Common Figure of Speech?

[rstrats]

There are some folks who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week. The Messiah said that He would be in the "heart of the earth" for 3 days and 3 nights (Matthew 12:40).   Of those who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week, there are some who think that the "heart of the earth" mentioned in the verse is referring to the tomb.  However, a 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection allows for only 2 nights to be involved with the Messiah's time in the tomb.   To account for the lack of a 3rd night, there may be some of those mentioned above who try to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language. And that is the only issue of this topic, i.e., the commonality of saying that a daytime or a night time was forecast or said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have occurred. I'm simply asking anyone who may fall in the above group of believers if they might provide actual examples/instances to support the belief of commonality.         

[Jim_Alaska]

This is a very old topic. It has been hashed over relentlessly. Please do a search before making a new thread on the same subject, as our forum owner suggests in his TOS,

[rstrats]

6 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

This is a very old topic. It has been hashed over relentlessly. Please do a search before making a new thread on the same subject, as our forum owner suggests in his TOS,

I did do a search and the topic had been closed before the information requested had been provided.  Someone new looking in since then may know of examples. 

[Jerry]

The Bible teaches that there were two sabbaths that week - a ceremonial sabbath (which occurs the day after Passover, regardless of which day of the week it falls upon) and the weekly sabbath (which is basically Saturday). Jesus would have had to have been crucified on Wednesday morning and laid in the tomb just before sundown on Wednesday afternoon. The next day was the ceremonial sabbath, then Friday, then the weekly sabbath - then Jesus arose sometime after sundown on the sabbath (ie. Saturday evening or night). That gives three full days and three full nights, takes into account the two sabbaths (and the events mentioned - ie. the women preparing the spices BEFORE one sabbath, but not coming to the tomb until AFTER the sabbath), and shows that when the women came early Sunday morning (while it was still dark), the tomb was already empty.

The women did not have time to prepare the spices before Jesus died and was buried - so this is referring to the ceremonial sabbath:

Luke 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

When they came Sunday morning, the spices were already prepared - from two days before:

Luke 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

Mark 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

We just need to disregard foolish Catholic and Protestant traditions, which many have carried over into Evangelicalism, and stick with what the Bible says - even if it contradicts most of the world!

[rstrats]

14 minutes ago, Jerry said:

The Bible teaches that there were two sabbaths that week - a ceremonial sabbath (which occurs the day after Passover, regardless of which day of the week it falls upon) and the weekly sabbath (which is basically Saturday). Jesus would have had to have been crucified on Wednesday morning and laid in the tomb just before sundown on Wednesday afternoon. The next day was the ceremonial sabbath, then Friday, then the weekly sabbath - then Jesus arose sometime after sundown on the sabbath (ie. Saturday evening or night). That gives three full days and three full nights, takes into account the two sabbaths (and the events mentioned - ie. the women preparing the spices BEFORE one sabbath, but not coming to the tomb until AFTER the sabbath), and shows that when the women came early Sunday morning (while it was still dark), the tomb was already empty.

The women did not have time to prepare the spices before Jesus died and was buried - so this is referring to the ceremonial sabbath:

Luke 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

When they came Sunday morning, the spices were already prepared - from two days before:

Luke 24:1 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.

Mark 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

We just need to disregard foolish Catholic and Protestant traditions, which many have carried over into Evangelicalism, and stick with what the Bible says - even if it contradicts most of the world!

Your comments deal with issues for a different topic. 

[bluewater]

"and be raised up on the third day." (Mat 16:21)

To be resurrected "on" the third day is to be resurrected during that very day, during any portion of that day.

If Jesus' body was dead three full 24-hour periods, then He would have been raised on the fourth day.

[rstrats]

15 hours ago, bluewater said:

"and be raised up on the third day." (Mat 16:21)

To be resurrected "on" the third day is to be resurrected during that very day, during any portion of that day.

If Jesus' body was dead three full 24-hour periods, then He would have been raised on the fourth day.

Your post about the 4th day is with regard to a different issue. 

