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Taliban Fighters Enter Kabul


Bouncing Bill
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We never learn from history.

We spent 88 Billion and got nothing. It was so predictable.

Taliban fighters entered the outskirts of the Afghan capital on Sunday and said they were awaiting a "peaceful transfer" of the city after promising not to take it by force, but panicked residents raced to the leave, with workers fleeing government offices and helicopters landing at the U.S. Embassy.

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/15/1027806863/the-taliban-seize-jalalabad-cutting-off-kabul-to-the-east

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We shouldn't have been there to begin with. Those people do not want a democracy because it's an abomination to Islam. 

Just another war to make a few rich at the top even richer (hundreds of millions of dollars have disappeared without a trace).

They'll have to find their opium from somewhere else now. Maybe big Pharma can buy it from China.

Incidentally, Vietnam was the #1 producer of opium in the world before fall of Saigon.

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3 hours ago, SureWord said:

We shouldn't have been there to begin with. Those people do not want a democracy because it's an abomination to Islam. 

Just another war to make a few rich at the top even richer (hundreds of millions of dollars have disappeared without a trace).

They'll have to find their opium from somewhere else now. Maybe big Pharma can buy it from China.

Incidentally, Vietnam was the #1 producer of opium in the world before fall of Saigon.

You are right, we should never have been there. You can thank Rumsfeld for our going there. He convinced G. Bush. Bush was unfortunate in that he had bad advisors. I am not sure why or how that happened. Regardless we have paid a terrible price for his following their bad advice. I said when we went in it was a mistake, like getting your fist stuck in a tar baby. You do not get out easily or clean. This was obvious if you knew the history of Afghanistan. 

They do not need to find opium. They grow it.

 

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4 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

You are right, we should never have been there. You can thank Rumsfeld for our going there. He convinced G. Bush. Bush was unfortunate in that he had bad advisors. I am not sure why or how that happened. Regardless we have paid a terrible price for his following their bad advice. I said when we went in it was a mistake, like getting your fist stuck in a tar baby. You do not get out easily or clean. This was obvious if you knew the history of Afghanistan. 

They do not need to find opium. They grow it.

 

Maybe the US government secretly grows it but not like Aghanistan. They produce 80% of the worlds opium. At least they did. The Taliban will burn the fields as was happening before we invaded.

Any nation that produces that much opium America will either seek to control it or to keep others from controlling it.

This is the main reason we went into Iraq. Not to take control of the oil fields but prevent China from striking a deal with Saddam's government which was about to happen. 

China, by the way, is the largest producer of illegal fentanyl that enters the US.

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I agree we should have never been there in the first place, but leaving the way we did was just horrible and caused more deaths than needed. The exit was not thought out or planned well at all. Previous administrations handled this wrong, and our current administration did the same thing in record time. It seems it may have been done to check of the list for his legacy.

In July, Biden said that "the likelihood there's going to be the Taliban overrunning everything and owning the whole country is highly unlikely." I think he's the only one in this country that did not see this happening, of course he's not even sure he's president. 

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3 minutes ago, PastorMatt said:

I agree we should have never been there in the first place, but leaving the way we did was just horrible and caused more deaths than needed. The exit was not thought out or planned well at all. Previous administrations handled this wrong, and our current administration did the same thing in record time. It seems it may have been done to check of the list for his legacy.

In July, Biden said that "the likelihood there's going to be the Taliban overrunning everything and owning the whole country is highly unlikely." I think he's the only one in this country that did not see this happening, of course he's not even sure he's president. 

Yes, they left a lot of people who helped us high n' dry without a way out. No doubt they will be slaughtered now.

I would never trust the American government.

I just heard that China, Russia, Pakistan and India have already recognized the Taliban as a legitimate government.

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From Ted Cruz:

It is now clear there has been a disastrous breakdown across the political, military, and intelligence leadership of the Biden-Harris administration, culminating in the catastrophe for American national security we are now witnessing. This debacle should never have happened—and, indeed, we were assured it would not happen. In just the last few weeks, top officials from the administration, including Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Milley and President Biden himself, stood in front of cameras and told Americans their plan for withdrawing from Afghanistan was sound, the country's military was capable of defending the country, and a Taliban onslaught could not succeed.
 
