Soul

[trc123]

Do you take all of Revelation literally ?
Then why not Malachi 4 ?
Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

Malachi 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do [this], saith the LORD of hosts.

Here it says that they will burn up.

Okay.....so?

[Biblema]

and be reduced to "

[trc123]

and be reduced to "

[Biblema]

[trc123]

Okay? So............? None of that says anything about a soul burning to ashes and ceasing to exist.

[Biblema]

If God says that is will die ,why do you say that it will remain alive ?

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing...

What is a soul ?
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Form of dust + breath of God = living soul.

Psalms 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.

Living soul take away breath of God = death and return to dust .

It is at the 2nd coming that we put on immortality (see 1 Corinthians 15 :51-54)

[trc123]

Ok well what is a soul ?

Hmmmmm.............I'm thinking a soul is of a spiritual nature and is not physical in the sense of our carbon based body. But, I've been wrong before......ask my wife of 29 years!

[Biblema]

Please refer to my previous post .

There is no Biblical evidence for any part of man existing seperate from his physical nature .

John 3:16 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Only the whosoever believeth recieve everlasting life .Jesus makes a clear distinction between the duration of life of those that believeth and those that by contrast perish.

[trc123]

Hey, I'm just a passing through...........this is only a container......a tabernacle...................even you can see that.................!

[Biblema]

Peter on the Day of Pentecost declared that the patriarch David "is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day." "For David is not ascended into the heavens." Acts 2:29, 34. The fact that David remains in the grave until the resurrection proves that the righteous do not go to heaven at death. It is only through the resurrection, and by virtue of the fact that Christ has risen, that David can at last sit at the right hand of God.
And said Paul: "If the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: and if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished." 1 Corinthians 15:16-18. If for four thousand years the righteous had gone directly to heaven at death, how could Paul have said that if there is no resurrection, "they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished"? No resurrection would be necessary.


The martyr Tyndale, referring to the state of the dead, declared: "I confess openly, that I am not persuaded that they be already in the full glory that Christ is in, or the elect angels of God are in. Neither is it any article of my faith; for if it were so, I see not but then the preaching of the resurrection of the flesh were a thing in vain."--William Tyndale, Preface to New Testament (ed. 1534). Reprinted in British Reformers--Tindal, Frith, Barnes, page 34

The theory of the immortality of the soul was one of those false doctrines that Rome, borrowing from paganism, incorporated into the religion of Christendom. Martin Luther classed it with the "monstrous fables that form part of the Roman dunghill of decretals."--E. Petavel, The Problem of Immortality, page 255. Commenting on the words of Solomon in Ecclesiastes, that the dead know not anything, the Reformer says: "Another place proving that the dead have no . . . feeling. There is, saith he, no duty, no science, no knowledge, no wisdom there. Solomon judgeth that the dead are asleep, and feel nothing at all. For the dead lie there, accounting neither days nor years, but when they are awaked, they shall seem to have slept scarce one minute."-- Martin Luther, Exposition of Solomon's Booke Called Ecclesiastes, page 152.

Before any can enter the mansions of the blessed, their cases must be investigated, and their characters and their deeds must pass in review before God. All are to be judged according to the things written in the books and to be rewarded as their works have been. This judgment does not take place at death. Mark the words of Paul: "He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised Him from the dead." Acts 17:31. Here the apostle plainly stated that a specified time, then future, had been fixed upon for the judgment of the world.
Jude refers to the same period: "The angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." And, again, he quotes the words of Enoch: "Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His
saints, to execute judgment upon all." Jude 6, 14, 15. John declares that he "saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: . . . and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books." Revelation 20:12.

But if the dead are already enjoying the bliss of heaven or writhing in the flames of hell, what need of a future judgment? :puzzled:

[trc123]

So, are you trying to convince yourself or me? I know whom I have believed in and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I've committed unto him against that day!

Just in case you need the reference............
2Ti 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

[Biblema]

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

[JerryNumbers]

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica' date=' in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.[/quote']

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Eccl 12:7 (KJV)

Adam Clarke's Commentary

Ecclesiastes 12:7


Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God?

5. Putrefaction and solution take place; the whole mass becomes decomposed, and in process of time is reduced to dust, from which it was originally made; while the spirit, ???? haruach, that spirit, which God at first breathed into the nostrils of man, when he in consequence became a Living Soul, an intelligent, rational, discoursing animal, returns to God who gave it. Here the wise man makes a most evident distinction between the body and the soul: they are not the same; they are not both matter. The body, which is matter, returns to dust, its original; but the spirit, which is immaterial, returns to God. It is impossible that two natures can be more distinct, or more emphatically distinguished. The author of this book was not a materialist.

Thus ends this affecting, yet elegant and finished, picture of Old Age and Death. See a description of old age similar, but much inferior, to this, in the Agamemnon of Aeschylus, 5:76-82.

It has been often remarked that the circulation of the blood, which has been deemed a modern discovery by our countryman Dr. Harvey, in 1616, was known to Solomon, or whoever was the author of this book: the fountains, cisterns, pitcher, and wheel, giving sufficient countenance to the conclusion



Barnes Commentary

Ecclesiastes 12:7


The spirit?i. e., The spirit separated unto God from the body at death. No more is said here of its future destiny. To return to God, who is the fountain Ps. 36:9 of Life, certainly means to continue to live. The doctrine of life after death is implied here as in Exo. 3:6 (compare Mark 12:26), Ps. 17:15 (see the note), and in many other passages of Scripture earlier than the age of Solomon. The inference that the soul loses its personality and is absorbed into something else has no warrant in this or any other statement in this book, and would be inconsistent with the announcement of a judgment after death Eccl. 12:14.



So at death, the grave diggers cannot bury our soul, it reruns to God who gave it to us.



19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Luke 16:19-31 (KJV)

Strange, if the soul and body both die and or destroyed, that both Lazarus and the rich man, one in Pardise, one in hell, both of them are consience and aware of what is around them. The richman even feel torment, knows that even one drop of water would be refershing to him, also knows that his breathern will probally wind up in torrment just as he is. So he has not pershied, there is no Annihilation here.

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 5:29 (KJV)

15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Acts 24:15 (KJV)

And we know there is going to be a resurrection of life, a resurrection of damanation, that is a resurrection of the saved and a resurection of the lost.

29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

Matt 19:29 (KJV)

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matt 25:41 (KJV)

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Matt 25:46 (KJV)

9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.

Luke 16:9 (KJV)

And its quite clear, the saved will have everylasting life in heaven, the lost will have everylasting punishment, everlasting mean never ending. And as alread stated in Luke 16:19-31 the rich man is already reaping punishment, and Lazarus is already in comfort or as the scripture says, "..but now he is comforted."

That they saved will stand before Jesus at this judgment.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

1 Cor 3:11-15 (KJV)

And some will suffer lost and the only thing they will have is their bare salvation, but after this they will be forever with the Lord.

And the lost, such as the richman who is already in torment and has now been in torment for some 2000 years will have to stand before Jesus and be judged.

sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 20:12-15 (KJV)

And thus as has been said in Matt 25:41, Matt 25:46, Luke 16:9, 2 Thessalonians 1:9, Mark 9:44. One thing for sure, they will probally be wishing for total destruction, Annihilation, but it will not come, for they will forever be in the lake of fire suffering the 2nd death for ever becasue they rejected the free gift that God offered them, Jesus Christ/

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:8 (KJV)

Now we have searched the scriptures, something you have accused others of not doing, its quite clear, the saved have everlasting life, the lost have eternal punishment.