 

BTW, Mark 8:31 says that the Messiah would be raised after 3 days.  And that is in line with Luke 24:21 and Matthew 12:40.  So all the verses which say on the 3rd day have to be referring to the 3rd day after His death. 
 

[rstrats]

The phrase in the OP -  "...there are some who think that the 'heart of the earth' mentioned in the verse is referring to the tomb" should be changed to read - "...there are some who think that the 'heart of the earth' mentioned in the verse is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to when His spirit left His body."

[DaveW]

Do not ask me questions about this post, because I am simply quoting from an article I have. I do not agree with this personally. I do know the person who wrote the article, but I do not feel I have the right to name him, so do not ask.

I will not explain any point of it further because it is not my article, I did not write it, I do not agree with it, and I should not therefore explain it.

I provide it simply because it seems to me that it at least in part provides some answer to your question.

If you want any clarification on any part of it, I am both unable and unwilling to give such.

Quote

But what about the sign of the prophet Jonas (Jonah)?!

                   Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of  man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

True, this is the oft quoted verse to support a Wednesday (or Thursday) crucifixion, and it does seem pretty cut-and-dried, as they say.  But it’s worth noting, that the people to whom Jesus gave the sign of Jonas understood that he meant that he would rise again ON the third day.

                   Mat 12:38-40 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we  would see a sign from thee. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

                   Mat 27:63-64  Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After  three days I will rise again. Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.

 

For a slightly more detailed reason, keep reading:

The real question is did Jesus literally rise ON the third day or was he literally buried for three days and three nights?  Both cannot be true.  If Jesus was buried for a literal three day and three nights, then he would have risen after the completion of three nights, which would mean he rose ON the fourth day.

Either the first day of the week was literally the third day or he was literally in the grave for three days and three nights, both cannot be literal.  One must be literal and one must be figurative.

It is easier to explain the sign of Jonas as being figurative than the other option.  The sign of Jonas, used by Jesus, was a synecdoche.  Simply put a synecdoche is when a part represents a whole (or vice-versa).  In other words, “three days and three nights” is a figure of speech that represents 3 days.  It must be noted that the Jews had a figure of speech which always had the same number of days and nights.  For instance:

                          Moses fasted forty days and forty nights (Exodus 24.18). 

                           Jonah was in the fish three days and three nights (Jonah 1.17). 

                           Job's friends sat with him seven days and seven nights (Job 2.13).

An example of this is found in the Book of Esther where the queen said that no one was to eat or drink for three days, night or day, but on the third day, when only two nights had passed, she went into the king's chamber and the fast was ended.

                   Est 4:15-16 Then Esther bade them return Mordecai this answer, Go, gather together all the  Jews that are present in Shushan, and fast ye for me, and neither eat nor drink three days, night or day: I also and my maidens will fast likewise; and so will I go in unto the king, which is not according to the law: and if I perish, I perish.

                   Est 5:1 Now it came to pass on the third day, that Esther put on her royal apparel, and stood in  the inner court of the king's house, over against the king's house: and the king sat upon his royal  throne in the royal house, over against the gate of the house.

It is difficult to hold to a literal interpretation of Matthew 12:40 when you consider the mountain of Bible evidence which seemingly contradict this one verse.  Now, do we hold to our traditional view of Matthew

12:40 and “wrest” all the other verses which also seem plain, or do we change our traditional interpretation of Matthew 12:40 so that a multitude of verses remain harmonized?   I for one choose the multitude of clear verses over the one seemingly clear verse.

I also do not know why he chose to use red to highlight portions. This potentially causes confusion, as most of us are used to "red letter" Bibles, where the red indicates the words of Christ. It is not important, but it is confusing to those who are used to red letter Bibles.

 

[rstrats]

6 hours ago, DaveW said:

 

I provide it simply because it seems to me that it at least in part provides some answer to your question.

I

 

 The article does provide 1 possible part, but only if "three days, night or day" means the same thing as "three days and three nights".    However, 1 example would not show commonality which is the issue of this topic. 

[rstrats]

Maybe someone new looking in may know of examples (plural).  

[rstrats]

 And remember, the someone new needs to be someone who thinks the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week, and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb and who tries to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language.

[rstrats]

Since it's been awhile, someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.