Acts 2 and Simon Peters sermon there....

[BrotherTony]

17 minutes ago, Bro. West said:

It seems Matthew, Acts, Hebrews and James are the launching points for most heresies .

I wonder how many souls are in hell because of twisting Acts2:38?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Act 2:38

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Mat 24:13

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, Heb 10:26

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Jam 2:24

 

Peter could of ate pork in Acts 2, but it was not reveal later to him he could. Acts is a book of progressive revelation. The last question the disciples asked Jesus was When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? Act 1:6

The ending of Acts is the saddest verse for the nation of Israel .

Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and [that] they will hear it. Act 28:28

He came unto his own, and his own received him not. John 1:11

In Acts 2 the kingdom is offered. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; Act 2:16. Those that use Acts 2 never have read Joel 2

28, ¶ And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29, And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. 30, And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31, The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. 32, And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

This is 2^nd advent not the mystery of the church.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Rom 11:25

, How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5, Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6, That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7, Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

We were graft in because Israel’s rejection it was a mystery. God is not thought with Israel, despite what many teach. God will fulfill the promises to them.

No Baptist should be worried about Acts. 2. The mystery was not know in Acts 2.

Tongues and all the rest of it was negative sign to Israel. In the law it is written, With [men of] other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 1Co 14:21. This people is not Gentiles. Not two different Gospels, but two different out comes. Be it Peter in Acts 2 or Paul later both preached salvation by Calvary.

I could go on but this is enough. There no Gentiles in Acts 2.

 

With the references to "All nations on Earth" and with all the countries listed, I don't see how you get that there weren't any Gentiles in Acts 2. I'm sure there were Gentiles living in Jerusalem. I don't think anyone has implied there are two gospels, at least not that I've seen. 

[Jerry]

There were Gentiles - such as Samaritans - saved during Christ's years of ministry. It is not a far stretch to believe that some of those people or those they were associated with were in Jerusalem around the time of the events of Acts 2. And even if not, there still were Gentiles saved. Yes, the primary focus was on the Jews and getting the Gospel to them, but the gospels and the book of Acts never limited it solely to them. If the Jews as a nation had received their Messiah, those Gentiles would still have been saved, but they would have probably been proselytes and added to the commonwealth of Israel, like those who were saved in the OT.

[Bro. West]

Dear Bro.

I can find a bowling ball in a bath tub and I can not find the word Gentile or Samaritans or Christian in Acts 2. But I can find “ And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Act 2:5” and “Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Act 2:22” and “Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Act 2:10

All that were there were those that followed Moses and the law on the day of Pentecost, they had to be converted,(Acts 2:30-41) and about 3000 souls were then converted, not before.

You can assume a lot of things like an Apostolic Pentecostal told me a couple of weeks ago when I told him the thief on the cross was not baptized (so help me) his reply was “well it does not say he was not”. I can assume that Peter and Paul painted their toe nails, after all it does not say they did not.

The message was addressed to ye men of Israel concerning the prophecy of Joel, had there have been a bunch of Irish men across the street the message was still to the house of Israel.

Anyone “saved” during Jesus earthy ministry were saved under the law and not under the new testament for the testator had not issued it in till his death(Heb. 9:16-17).

The gospel we preach today is 1 Cor. 15, which is as you well know is the death, burial and resurrection. Jesus’ own disciple did not believe it until infallible proofs were shown Acts 1:8 (which is changed in the newer libels to convincing, they are not the same).

Like I said before Acts 2 is a kingdom message to Israel hinging on them receiving Jesus as Saviour, they did not.

Acts 28: 27, For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 28, Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. 29, And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

WE GOT IN BECAUSE OF THEIR UNBELIEF

[BrotherTony]

27 minutes ago, Bro. West said:

Dear Bro.

I can find a bowling ball in a bath tub and I can not find the word Gentile or Samaritans or Christian in Acts 2. But I can find “ And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Act 2:5” and “Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Act 2:22” and “Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Act 2:10

All that were there were those that followed Moses and the law on the day of Pentecost, they had to be converted,(Acts 2:30-41) and about 3000 souls were then converted, not before.

You can assume a lot of things like an Apostolic Pentecostal told me a couple of weeks ago when I told him the thief on the cross was not baptized (so help me) his reply was “well it does not say he was not”. I can assume that Peter and Paul painted their toe nails, after all it does not say they did not.

The message was addressed to ye men of Israel concerning the prophecy of Joel, had there have been a bunch of Irish men across the street the message was still to the house of Israel.

Anyone “saved” during Jesus earthy ministry were saved under the law and not under the new testament for the testator had not issued it in till his death(Heb. 9:16-17).

The gospel we preach today is 1 Cor. 15, which is as you well know is the death, burial and resurrection. Jesus’ own disciple did not believe it until infallible proofs were shown Acts 1:8 (which is changed in the newer libels to convincing, they are not the same).

Like I said before Acts 2 is a kingdom message to Israel hinging on them receiving Jesus as Saviour, they did not.