We now know those assurances were disastrously wrong, if not outright false.
I have long called for the U.S. to withdraw from Afghanistan. Wars must have ends. The Trump administration had negotiated the basis for an orderly withdrawal from Afghanistan. But this White House tore up that deal and instead pursued an incoherent and precipitous abandonment that subordinated realistic planning and military necessity to wishful thinking and political ideology.
 
Our men and women in uniform have fought heroically for decades, in Afghanistan and elsewhere, and it is impossible to adequately express the gratitude Americans feel and the immense debt we owe them. Their leaders have too often let them down and did here again. They and other brave Americans in Afghanistan are in precisely the acute danger President Biden assured the American public would not happen.
 
Our first priority must be to secure the safety of Americans still in Afghanistan. Then Congress must demand a thorough accounting both of what is happening in Afghanistan and why Biden-Harris officials have been consistently issuing assessments that were at best, misleading, and at worst, false. Either there was a complete collapse of American intelligence collecting in the region, President Biden was deliberately misled by his hand-picked national security team, or he knowingly issued statements he knew to be false. The American people deserve to know the truth and hold our leaders accountable.
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4 minutes ago, HappyChristian said:

The Trump administration had negotiated the basis for an orderly withdrawal from Afghanistan. But this White House tore up that deal and instead pursued an incoherent and precipitous abandonment that subordinated realistic planning and military necessity to wishful thinking and political ideology.

I'll have to do some research on this. I do remember Trump started negotiating the exit plan, but I don't remember what happened after that. 

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Apparently, Trump negotiated a "conditional withdrawal". Not sure what that exactly means but I believe it left the door open for us to return if they went too far not respecting the puppet government we installed. 

Bottom line is most Afghans want the Taliban just like most Palestinians want Hezbollah. These people are not Americans nor do they want our cesspool culture.

No more foreign wars. Bring all the troops home and put them on the southern border.

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8 hours ago, PastorMatt said:

I agree we should have never been there in the first place, but leaving the way we did was just horrible and caused more deaths than needed. The exit was not thought out or planned well at all. Previous administrations handled this wrong, and our current administration did the same thing in record time. It seems it may have been done to check of the list for his legacy.

In July, Biden said that "the likelihood there's going to be the Taliban overrunning everything and owning the whole country is highly unlikely." I think he's the only one in this country that did not see this happening, of course he's not even sure he's president. 

And, he doesn't know how many live here in this country...he stated that over 385 million people had been vaccinated...there are only about 335 million in this country...ugh!

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10 hours ago, PastorMatt said:

I agree we should have never been there in the first place, but leaving the way we did was just horrible and caused more deaths than needed. The exit was not thought out or planned well at all. Previous administrations handled this wrong, and our current administration did the same thing in record time. It seems it may have been done to check of the list for his legacy.

In July, Biden said that "the likelihood there's going to be the Taliban overrunning everything and owning the whole country is highly unlikely." I think he's the only one in this country that did not see this happening, of course he's not even sure he's president. 

I feel Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden all are responsible. I am sure that Bush followed the advice of Rumsfeld, a real hawk who was itching for war. I believe Bush was a decent person who ended up with bad advisors. Following him, I believe the Pentagon hid many problems and were overly optimistic. I now believe Obama was mislead and probably he (Obama) mislead the American people. I believe Trump made a serious strategic mistake when he entered and signed an agreement with the Taliban agreeing on a date to begin our military withdrawal without allowing the Afghan government a say in the negotiations. The Taliban knew all they had to do was bide their time until we left. Biden was saying what he was told. I believe the Pentagon mislead him also. We threw 88 billion into Afghanistan.  The corruption there misused much of the money, make many very rich, and produced no effective military. 

I cannot imagine the bitterness of many families knowing they lost fathers, sons, and daughters all for nothing. I am sick over this dark chapter in our history. 

I am sure that Happy is correct and that the majority of the Afghan people do not want the Taliban. Sadly, for them, we abandoned them and they are stuck with the Taliban and we know how terrible the Taliban treated people when they were in power before. 

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6 hours ago, HappyChristian said:

I've read they have the majority support of the people. The streets were full of celebrations in many cities when they would arrive. They were able to take over an entire nation essentially within a week. That wouldn't happen if they didn't have the support of the people.

Again, this is the mistake of thinking these people want to be American. Same mistake in Vietnam.

