father. When He begets you, you are His son and nothing you can do will change that.

Edited by heartstrings
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Romans 8:37
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Not only that but God is my Father...and I am His son....
When my earthly father begat me, I inherited his likeness, his characteristics, his nature, his wealth, his name, and there is nothing which can change the fact that I am his biological son. I will always be his son. It's the same with my Heavenly Father. When He begets you, you are His son and nothing you can do will change that.


When a person shows no signs of change after being "born again" do you just assume they didn't have saving faith? Or, do you accept their salvation based on their moment of possible belief?
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When a person shows no signs of change after being "born again" do you just assume they didn't have saving faith? Or, do you accept their salvation based on their moment of possible belief?


If a person shows no signs of change after proclaiming to be born again that's indication they were not born again.

Scripture warns us to examine our faith to make sure we are in Christ. If we are truly born again there will be marked change in our lives and the longer we are in Christ the more closely we will follow Him.

Jesus said if we love Him we will keep His commandments. This also serves as a warning to any who profess to be saved yet reject His commandments or refuse to walk in them.

Jesus asked many why they were calling Him Lord when they were not doing as He said. Elsewhere we learn that many will one day stand before Christ and hear Him tell them He never knew them before He casts them into hell.

In First John we are told we can KNOW we are saved.
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When a person shows no signs of change after being "born again" do you just assume they didn't have saving faith? Or, do you accept their salvation based on their moment of possible belief?


Like John 81 says, the only way I can assume another person is saved is by seeing a change in their life, or the fruit of the Spirit working and bearing witness to me.
I can see a change in their life, but I can't see into their heart; only God can do that. But I can be certain of my own salvation because I was there when Jesus came into my heart, and I know what He did for me. The people in the church house could hear me tearfully cry out "Jesus!" as I hurried to the altar, but only He and I knew that He filled me with His Spirit. So really, they had to see a change in my life as well. Edited by heartstrings
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Like John 81 says, the only way I can assume another person is saved is by seeing a change in their life, or the fruit of the Spirit working and bearing witness to me.
I can see a change in their life, but I can't see into their heart; only God can do that. But I can be certain of my own salvation because I was there when Jesus came into my heart, and I know what He did for me. The people in the church house could hear me tearfully cry out "Jesus!" as I hurried to the altar, but only He and I knew that He filled me with His Spirit. So really, they had to see a change in my life as well.

What is this "Altar"?

That is in RC churches.
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