Jump to content
Online Baptist Community

KJV 1 (The Rapture)


Go to solution Solved by Jerry,

Recommended Posts

  • Members

There is more to this passage, but this is the part that is applicable. Compare this with Luke 21 - it is speaking of the same time period, yet over and over Isaiah says it is the day of the Lord and the time of God's wrath - all seven years:

Isaiah 13:6-13 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. Let me ask you a question or two then, why would saved people be terrified at the Lords return, why would men be praying for the rocks to fall on them & kill them, don't sound like Christians to me ? Jesus here is talking to sinners which he punishes in the WRATH, (Rev. ch.'s 8&9, not the tribulation(Rev. ch 6)  as soon as the sum & moon go dark, were out of here, then Gods wrath upon the world (not Christians) will begin !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • IFB

Yes, totally. The people freaking out about God's wrath are the unbelievers - specifically those that are already damned to Hell because they received the mark of the beast. Which doesn't disagree with anything I've said here. The true believers of the church age will already be gone before the Lord God pours out His wrath on the earth. Many people will get saved during this time, though those verses are not referring to them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

We're not getting anywhere because you have never answered my original question, tell me why the Bible says AFTER the tribulation of those days (Mark 13:24) (what days? The days he just got through describing for 20 verses) the elect (that's us) will be gathered from the 4 corners of the earth, what, is He picking us up to go to the movies ? If you have to read it & get back with me tomorrow thats fine, but read it first !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • IFB

Because what is being referred to happens after that. Hm, I thought you knew all the answers!

However, this:

Matthew 24:29-31 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

does not automatically equal this: church age saints. This passage is referring to the time of Jacob's trouble (referring to in Jeremiah 30:7) and the elect here are those Jews who get saved during the events of the tribulation. THIS passage (one among several) is referring to the church:

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

And this:

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

And this (primary context is eternal wrath, but God's wrath in the tribulation period also applies):

1 Thessalonians 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Do you not realize when these things are actually supposed to occur??? I believe you're apply the verses for one event to another. What is your timeline on these events? Scripture with Scripture...what is the breakdown?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I'm going to leave it alone, maybe in the future you will come to the truth, if you can't read mark 13:24 thru 27 and see that this is the rapture then I cant help you, & if Mark 13 is the rapture so is Rev. ch. 6:12, they say the same thing about the stars falling & the moon turning to blood, it could not be clearer !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Not true, I have quoted scripture numerous times on here & I have not attacked anybody, now if trying to share some Biblical truth offends then I'm sorry ! I will be happy to answer any questions you have, scripturally ! Here's an interesting thing I've noticed and is the main reason I started this pre trib conversation, almost every church that teaches a pre trib rapture also teaches that (Gen. Ch. 6) angels fell from Heaven and had sex with women & the Bible never says anything like that, as a matter of fact, in verses 1 thru 4 the words men, daughters and sons of God (saved men) & giants are mentioned but not one mention of a angel or fallen angel. Also most of them believe in the Gap theory, that somehow between Gen. 1-1 or 1-2 there is a gap in which millions of years can be added instead of just believing what the Bible says, that the world is a little over 6000 yrs old, that people can't place the timeline of the dinosaurs is what stumps them but its no problem, they were created when everything else was. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • IFB

And, please enjoy your time under God's wrath - all true church age believers will be gone by that point in time.

P.S. No one on these boards needs a random know-it-all rude person to come here and school us on what we all got wrong. Why not find a "Christian" board that stands on your position and fellowship there instead?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • IFB

Again, stop trying to fit all on these boards into your preconceived opinions when you do not know us at all.

Most here (except for maybe a few visitors) would adamantly preach against the gap theory. I cannot speak for any others here on Genesis 6, as this is not an issue I have read any threads on lately, but I personally do not believe that Genesis 6 speaks about fallen angels cohabitating with mankind (for various reasons - sons of God always refers to righteous beings and the angels before any of them fell; there were giants in the earth BEFORE the events of Genesis 6 happened, and even after the flood, so cannot be due to fallen angels; and Jesus states angels do not marry, etc.).