Edited by SureWord
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58 minutes ago, SureWord said:

I've read they have the majority support of the people. The streets were full of celebrations in many cities when they would arrive. They were able to take over an entire nation essentially within a week. That wouldn't happen if they didn't have the support of the people.

Again, this is the mistake of thinking these people want to be American. Same mistake in Vietnam.

I fully agree. I've read the same thing, and many of the servicemen  and women who served in Afghanistan have told me that the people there didn't want Western styled Democracy. It is against their Quran and their prophet. I also agree that there would have been better ways to handle the terrorists in Afghanistan other than invading the country. There was sufficient intelligence and sufficient sources inside the country that could have led us to those who were responbile for the attacks of 9/11. Afghanistan was only a part of the problem anyhow. Pakistan and Iraq were involved to some degree as well. Yet, we avoided Pakistan for the most part. Yes, we had some small incursions there, but Bush, who led us into Afghanistan to help appease the anger of Americans who lost loved one in the attacks of 9/11, led us into two failed wars. His pop should have finished off Saddam Hussein back in the first Gulf War instead of following the mandate of the United Nations. I never was a fan of the Bush family, and my reasons were borne out in this last election. They are more Nationalist Democrats that they are Republicans. The only reason that Bush 41 was added to the ticket was that this was the only way the Ronald Reagan was going to win the nomination. He had to gain the liberal 1/2 of the Republicans, and Bush was the overwhelming choice. 

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15 hours ago, SureWord said:

I've read they have the majority support of the people. The streets were full of celebrations in many cities when they would arrive. They were able to take over an entire nation essentially within a week. That wouldn't happen if they didn't have the support of the people.

Again, this is the mistake of thinking these people want to be American. Same mistake in Vietnam.

Not wanting to be "American" or westernized is far different from preferring the Taliban.  Although BEFORE the Taliban took over, in the 60s, they were actually very "westernized." Pictures of people back then look very much like American pictures from back then. 99% muslim country gave women "equality." But then the king was removed (1973). Then Russia came in (1979 - and interestingly enough, it was referred to as the USSR's Vietnam). The US supported the anti-soviet Afghans...giving them weaponry, which I think was wrong. But they got rid of Russia in 1989, but 3 years later the Taliban took over. And set up the Islamic Emirate. I guess the 2 million that died in the 10-year war wasn't enough. The Taliban's strict adherence to Sharia caused women to be tortured, maimed, and killed if a man desired (or felt "honor" bound). (and their culture is wicked as well...although they will kill gays who are "out," a great many of the Shariah-pushing men are pedophiles [anyone who marries a child is a pedophile] and closet perverts in other ways)

I'm sure everyone knows the history, so I won't go on. I just wanted to stress that the rank-and-file Afghani does not support nor want the Taliban. Mayhap they want the Americans gone - and I couldn't blame them. I wouldn't want to live in an occupied country, either. 

I'm not going to get into whether or not we were right to go in there (we each have our opinions, and I'm sure they are strong, whatever they are). But this mess is not only being referred to as another Saigon, but Biden's Bay of Pigs. IMO, it's purposeful, as is all the garbage about CoV, mandates, v*xx, letting Antifa off virtually scot-free, the ridiculous "investigation" into the Jan 6 "capitol riots," and on and on ad nauseum. Fracture a society into segments and they will not come together in unity to fight the bigger evil that is the take-over of our country.

We need revival. 

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No doubt these helicopters and other abandoned equipment will be handed over to China and Russia so they can reverse engineer them.

But, as Bro. Matt said, no more mean tweets.

2 hours ago, PastorMatt said:

FB_IMG_1629195674156.jpg

I read yesterday where one of Trump's lawyers was banned from Twitter, as Trump has been, but the head of the Taliban has not.

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There could never be a peaceful transition or removal of US forces, unless the Afghani people are willing to stand and fight. They're conditioned to either being cowed by fear of the Taliban, or protected by America. And when the chips fell and the time came to stand, having been armed and trained, they dropped everything and ran. 

Our own founding in America is a good example: we had to reach a point where we we so tired of being trod upon, we were willing to die to make a change. Until the people of Afghanistan are willing to do the same, nothing will change. Get our people out and let them receive the recompense due for their unwillingness to stand. When they're tired enough, they'll stand for themselves. Or die trying.

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