Acts 28: 27, For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 28, Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. 29, And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

WE GOT IN BECAUSE OF THEIR UNBELIEF

Let me ask you...were the Romans in Jerusalem at that time? Were there Romans in the vacinity of the preaching of this sermon? Were there pharisees, sadducees, or scribes there at this time? Were there other nationalities living in Jerusalem at this time. Don't be so obtuse..it may not say in Scripture that there were Gentiles there, but it's clear from history that there WERE Gentiles there. You're imposing your own interpretation of Scripture, and that's not advisable. One must take not only the historical context and content into consideration, but they must also take the historical facts into consideration. The fact is, THERE WERE GENTILES there. Your constantly trying to interject Paul into this thread has nothing to DO with this thread...period. Again, another attempt to divert attention away from your ability to properly and honestly present your beliefs. If they had been preaching out on the water in boats to fishermen, it doesn't say that there were fish there...but there ARE fish in the lake...correct? 

Edited December 7, 2021 by BrotherTony

[Jerry]

3 hours ago, Bro. West said:

I can find a bowling ball in a bath tub and I can not find the word Gentile or Samaritans or Christian in Acts 2.

What's with the hyper-exaggerations and trying to downplay everything? Sorry you just didn't try hard enough. Maybe if you spent less time mocking, you might have found this verse in the chapter we are discussing:

Acts 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

What's a proselyte? In the context of the Bible, a Gentile convert to the Jewish religion. Ouch! Guess you didn't study enough on this issue.

[Bro. West]

I did nor assume that you had a pedicure, but if you do have a color that will match your eyes. You need to lighten up and have a sense of humor.

The proselytes were exactly that a “want to be Jew” they went to observe Pentecost, they did not come to worship Jesus Christ and were there with the 3000 that were converted. They went from Judaism to Christianity in Acts 2. If they were saved by the gospel they would not have to be converted. No ouch

You seem to forget that the book of Acts is a book of progressive revelation and no I am not a “Hyper” for there were people in Christ before Paul (Rom. 16:17), water baptism and all. Things were not iron out until Acts 15. Peter later on could enjoy a nice pork chop, but not in Acts 2 (He did not know.) Why did Paul, with advance revelation warn his followers. Gal.4 9, But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements,3 whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10, Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Col 2:14

If Peter would of preached what Paul preached they would of pulled him from that upper room and stoned him. Paul could testify to that first hand.

. Acts two was a KINGDOM message.

It would be heresy to preach that today. Peter did preach the resurrected Savior, but with the kingdom of heaven . Paul preach the resurrected Savior with the kingdom of God.

Things that are different are not the same. Same Savior different out come.

Sorry dear Brother I am fresh out of bowling balls.

[Jerry]

Sorry, the two terms the kingdom of Heaven and the kingdom of God are used interchangeably in the Gospels. There are statements made about one in one passage and the exact same things made about the other in other passages.

And no one said the proselytes or the Jews in Acts 2 were necessarily saved before Peter preached to them. The context of the chapter indicates they knew the Law of Moses - hence being Jews or proselytes, but they needed to get saved, hence God brought them there to hear the Gospel, of which 3000 did get saved. However, there were other Gentiles saved during the public ministry of Christ.

Maybe this thread is getting too long or I have spent too much time in other threads and my memory needs to be refreshed. What is your point and what are you going on about here?

Edited December 7, 2021 by Jerry

[BrotherTony]

Mr. West...your reasoning here isn't clear...in fact, it's rather circular, and is sort of like another poster or two here. I find it reaonable to, at least in the back of my mind, consider you a troll. I won't come to that conclusion yet...but it is in my minds safe. What specifically are you trying to convey here? Your meanings are a bit garbled, as is your purpose. 

[Jerry]

I went back and skimmed through this thread to try to figure out what the original posts were about and what is being refuted.

There is and has only ever been ONE gospel of salvation. Over time, the Israelites were given more information about the Messiah and HOW He would save them, but since the first man and woman sinned in the Garden of Eden, God offered a lamb - a substitute to die in their place - the blood of the substitute was shed to cover and wipe away their sins.

No one is saying every believer understood everything about the coming Messiah and His prophesied death  - but they placed faith in Him and that He would deal with their sins. When we get to the time of David, we get more information about how He would die (upon a cross as portrayed in Psalm 22, piercing His hands and feet), Isaiah 53 portrays more clearly why He would die (for their sins), that chapter and other passages prophesy that He would be resurrected from the dead.

Even the apostles and others during the life of Jesus knew Jesus would die for their sins - but the how was hidden from them for various reasons. They may not have known how everything tied together until afterwards (like some thinking He was going to bring in His kingdom first), but they had the basics of the Gospel (inasmuch as it was revealed ahead of time).

Edited December 7, 2021 by Jerry

[BrotherTony]

Good insight, Jerry!

