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Acts 2 and Simon Peters sermon there....


BrotherTony
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In Acts 2 we find that Peter is preaching a sermon to the people who believe that those who are speaking in tongues are drunk. Peter makes reference to the prophecies of the Prophet Joel...The content of this sermon states many things that will happen in the last days. I had someone recently pose a question to me about how Peter could be so wrong about the events that would happen in the last days, calling the times he lived in those days. There were no signs and wonders in the heavens, and the Spirit wasn't poured out on all flesh with the sons and daughters seeing visions, dreaming dreans, and all the other things mentioned in that sermon. So, how does one account for Peters allegedly being wrong about the time period and events? We know that the Holy Spirit doesn't make mistakes and that all of the Scripture we have was inspired by God...so we know that this passage somehow applies to what was going on....Any input?  Thanks.

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22 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

Bump

Yeah. I have thought again and again to make comment here in answer to your original posting; but have not had (taken) the time to organize my thoughts in the writing thereof.  Nevertheless, I DO have thoughts on the matter (and have expressed them somewhat on this very site some time back, although I cannot remember where specifically).

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On 11/5/2021 at 7:11 AM, BrotherTony said:

So, how does one account for Peters allegedly being wrong about the time period and events?

He's not wrong but rather the time period has been drawn out. We are currently waiting on the Jewish nation to turn to Christ nationally by fulfilling the Lord's prophecy about them in Matthew 23.

29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30 and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: 35 that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

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The last days include all of the church age, stated in the Bible/NT in various places. Basically, Joel covers the beginning and the end of the church age with his prophecy. There are multiple prophecies in the Bible that cover an event or prophecy in two stages, such as this one:

Isaiah 61:1-3 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

The prophecy seems like it is all referring to the same time, but Jesus Himself shows what parts were fulfilled in His first coming (all except the day of vengeance of our God).

Luke 4:16-19 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

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Just now, Jim_Alaska said:

Over time I have found that many times there is an earlier, as well as a later, fulfillment for some prophesies. 

Yes, and typically (in my understanding) the later one is more complete or finishes off the prophecy.

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Again, what Peter was preaching had nothing to do with what we preach concerning the gospel today. You can call me a "Ruckmanite" or unsaved heretic all you want but until you stop forcing the bible to adhere to Baptist doctrine from beginning to end you will continually remained baffled by passages like this.

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1 hour ago, SureWord said:

Again, what Peter was preaching had nothing to do with what we preach concerning the gospel today. You can call me a "Ruckmanite" or unsaved heretic all you want but until you stop forcing the bible to adhere to Baptist doctrine from beginning to end you will continually remained baffled by passages like this.

Different gospel of salvation = under the curse of God according to Paul in Galatians 1:8-9. I hope you are not under that curse.

Also, if you think that Baptist doctrine is not in the Bible, why are you posting on a Baptist board?

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Go ahead and express disagreement and still grope in darkness with the whole passage.

Everyone of you force it to say something it doesn't, either by using the "original languages" or straight out twisting the English to make it say something it doesn't.  You are so brainwashed that everything in the bible has to agree with your Baptist Statement of Faith 

Now I consider myself an IFB born again believer saved by the gospel of the grace of God, NOT ACTS 2:38. When a verse or passage clearly says something that doesn't fit my Baptist doctrine I change that doctrine to fit the KJV 1611 not the other way around.

You all insist on forcing that passage to fit your Baptist prejudices.

How many of you pull that verse out when you preach the gospel? Unless you are a Campbellite you steer far from it.

The fact is, nowhere in the passage does it say anything about personal salvation. Nobody in the crowd asked, "What must I (or we) do to be saved?"

Also, none of you can explain why the gospel was HID from the apostles while Jesus first told them about it heading to Jerusalem? 

The gospel we preach wasn't clearly revealed until Paul came along. Can't you all see there was a transition? This explains why the gospel of John, which was written much later, is more like Paul writings and not Matthew, Mark and Luke.

Peter was preaching the same gospel John the Baptist (who was not some Baptist Brider) was preaching. God was giving the nation of Israel one more time to repent and receive their Messiah. This was a national repentance that required baptism. 

And Jerry, Mr. Bible Corrector, you are the one under the danger of a curse if you keep insisting Acts 2:38 is the gospel we now preach and are saved by. I'm not the one who keeps insisting it is. You are. 

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17 minutes ago, SureWord said:

The gospel we preach wasn't clearly revealed until Paul came along. Can't you all see there was a transition? This explains why the gospel of John, which was written much later, is more like Paul writings and not Matthew, Mark and Luke.

Yet, although the Gospel of John may have been written later than that of Matthew, Mark, or Luke, every message of the Lord Jesus Christ that it presents was communicated by the Lord Jesus Christ to Israelite individuals DURING the Lord Jesus' earthly ministry (a bit BEFORE God's inspired revelation unto Paul).  Even so, if you acknowledge that the Gospel of John as a whole presents the gospel for all the Gentile world throughout the age of the church, then it would be consistent to acknowledge that the Lord Jesus Christ Himself preached and taught that very gospel to Israelites DURING His ministry on the earth.

