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Taliban Fighters Enter Kabul


Bouncing Bill
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America's founders had the benefit of the principle of human dignity and worth as found in the Bible, and many were also fighting for true freedom of religion (individual soul liberty). The Afghanis don't have that, and their religion teaches much of what the Taliban represents. I wonder if without that Biblical basis, they'll ever have the real impetus to fight. 

I should talk... look at Canada and the western nations, and how our societies are so freely giving up their liberties for some supposed safety from a nasty flu.

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On 8/15/2021 at 11:18 AM, SureWord said:

We shouldn't have been there to begin with. Those people do not want a democracy because it's an abomination to Islam. 

Just another war to make a few rich at the top even richer (hundreds of millions of dollars have disappeared without a trace).

They'll have to find their opium from somewhere else now. Maybe big Pharma can buy it from China.

Incidentally, Vietnam was the #1 producer of opium in the world before fall of Saigon.

Unfortunately the reality is that Afghanistan was never going to be a democracy without US troops present.

I think we have stop looking at the middle east through a "American"  or western perspective. I'm sure there are a minority of liberal Afghans who admire and want to live in a free country like we do here, but for the most part the Afghans are deeply rooted in Islam and various forms of tribalism. 

The United States was never going to take over the country and make it some kind of proxy state under the US government so once we finally left SOMEONE inevitably was going to take control. While the Taliban may not be much better they have been effective in defeating ISIS fighters who want to make Afghanistan a part of their new "Caliphate".

Like SureWord said - the Afghans are Muslims and WANT to live under Islamic laws. While Muslims believe Sharia is "Allah's" blueprint for a government I think MOST are afraid and are against the very strict interpretation and enforcement of used by the previous Taliban rule and places like Saudi Arabia.

It's my understanding that one of the reasons Mohammed Omar  formed the Taliban was to combat local powerful warlords who were practicing "Bacha bazi " which is the practice of having naked young boys dressed like females dance for them like strippers, and the sexual activity associated with it. Omar assembled and armed his "students" after a warlord kidnapped and raped two young girls and rescued them. Bach bazi was made illegal by the Tabliban and was punishable by death when they came to power. I'm sure the men in Afghanistan today who have been practicing these kind of sex acts while the Taliban were out of power are among the ones in the Kabul airport praying for a way to get out of the country.

The Taliban couldve easily overlooked parts of Islamic law and turned those poppy fields into a cash machine for  the manufacturing of heroin but Omar and the other Taliban leaders rightfully concluded that it was unislamic and burned the fields while making it illegal.

There is simply no good solution when it comes to who controls the Afghanistan government. Because of Islam alone no matter who ends up in power it's going to upset outsiders and draw criticism from Western countries. 

I don't feel like a Taliban government is a good thing, but like I said there is no perfect solution or substitute that is a realistic option for the future there. I only pray that the Taliban truly mean what they say about changing their views on women's rights and the way they ruled before. 

 

Edited by Disciple.Luke
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39 minutes ago, Disciple.Luke said:

Unfortunately the reality is that Afghanistan was never going to be a democracy without US troops present.

I think we have stop looking at the middle east through a "American"  or western perspective. I'm sure there are a minority of liberal Afghans who admire and want to live in a free country like we do here, but for the most part the Afghans are deeply rooted in Islam and various forms of tribalism. 

The United States was never going to take over the country and make it some kind of proxy state under the US government so once we finally left SOMEONE inevitably was going to take control. While the Taliban may not be much better they have been effective in defeating ISIS fighters who want to make Afghanistan a part of their new "Caliphate".

Like SureWord said - the Afghans are Muslims and WANT to live under Islamic laws. While Muslims believe Sharia is "Allah's" blueprint for a government I think MOST are afraid and are against the very strict interpretation and enforcement of used by the previous Taliban rule and places like Saudi Arabia.

It's my understanding that one of the reasons Mohammed Omar  formed the Taliban was to combat local powerful warlords who were practicing "Bacha bazi " which is the practice of having naked young boys dressed like females dance for them like strippers, and the sexual activity associated with it. Omar assembled and armed his "students" after a warlord kidnapped and raped two young girls and rescued them. Bach bazi was made illegal by the Tabliban and was punishable by death when they came to power. I'm sure the men in Afghanistan today who have been practicing these kind of sex acts while the Taliban were out of power are among the ones in the Kabul airport praying for a way to get out of the country.

The Taliban couldve easily overlooked parts of Islamic law and turned those poppy fields into a cash machine for  the manufacturing of heroin but Omar and the other Taliban leaders rightfully concluded that it was unislamic and burned the fields while making it illegal.

There is simply no good solution when it comes to who controls the Afghanistan government. Because of Islam alone no matter who ends up in power it's going to upset outsiders and draw criticism from Western countries. 

I don't feel like a Taliban government is a good thing, but like I said there is no perfect solution or substitute that is a realistic option for the future there. I only pray that the Taliban truly mean what they say about changing their views on women's rights and the way they ruled before. 

 

Yes, the Taliban was actually an improvement over the Mujahideen who was a creation of the CIA in our proxy war against the Soviet Union. Nothing but drug Lords, rapists and pedophiles. The Taliban was burning the opium fields. IMO, that's the main reason we went in.  Apparently, it turned into a giant money laundering campaign also.