And the Pre-trib position has nothing to do with the gap theory or whatever that other theory is called by you, so are side issues to the issue of the rapture.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
28 minutes ago, Richg said:

I'm going to leave it alone, maybe in the future you will come to the truth, if you can't read mark 13:24 thru 27 and see that this is the rapture then I cant help you, & if Mark 13 is the rapture so is Rev. ch. 6:12, they say the same thing about the stars falling & the moon turning to blood, it could not be clearer !

Question...if it "could not be clearer", then how come it isn't so clear to us who have studied this for years? I think you might be able to argue these points on the BaptistBoard.com....just a suggestion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
17 minutes ago, Richg said:

Not true, I have quoted scripture numerous times on here & I have not attacked anybody, now if trying to share some Biblical truth offends then I'm sorry ! I will be happy to answer any questions you have, scripturally ! Here's an interesting thing I've noticed and is the main reason I started this pre trib conversation, almost every church that teaches a pre trib rapture also teaches that (Gen. Ch. 6) angels fell from Heaven and had sex with women & the Bible never says anything like that, as a matter of fact, in verses 1 thru 4 the words men, daughters and sons of God (saved men) & giants are mentioned but not one mention of a angel or fallen angel. Also most of them believe in the Gap theory, that somehow between Gen. 1-1 or 1-2 there is a gap in which millions of years can be added instead of just believing what the Bible says, that the world is a little over 6000 yrs old, that people can't place the timeline of the dinosaurs is what stumps them but its no problem, they were created when everything else was. 

I know of very few churches who teach the things you're saying are being taught....either in the IFB churches or the SBC churches I've attended. You've yet to give a breakdown/timeline for the things you say pertain to the rapture. Now you're introducing ideology on other things. Deflection isn't a good thing.                                                                                               

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • IFB
On 3/3/2022 at 9:07 AM, Richg said:

but recently in the last 4 or 5 yrs have discovered some truths in scripture that disagree with the traditional teachings of Baptist preachers !

So, you admit that what you believe now you only recently came to believe - yet, you come in like a wrecking ball. Why not show some patience and grace if you truly think you are right and we are wrong - and give those here time to understand your position. Though most if not all the posters on these boards HAVE studied out the doctrine of the rapture and believe you are wrong.

Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

Colossians 4:6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

2 Corinthians 10:1 Now I Paul myself beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence am base among you, but being absent am bold toward you:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Sir, he is gathering the tribe of Israel from the 4 corners of the earth.

4 hours ago, Richg said:

I'm going to leave it alone, maybe in the future you will come to the truth, if you can't read mark 13:24 thru 27 and see that this is the rapture then I cant help you, & if Mark 13 is the rapture so is Rev. ch. 6:12, they say the same thing about the stars falling & the moon turning to blood, it could not be clearer !

Rev 6:13 the next verse is again referencing the tribe. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Posted (edited)
On 3/4/2022 at 11:17 AM, Richg said:

My brother, that's your first mistake, never use man's book to interpret God's word , the Bible is self explanatory 95% of the time and when it's not, we're probably not meant to know that yet. I,m not saying extra knowledge is a bad thing except when it come to a man teaching another man his or her interpretation, I don't do interpretations, just what scripture says !

 

I typically don't respond to people on here who join just to argue or insult the Biblical knowledge of the forum members. There are moderaters and wiser brethren who take the lead in these cases, but for you I'm making an exception.

 

I didn't grow up in a religious family or attend seminary so I have spent the last twenty years testing specific doctrine and theology against the Bible itself. End Times Eschatology is probably my LEAST favorite topic to explore but I've educated myself on nonetheless.

 

So when I read your first few posts in here I couldn't help but to find the "proof texts" you used to validate your beliefs as curious. In twenty years I have NEVER seen anyone use the specific bible references you used to make an eschatological argument, so it struck me as odd that someone who has been a believer for 40 years (as you have described yourself) would come to interpret the those scriptures the way you are. 