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15 hours ago, SureWord said:

You all insist on forcing that passage to fit your Baptist prejudices.

How many of you pull that verse out when you preach the gospel? Unless you are a Campbellite you steer far from it.

Baptist should not be afraid of any verse merely because of what the false doctrines of some try to teach about it. Baptist doctrine is bible doctrine in context for a reason, and should not be forsaken for hyper-dispensational theory, which attempts to divide out salvation by faith alone from any passage it does not understand.

15 hours ago, SureWord said:

Also, none of you can explain why the gospel was HID from the apostles while Jesus first told them about it heading to Jerusalem?

The passage does not say salvation was hid. Your hyper-dispensational doctrine is reading that into the passage. The passage (Luke 18:31-34) actually says the things "concerning the son of man" was hidden. Meaning the manor of death by the cross and specifically how He was to pay for our salvation but Saving faith was not hidden (as clearly shown in John 12). The way of salvation for mankind has always been clear to the OT believer and is the same for the NT believer. Believe on Christ and you will be saved by HIM. Scripture is clear on that point. 

 John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 11:24-27 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

Romans 3:22a even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:...

2 Corinthians 4:13-14 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written (Psalm 116:10), I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; 14 knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.


Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Hebrews 11:24-26 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter; 25 choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; 26 esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

Edited by John Young
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On 11/5/2021 at 6:11 AM, BrotherTony said:

In Acts 2 we find that Peter is preaching a sermon to the people who believe that those who are speaking in tongues are drunk. Peter makes reference to the prophecies of the Prophet Joel...The content of this sermon states many things that will happen in the last days. I had someone recently pose a question to me about how Peter could be so wrong about the events that would happen in the last days, calling the times he lived in those days. There were no signs and wonders in the heavens, and the Spirit wasn't poured out on all flesh with the sons and daughters seeing visions, dreaming dreans, and all the other things mentioned in that sermon. So, how does one account for Peters allegedly being wrong about the time period and events? We know that the Holy Spirit doesn't make mistakes and that all of the Scripture we have was inspired by God...so we know that this passage somehow applies to what was going on....Any input?  Thanks.

 

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It seems Matthew, Acts, Hebrews and James are the launching points for most heresies .

I wonder how many souls are in hell because of twisting Acts2:38?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Act 2:38

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Mat 24:13

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, Heb 10:26

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Jam 2:24

 

Peter could of ate pork in Acts 2, but it was not reveal later to him he could. Acts is a book of progressive revelation. The last question the disciples asked Jesus was When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? Act 1:6

The ending of Acts is the saddest verse for the nation of Israel .

Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and [that] they will hear it. Act 28:28

He came unto his own, and his own received him not. John 1:11

In Acts 2 the kingdom is offered. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; Act 2:16. Those that use Acts 2 never have read Joel 2

28, ¶ And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29, And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. 30, And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31, The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. 32, And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

This is 2nd advent not the mystery of the church.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Rom 11:25

, How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5, Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6, That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7, Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

We were graft in because Israel’s rejection it was a mystery. God is not thought with Israel, despite what many teach. God will fulfill the promises to them.

No Baptist should be worried about Acts. 2. The mystery was not know in Acts 2.

Tongues and all the rest of it was negative sign to Israel. In the law it is written, With [men of] other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 1Co 14:21. This people is not Gentiles. Not two different Gospels, but two different out comes. Be it Peter in Acts 2 or Paul later both preached salvation by Calvary.

I could go on but this is enough. There no Gentiles in Acts 2.

 

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17 minutes ago, Bro. West said:

It seems Matthew, Acts, Hebrews and James are the launching points for most heresies .

I wonder how many souls are in hell because of twisting Acts2:38?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Act 2:38

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Mat 24:13

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, Heb 10:26

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Jam 2:24

 

Peter could of ate pork in Acts 2, but it was not reveal later to him he could. Acts is a book of progressive revelation. The last question the disciples asked Jesus was When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? Act 1:6

The ending of Acts is the saddest verse for the nation of Israel .

Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and [that] they will hear it. Act 28:28

He came unto his own, and his own received him not. John 1:11

In Acts 2 the kingdom is offered. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; Act 2:16. Those that use Acts 2 never have read Joel 2

28, ¶ And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29, And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. 30, And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31, The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. 32, And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

This is 2nd advent not the mystery of the church.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Rom 11:25

, How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5, Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6, That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7, Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

We were graft in because Israel’s rejection it was a mystery. God is not thought with Israel, despite what many teach. God will fulfill the promises to them.

No Baptist should be worried about Acts. 2. The mystery was not know in Acts 2.

Tongues and all the rest of it was negative sign to Israel. In the law it is written, With [men of] other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 1Co 14:21. This people is not Gentiles. Not two different Gospels, but two different out comes. Be it Peter in Acts 2 or Paul later both preached salvation by Calvary.

