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Roman Catholic Church


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9 minutes ago, palmetotwo said:

When and how did the Roman Catholic Church actually begin?

My opinion is it probably began to be a true political force when the last Western Roman emperor left Rome and in the power vacuum the Roman populace looked to the Roman Church for civil leadership and authority, around 476 AD.

Edited by John Young
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1 hour ago, palmetotwo said:

When and how did the Roman Catholic Church actually begin?   Google doesn't help since it keeps saying it began with Peter.    Been studying about Baptist history and wondering when the persecution switched from the Jews to the Catholics 

There are many different theories on when the Catholic church started. Many Catholics believe that the Catholic church can trace it's origins back to the time of the ascension of Christ. Others within the church believe it started with the Roman Emperor Constantine. I've seen some estimates as late a 495 AD. I have an uncle who is Catholic, and he, if I'm not mistaken, believes it started during the rule of Constantine. It's possible...of course, with all the contradictory doctrines and church history within the RCC, it would be hard to pinpoint a time period. 

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2 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

There are many different theories on when the Catholic church started.

A distinction needs to be made between "Roman Catholic" inferring Roman church authority and the general term "catholic" which started out as simply meaning the whole Christian body of believers.

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1 hour ago, palmetotwo said:

When and how did the Roman Catholic Church actually begin?   Google doesn't help since it keeps saying it began with Peter.    Been studying about Baptist history and wondering when the persecution switched from the Jews to the Catholics 

Safe to say somewhere between the 4th and 5th centuries AD.

Mother of Harlots .jpg

Mother of Harlots and Abominations

 

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27 minutes ago, John Young said:

A distinction needs to be made between "Roman Catholic" inferring Roman church authority and the general term "catholic" which started out as simply meaning the whole Christian body of believers.

I believe there were a remnant of believers who were NEVER a part of the catholic church. There may be some link between the two. I agree that there is a distinction between the two, but this was in reference to my uncles beleifs. He acknowledges, as do many priests that I know/knew, that there were sects outside of the Catholic church that still held to the true teachings of Christ. That's rare these days. But, where I grew up, the priests seemed to be a bit more honest about these kinds of things...probably because they were history teachers. ?

 

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Clark Ridpath, who was a Methodist, wrote this in 1840: “I should not readily admit that there was a Baptist church as far back as 100 a.d. Although without doubt there were Baptist churches then, as all Christians were then Baptists.”

A Catholic, Cardinal Hosius, was the president of the Council of Trent. He wrote this in the year 1545: “were it not that the Baptists have been grievously tormented and cut off with the knife during the past twelve hundred years, they would swarm in greater numbers than all of the Reformers.”

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50 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

I believe there were a remnant of believers who were NEVER a part of the catholic church. There may be some link between the two. I agree that there is a distinction between the two, but this was in reference to my uncles beleifs. He acknowledges, as do many priests that I know/knew, that there were sects outside of the Catholic church that still held to the true teachings of Christ. That's rare these days. But, where I grew up, the priests seemed to be a bit more honest about these kinds of things...probably because they were history teachers. ?

 

The one true church, Baptist, began with Christ during His earthly ministry. What is known of the Roman Catholic Church came along four hundred years later; too late to be the first church, or to trace its history back to the Apostles, especially Peter.

Matthew 16:18  And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

 

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Basically, some of the doctrines and practices started with Constantine, but the first official Universal Pope was Gregory the First in 590 AD.

Revelation 2-3 actually gives an overview (looking back) of church history. Pergamus (meaning "elevated by marriage") represents Constantine in 312 AD, some oppressive deeds in the first century now became doctrine. Thyatira ("endless or weary sacrifice") represents the Catholic church coming into full bloom - compare that letter with Revelation 18, Jezebel basically becomes the woman riding the beast. The very next church, Sardis ("escaping one or those who come out") represents the reformation churches, which in many cases became dead churches within the next few centuries.

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Constatine. He took on the title of Pontifex Maximus becoming the Holy Roman Emperor. That's when the Papacy began thus the similarities with how the Vatican government is set up and the Roman government.

There were Popes before that starting around 400 AD and before that it was the bishop of Rome which started around the early 3rd century. 

I believe it was Irenaeus who coined the term "catholic church".

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Yes, but no universal popes - ie. ones over all that church. Those ones were just over certain regions. Constantine certainly set in motion what would be the Catholic church, but what was in his time was not what it would become a few hundred more years later.

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Romans 16:v. 20 - And the GOD of peace SHALL BRUISE SATAN UNDER YOUR FEET SHORTLY. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

The author of the epistle to the Romans, Paul Apostle, after his conversion to Christianity was arrested in Cesareia, he made his own defense at his Judgment. The Jews asked to the governor called Festus to send Paul to Jerusalem, but Paul told no one could turn him over to the Jews (Paul knew that the Jews wanted to kill him), then, when he finished his defense, he appealed to Caesar at his Judgment. "Then Festus, when he had conferred with the council, answered, Hast thou appealed unto Caesar? unto Caesar shalt thou go-Acts 25:v.12. Paul's journey to Italy-Rome was full of obstacles and difficulties for his survival, and at great risk of losing his life, but GOD was with him and kept him, and he arrived in Rome safe and sound after several months of great sufferings.