 

Your specific wording and emphasis was suspicious to me. Along with that I noticed your confrontational support of Steven Anderson in another thread and decided to see if there was a connection. I visited the Faithword Baptist Church website, clicked on preaching section and looked for the lastest sermon dealing with the rapture or end times.

 

I clicked on the sermon dated 1/3/22 called Pre Trib Arguments Debunked. I was hoping there was a PDF form but there was none so I had sit for nearly an hour listening to this nonsense, but I'm glad I did.

 

You can imagine my amazement when I heard Pastor Anderson using the EXACT same verses to come to the EXACT same understanding of the rapture that supposedly took you "4 or 5 years" of studying to understand. 

 

The forum members can listen themselves and come to their own conclusions, but unless you ARE Steven Anderson yourself then you've lost all credibility in my mind. You came on here challenging the beliefs of the members whose beliefs and opinions I respect even if we don't always agree with one another and accused them of LISTENING to man's teachings instead of the Bible. Now it appears nearly every post you've made on here reflect the beliefs preached from the pulpit of Faithful Word Baptist Church.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XQkTwpE6mNw

 

Edited by Disciple.Luke
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...
  • Members
On 3/3/2022 at 1:01 PM, BrotherTony said:

I don't believe you're properly interpreting that verse. That is talking about the very end....not the rapture. This is one reason I had started a thread a while back about pastors and laypeople mixing the two events up and misinterpreting scriptures concerning each event.

 

Why do you think it is speaking of the very end?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Who's Online   1 Member, 0 Anonymous, 7 Guests (See full list)



  • Recent Achievements

    • couple earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • couple earned a badge
      Conversation Starter
    • Napsterdad earned a badge
      Very Popular
    • Rando went up a rank
      Rookie
    • TheGloryLand went up a rank
      Experienced
  • Tell a friend

    Love Online Baptist Community? Tell a friend!
  • Members

  • Recent Status Updates

    • Eagle One

      Havent been on for years, but have been studying with Jews for Jesus weekly Bible Study which has been wonderful.  Not sure any of your views on that group, but if you are from a Jewish background a great place to be grounded in the word and to learn.
      · 0 replies
    • Barbara Ann

      I am a researcher and writer at Watch Unto Prayer which I started 25 years ago. On this website there are many well-documented articles and audio programs by myself and other researchers whose ministry is to expose the endtime apostasy of the Church. Now more than ever Christians need information in order to identify and avoid the various deceptions that are in nearly all the churches.
      My husband and I attended the IFB Bible Baptist Church of James Knox a couple of years ago. We left the church after we were informed by the assistant pastor that we were not allowed to express views to other members that do not agree with the views of the pastor and leaders of the church. We were not introducing heresy but expressing our views concerning the State of Israel. We had never been in a church which forbade private conversations on issues where there are diverse opinions. This we recognized as cultlike control of church members. To inform Christians, my husband, who is also a researcher and writer, started a website on the subject: Zionism Exposed: A Watchman Ministry.
      · 0 replies
    • Free Spirit

      Jesus said:"I am the truth, the way, and the life. No man can come to The Father, but by Me."
      · 0 replies
    • Richg  »  BrotherTony

      Brother Tony, I read your reply on Anderson, I know you all think I'm argumentative but, when you don't agree.....the first thought I had is, I wish you would introduce me to the guy that hasn't sinned, maybe David, that had a man killed so he could commit adultery, yet, he was & is a man after Gods own heart, or maybe Paul the guy that persecuted and had Christians killed, or maybe Richg or Kent H, or even you ! I used to listen to personalities also when I was younger but today and for some time, my only concern is, does it line up with scripture & to me its hilarious that you think "I'm in a fix" LOL, I interpreted what we've discussed perfectly, not because I'm smart, but because with an open mind to things of God, its an easy read.
      · 1 reply
    • Richg  »  Jerry

      I thought you wanted me to stop talking to you !
      · 0 replies
  • Topics

×
×
  • Create New...