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2 hours ago, SureWord said:

Yes, the Taliban was actually an improvement over the Mujahideen who was a creation of the CIA in our proxy war against the Soviet Union. Nothing but drug Lords, rapists and pedophiles. The Taliban was burning the opium fields. IMO, that's the main reason we went in.  Apparently, it turned into a giant money laundering campaign also.

Agreed.

 

I also agree with your comment about how we never should've been in Afghanistan in the first place.

 

When the US threatened the Afghans if they did not hand over Osama Bin Laden I am not completely convinced that Mohammad Omar refused because he agreed with the 9/11 attacks. Of course once we invaded then the Taliban hit the green light on jihad against us.

 

I think to understand why Omar refused to cooperate with the US you have to consider the Islamic teaching on giving asylum to another Muslim when asked but in Mohammed Omar's case you also have to factor in the local Pushtun tribal traditions that are a part of the Afghan culture.

 

In places like Afghanistan those traditions and rules are taken very seriously and in many cases they would rather die than break an oath or promise, and I believe this is why the Taliban refused to hand bin Laden over. Well or at least part of the reason. Anyone who has seen the movie based on the true story Lone Survivor has seen a portrayal of this. When the US soldier makes it to the village and the jihadist come looking for him the villagers refused to hand him over risking their lives because their tradition compelled them to protect him regardless of personal feelings.

 

In the end we invaded and went to war with an entire country to find one person who was living in PAKISTAN when we found him. 

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On 8/15/2021 at 8:05 PM, HappyChristian said:

From Ted Cruz:

It is now clear there has been a disastrous breakdown across the political, military, and intelligence leadership of the Biden-Harris administration, culminating in the catastrophe for American national security we are now witnessing. This debacle should never have happened—and, indeed, we were assured it would not happen. In just the last few weeks, top officials from the administration, including Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Milley and President Biden himself, stood in front of cameras and told Americans their plan for withdrawing from Afghanistan was sound, the country's military was capable of defending the country, and a Taliban onslaught could not succeed.
 
 

I watched as Obama eliminated the best military tactical minds and leaders in favor of generals and admirals skilled in social engineering and expert in maintaining their retirement pensions. Biden was just as much at fault as Obama and is complicit in the deterioration of our military. Now there are no active generals or admirals who will stand up and tell Biden he was wrong nor were there any tactical-leaders to advise him his course of action (full retreat) was wrong and sent the wrong message. I imagine none of the Obama-Biden generals will even be asked to resign.

Sadly, President Trump was stuck with these same mealy-mouthed no account generals and admirals during his first four years. I have a feeling that will change during Trump's next four years.

Edited by 1Timothy115
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2 hours ago, 1Timothy115 said:

I watched as Obama eliminated the best military tactical minds and leaders in favor of generals and admirals skilled in social engineering and expert in maintaining their retirement pensions. Biden was just as much at fault as Obama and is complicit in the deterioration of our military. Now there are no active generals or admirals who will stand up and tell Biden he was wrong nor were there any tactical-leaders to advise him his course of action (full retreat) was wrong and sent the wrong message. I imagine none of the Obama-Biden generals will even be asked to resign.

Sadly, President Trump was stuck with these same mealy-mouthed no account generals and admirals during his first four years. I have a feeling that will change during Trump's next four years.

A former UK general who was in Afghanistan came out and said Biden should be court-martialed.

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9 hours ago, HappyChristian said:

A former UK general who was in Afghanistan came out and said Biden should be court-martialed.

Nice, but the condemnation needs to come from our own. More evidence of the insignificance of the USA in God's eternal plan.

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55 minutes ago, 1Timothy115 said:

Nice, but the condemnation needs to come from our own. More evidence of the insignificance of the USA in God's eternal plan.

If we followed God's play we would have promoted peace and not war. 

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God."

Matthew 5:9 

 

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6 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

If we followed God's play we would have promoted peace and not war. 

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God."

Matthew 5:9 

 

Oh, so you agree with the attacks on 9/11, eh, BB?

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What's gonna be interesting is there's a good chance this fall that unvaccinated citizens will be interned in detention camps while the Afghans and illegals pouring over the border, unvaxxed and placed around the country, will be roaming free.

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36 minutes ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Your reply makes no sense. Please stay on topic. Thanks.

My reply makes perfect sense..and I AM on topic...If it hadn't been for the attacks, we would never have gone to Afghanistan...If we hadn't gone to Afghanistan, the your president, Jivin' Joey wouldn't be making the mistakes he's made and laving the Taliban to take over the whole of Afghanistan again...Maybe you need a refresher in how to tell the truth??? Eh?

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1 hour ago, BrotherTony said:

My reply makes perfect sense..and I AM on topic...If it hadn't been for the attacks, we would never have gone to Afghanistan...If we hadn't gone to Afghanistan, the your president, Jivin' Joey wouldn't be making the mistakes he's made and laving the Taliban to take over the whole of Afghanistan again...Maybe you need a refresher in how to tell the truth??? Eh?

Bush made the mistake of going in. All the presidents since have made mistakes. We should never have gone in.

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4 minutes ago, Bouncing Bill said:

Bush made the mistake of going in. All the presidents since have made mistakes. We should never have gone in.

20-20 is perfect. Really, it's not that we shouldn't have gone in its we shouldn't have stayed for 20 years. Probably a year or two.

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