The Apostle Paul, whose name was originally Saul, was a Jew from a very orthodox line of Pharisaism. He was a student of Gamaliel, but unlike his mentor, he was known for his persecution of Christians. Paul also had Roman citizenship, he was born in Tarsus, the capital of Cilicia, this was and made a great difference in his ministry. Cilicia is an early Roman province on what is today the southern coast of Turkey.
There were many many Jews in Rome, and the fame of a new "religion or sect" planted by JESUS in Israel was spreading everywhere. Three days after he arrived in Rome, Paul called the Jewish leaders in Rome, as a result, many Jews in Rome came to visit him, and Paul explained that he was arrested because of his faith in Israel's hope. They decided to hear more (Acts 28:17-22), and a large number of Jews gathered at Paul's house, and he tried to convince them about Jesus (28:23) and the Kingdom of God, there was a division among the Jews, some believing and others rejecting the Word (28:24-29).

Paul said to the Jews of the Church of Rome:  Romans 2:v.1-11
1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the Judgment of God?
5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
11 There is no respect of persons with God.

Then the Church of our Lord JESUS developed itself in Rome by the Apostles of the Lord, and Satan in parallel worked too through the apostate members of the Church in Rome.

Thus Paul was concerned about the apostasy in the Church of Rome, he took very care for the spiritual development of the brothers in Rome. Paul gave his last instructions and admonitions to the brothers of the Church in Rome, warning them of an apostate movement mainly by Jews among the brothers, even in the Church of the Lord there established by him and other apostles. Rom.16:17-20:

-17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and AVOID THEM.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by GOOD WORDS and FAIR SPEECHES DECEIVE the hearts of the simple.
19 For YOUR OBEDIENCE is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.
20 And the God of peace SHALL BRUISE SATAN UNDER YOUR FEET SHORTLY.THIS WILL FULFILL LIETERALLY FROM NOW ON-HALLELUJAH!

John Apostle also wrote about the apostasy mainly about the primitive and true Church of the LORD in Rome, as follow:
1 John 2:v.19 - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out,that they might be made manifest that THEY WERE NOT ALL OF US.

It is very interesting this revelation of the Apostle John concerning the primitive and genuine Church of the LORD in Rome, which apostatized even in the time of the Apostles, mainly the Jewish believers, and it linked politically to the Roman Empire, and the Church was called Catholic Church, and become a CORRUPTED CHURCH in the hands of Satan.

Again: "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out,that they might be made manifest that THEY WERE NOT ALL OF US"-1John 2:v.19-then they started to persecute the true Churches of the LORD, they killed the Apostles Paul and Peter among others. By the way, notice that Revelation describes(year 95AD and 65 years after JESUS's ascension)the spiritual conditions of the 7 Churches of Asia, but the Church of Rome, later denominated Roman Catholic Church, which would be the eighth, it was excluded because was totally in the hands of the Devil, and would be according Scriptures the Seat of Satan, the headquarter of the body of Devil, the idolater, apostate, and devilish church of Rome.

And now, even now, with the manifestation of the MAN Beast of earth with two horns like a lamb, a false lamb, a Jewish false messiah (John 5:v.43-47) but speaks as Dragon, then there will be two Beasts reigning on the Earth, one in Rome and another in Jerusalem, as Paul apostle warned, saying; 2Thes.2:v.3to12:
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (He who is not of the Lord, Satan will take with him, and there will be battle: Revelation 12:v.7-17 and 16:v.13-16).
And ONE of the 7 heads of the satanic and religious MONSTER guided by the Beast of sea will be wounded to death by the Sword, and his wound will be healed by the MAN Beast of earth, the son of perdition, the little horn, who was born from one of the 10 tribes of Israel, the tribe of Dan, he is already living in his country, and must manifest himself soon. And he, even he himself, will give to the Beast of sea-the Pope-his Power,and his Seat in Jerusalem, spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, and great Authority, and the wound of the head of the Beast of sea will be healed by the false messiah of the Jews-John 5:v.43-47 combined with Revelation 13:v.3.
But the GOD of peace SHALL BRUISE SATAN UNDER YOUR FEET SHORTLY. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

 

Revelation 13:v.3 - And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death;...by a Sword-verse 14 

It is impressive to see how the religious and satanic Antichrist was born and developed itself from the primitive Church-from the apostasy of Church of Rome-. Paul prophesied saying the same will happen now in the end of the times - 1 Timothy 4:v.1-3  

 

 

 

 

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On 11/4/2021 at 9:05 AM, palmetotwo said:

When and how did the Roman Catholic Church actually begin?   Google doesn't help since it keeps saying it began with Peter.    Been studying about Baptist history and wondering when the persecution switched from the Jews to the Catholics 

Love reading the answers.  Since all denominations (other than Baptists) have a person as their founder, (usually one that had a vision) unless Peter pastored a church that turned to apostacy then Constantine would be the founder of the Roman Catholic Church correct. 

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Where do you get the idea that people having visions are the ones that started most denominations? Maybe cults. Many (not saying all - wanted to say most, but I cannot really be sure of that) denominations started as a result of a difference of doctrine or practice from another group that they split off from - whether Protestant, Catholic, or even an independent group.

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