I could go on but this is enough. There no Gentiles in Acts 2.

 

With the references to "All nations on Earth" and with all the countries listed, I don't see how you get that there weren't any Gentiles in Acts 2. I'm sure there were Gentiles living in Jerusalem. I don't think anyone has implied there are two gospels, at least not that I've seen. 

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There were Gentiles - such as Samaritans - saved during Christ's years of ministry. It is not a far stretch to believe that some of those people or those they were associated with were in Jerusalem around the time of the events of Acts 2. And even if not, there still were Gentiles saved. Yes, the primary focus was on the Jews and getting the Gospel to them, but the gospels and the book of Acts never limited it solely to them. If the Jews as a nation had received their Messiah, those Gentiles would still have been saved, but they would have probably been proselytes and added to the commonwealth of Israel, like those who were saved in the OT.

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Dear Bro.

I can find a bowling ball in a bath tub and I can not find the word Gentile or Samaritans or Christian in Acts 2. But I can find “ And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Act 2:5” and “Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Act 2:22” and “Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Act 2:10

All that were there were those that followed Moses and the law on the day of Pentecost, they had to be converted,(Acts 2:30-41) and about 3000 souls were then converted, not before.

You can assume a lot of things like an Apostolic Pentecostal told me a couple of weeks ago when I told him the thief on the cross was not baptized (so help me) his reply was “well it does not say he was not”. I can assume that Peter and Paul painted their toe nails, after all it does not say they did not.

The message was addressed to ye men of Israel concerning the prophecy of Joel, had there have been a bunch of Irish men across the street the message was still to the house of Israel.

Anyone “saved” during Jesus earthy ministry were saved under the law and not under the new testament for the testator had not issued it in till his death(Heb. 9:16-17).

The gospel we preach today is 1 Cor. 15, which is as you well know is the death, burial and resurrection. Jesus’ own disciple did not believe it until infallible proofs were shown Acts 1:8 (which is changed in the newer libels to convincing, they are not the same).

Like I said before Acts 2 is a kingdom message to Israel hinging on them receiving Jesus as Saviour, they did not.

Acts 28: 27, For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 28, Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. 29, And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

WE GOT IN BECAUSE OF THEIR UNBELIEF

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27 minutes ago, Bro. West said:

Dear Bro.

I can find a bowling ball in a bath tub and I can not find the word Gentile or Samaritans or Christian in Acts 2. But I can find “ And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Act 2:5” and “Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Act 2:22” and “Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Act 2:10

All that were there were those that followed Moses and the law on the day of Pentecost, they had to be converted,(Acts 2:30-41) and about 3000 souls were then converted, not before.

You can assume a lot of things like an Apostolic Pentecostal told me a couple of weeks ago when I told him the thief on the cross was not baptized (so help me) his reply was “well it does not say he was not”. I can assume that Peter and Paul painted their toe nails, after all it does not say they did not.

The message was addressed to ye men of Israel concerning the prophecy of Joel, had there have been a bunch of Irish men across the street the message was still to the house of Israel.

Anyone “saved” during Jesus earthy ministry were saved under the law and not under the new testament for the testator had not issued it in till his death(Heb. 9:16-17).

The gospel we preach today is 1 Cor. 15, which is as you well know is the death, burial and resurrection. Jesus’ own disciple did not believe it until infallible proofs were shown Acts 1:8 (which is changed in the newer libels to convincing, they are not the same).

Like I said before Acts 2 is a kingdom message to Israel hinging on them receiving Jesus as Saviour, they did not.

Acts 28: 27, For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. 28, Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. 29, And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

WE GOT IN BECAUSE OF THEIR UNBELIEF

Let me ask you...were the Romans in Jerusalem at that time? Were there Romans in the vacinity of the preaching of this sermon? Were there pharisees, sadducees, or scribes there at this time? Were there other nationalities living in Jerusalem at this time. Don't be so obtuse..it may not say in Scripture that there were Gentiles there, but it's clear from history that there WERE Gentiles there. You're imposing your own interpretation of Scripture, and that's not advisable. One must take not only the historical context and content into consideration, but they must also take the historical facts into consideration. The fact is, THERE WERE GENTILES there. Your constantly trying to interject Paul into this thread has nothing to DO with this thread...period. Again, another attempt to divert attention away from your ability to properly and honestly present your beliefs. If they had been preaching out on the water in boats to fishermen, it doesn't say that there were fish there...but there ARE fish in the lake...correct? 

Edited by BrotherTony
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3 hours ago, Bro. West said:

I can find a bowling ball in a bath tub and I can not find the word Gentile or Samaritans or Christian in Acts 2.

What's with the hyper-exaggerations and trying to downplay everything? Sorry you just didn't try hard enough. Maybe if you spent less time mocking, you might have found this verse in the chapter we are discussing:

Acts 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

What's a proselyte? In the context of the Bible, a Gentile convert to the Jewish religion. Ouch! Guess you didn't study enough on this issue.

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