[John Young]

The key is understanding what they were being converted to in Acts 2. Notice these were devout men. Already O.T. believers. If they had died before Christ's sacrifice or hearing the message of Peter they would have gone to be with Abraham As they looked for the Christ. (Luke 2:25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. 26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.)

The devout of Acts 2 converted to the N.T. faith and entered the N.T church (the body of Christ) as Christ of their faith had been reveled to them. The O.T believer gathered to Abraham and the N.T Believer Gathered to Christ.
 

"Being pricked to the heart, after hearing a very convicting sermon from the Spirit filled Apostle Peter about Jesus of Nazareth being their Lord and Christ, the devout Jews of every nation ask the Jerusalem Church what they had to do to receive Jesus as their Christ. Peter tells them that they must "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

In this sermon we show how that this was not merely for salvation but for conversion of Old Testament Saints to the better New Testament faith. This sermon and call by Peter was primarily for the devout believers of God who sins were already covered by the Old Testament and had faith in a coming redeemer Christ.

In this sermon we also deal with the differences between Old and New Testament believers. In that the OT believer's sin was covered but not cleansed so after death they had to wait, in faith, un-tormented, in hell, until they could be redeemed by Christ cleansing their sin by the cross and then personally going to hell to free them and take them to Heaven. And how they were covered by God's Spirit, but not indwelt by, the Holy Ghost. 

These OT Saints at Pentecost, having faith in the coming Redeemer already, needed to repent by acknowledging Jesus of Nazareth as that Redeemer and be baptized to receive the gifts that come with the New Testament indwelling of the Holy Ghost.

We also note that every Old Testament believer converted to the New Testament faith, by divine power, for the fulfillment of their salvation."

[Jim_Alaska]

8 hours ago, John Young said:

 

In this sermon we also deal with the differences between Old and New Testament believers. In that the OT believer's sin was covered but not cleansed so after death they had to wait, in faith, un-tormented, in hell, until they could be redeemed by Christ cleansing their sin by the cross and then personally going to hell to free them and take them to Heaven. And how they were covered by God's Spirit, but not indwelt by, the Holy Ghost. 

Bro. John, I believe that the verse below shows that they were indwelt by the Holy Spirit. 

1 Peter 1:11 (KJV) Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

[Jerry]

I was reading this in my daily reading today:

Luke 18:31-34 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

The word understood means to set or bring together... To put (as it were) the perception with the thing perceived, to set or join together in the mind.

By adding that with the word know, basically it is saying they knew these things (ie, had the knowledge of, but not the understanding), but did not grasp their meaning or how they would be put together.

That brings up to mind a related passage:

1 Peter 1:10-12 Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

So it is saying that when God gave prophecies about the coming Messiah, the prophets themselves (and obviously other people at the time) did not fully grasp the meaning or how all these things came together UNTIL the complete fulfillment of them. Even the angels desired to learn more about these things that they did not understand about the Messiah and His salvation.

They understood the Messiah would shed His blood and die in their place, as their substitute, die for their sins, etc., but also that He would come and reign from Jerusalem. They did not know how to tie all these things together UNTIL they were fulfilled on Calvary.

This doesn't make them lost. They didn't believe a different gospel or a have a different way that they were saved, but they were limited in their understanding of things until after the fact.

[John Young]

16 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Bro. John, I believe that the verse below shows that they were indwelt by the Holy Spirit. 

1 Peter 1:11 (KJV) Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

While I don't disagree with this, I do make a distinction between their purposes. While "Spirit of Christ" and "Holy Spirit" and "Holy Ghost" is the same Spirit, they reference different operations and different relationships with the believer. The "Spirit of Christ" is given to all men from birth as a witness and to all who believe that witness He will give the "Holy Ghost". The "Holy Ghost" references His union and work within the Believer. "Spirit" and "Holy Spirit" references His work in general among all. For example in the NT when He spoke by David he is referred to as the "Holy Ghost" (Mark 12;36 and Acts 1:16) but when he is sealing believers he is referred to as the "Holy Spirit" (Eph 1:13-14 and 4:30). 

In the example verses below we can see the separate operations at work. My comments are bracketed and in Red:

John 7:37-39 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink [promise of present possession of Christ in them]. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall [future promise] flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

John1:4-34 In him [Christ] was life; and the life was the light of men [his light is in all men]. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

19 And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? 20 And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ. 21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. 22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? 23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.

24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees. 25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet? 26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; 27 he it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe’s latchet I am not worthy to unloose. 28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. 30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. 31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. [The Spirit of Christ gives power to men so that they can believe and all those who believe are given the Holy Ghost.] 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Edited December 9, 2021 by John Young

[Jerry]

I read this passage this morning:

John 12:12-16 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord. And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written, Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt. These things understood not his disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified, then remembered they that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things unto him.

It wasn't just issues of salvation that the early disciples didn't fully understand until after the events, but also prophecies about the coming kingdom and other things about the Messiah. Once each prophecy is fulfilled, then the understanding opens up as they see how every falls into place.