Jump to content
Online Baptist Community
  • Newest Sermon Entry

    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Fearful Sights!


1Timothy115
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

There is no parallel from the other gospels for the following quotation from Luke 21. Has anyone studied this, I'm trying to gather all I can. 

"and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven." [Luke 21:11]

What will these "fearful sights and great signs...from heaven" be? Is the Lord speaking of Godly signs, man-made signs, or signs of deception by Satan? Or, is it in reference to Luke 21:25-26 and Mark 13:24-25?

"and great signs shall there be from heaven; as comets and blazing stars, a flaming sword, or a comet like one, hanging over Jerusalem, and armies in the air engaged against each other" John Gill's Commentary

Edited by 1Timothy115
combine similar thoughts
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Brother 1Timothy115,

I believe that contextually Luke 21:11 is a summary statement that looks forward to the statement of Luke 21:25.  Furthermore, I believe that contextually the phrase, "But BEFORE all these things," with which Luke 21:12 begins, places all that is reported in verses 12-24 as a contextual break between the report of Luke 21:11 and Luke 21:25.  As such, I would hold that Luke 21:12-24 reveals the events that will occur throughout "the times of Gentiles" (the time of the church age) as per verse 24; and I would hold that the report of Luke 21:11 & 25 (in union with one another) reveals events that will occur during the time of the Tribulation Period.

Edited by Pastor Scott Markle
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
4 hours ago, 1Timothy115 said:

There is no parallel from the other gospels for the following quotation from Luke 21. Has anyone studied this, I'm trying to gather all I can. 

"and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven." [Luke 21:11]

What will these "fearful sights and great signs...from heaven" be? Is the Lord speaking of Godly signs, man-made signs, or signs of deception by Satan? Or, is it in reference to Luke 21:25-26 and Mark 13:24-25?

"and great signs shall there be from heaven; as comets and blazing stars, a flaming sword, or a comet like one, hanging over Jerusalem, and armies in the air engaged against each other" John Gill's Commentary

It's possible that some things taking place in heaven will be seen on earth during the Great Tribulation. Most notably Revelation 11:11-19. The world watches the slain witnesses ascend to heaven, they hear the voice of God from heaven declaring the kingdoms of the world now belong to the Lamb, there's thunders, lightnings, voices, and the temple of God opens and the ark can be seen. My guess since this passage states the nations of the world become angry at this is because they can see and hear it going on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Or perhaps Luke 21: 11 is referencing the Trumpet announcements. Which I believe are not God's Wrath but rather the result of sin intensifying throughout the world making all of God's creation groan and travail as the end approaches. The Lord says that He will then destroy they whom have destroyed the earth before His Vials of Wrath are poured (Rev 11:18).  Climate change is definitely real but not in the way the reprobates say. I believe it is being caused as the result of sin exponentially intensifying in spiritual sodom and throughout the host nations of Israel's desolation in 70AD as the end gets closer. 

Seals.thumb.jpg.a0e0d47f47cc7c99a6261e04925c8adf.jpg 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Thanks everyone! I will look more closely at the text and do some comparative study. I was leaning toward verses 11 and 25 being much the same. I know this, Christ is speaking to disciples, he speaks of something disciples can see, from what vantage point disciples will observe is not clear to me.

A couple things throw me from just a cursory look, 22 "For these be the days of vengeance," and 27 "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory." I've been taught and believe in the rapture of the church, I've become somewhat flexible toward the church seeing tribulation or I suppose its better to say how much tribulation we might encounter before God pours out His wrath on the children of wrath. Its all very interesting to me but, I don't want to become imbalanced focusing on a part of one verse of scripture.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

The whole seven years of the tribulation is a time of God’s wrath. Compare Luke 21, Matthew 24, and Mark 13 with Isaiah 13.

Isaiah 13:6-13

Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand;
it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
Therefore shall all hands be faint,
and every man's heart shall melt:
And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them;
they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth:
they shall be amazed one at another;
their faces shall be as flames.
Behold, the day of the LORD cometh,
cruel both with wrath and fierce anger,
to lay the land desolate:
and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light:
the sun shall be darkened in his going forth,
and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
And I will punish the world for their evil,
and the wicked for their iniquity;
and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease,
and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
I will make a man more precious than fine gold;
even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
Therefore I will shake the heavens,
and the earth shall remove out of her place,
in the wrath of the LORD of hosts,
and in the day of his fierce anger.
 

Luke 21:25-28
And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

in Isaiah 13 and Luke 21, there is both a near and far focus on the prophecies presented - but, notice how both passages use the same language to describe what will happen, and that Isaiah calls it the day of the Lord and a time of His wrath and anger.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
1 hour ago, 1Timothy115 said:

A couple things throw me from just a cursory look, 22 "For these be the days of vengeance," and 27 "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory." I've been taught and believe in the rapture of the church, I've become somewhat flexible toward the church seeing tribulation or I suppose its better to say how much tribulation we might encounter before God pours out His wrath on the children of wrath. Its all very interesting to me but, I don't want to become imbalanced focusing on a part of one verse of scripture.

Multitudes were taught erroneously that they would be saved from , or spared from, suffering if they became a 'Christian' in some gropus.    From all KJV and history, including the last ten years, and last couple centuries, and last 2000 years,

this is obviously not true testimony ,  not in line with Scripture at all, to tell them that they would not have to suffer or die for their faith in Jesus.

On 5/10/2021 at 8:26 AM, 1Timothy115 said:

There is no parallel from the other gospels for the following quotation from Luke 21. Has anyone studied this, I'm trying to gather all I can. 

Could you clarify for me what it is you want to find out more about ?   It certainly has all be studied and studied and studied, and ten thousand times a thousand volumes written about so many points (maybe a slight exageration here, but it sure feels that way) ....  and in the world system, as written, most of the many points of course are to keep peope from ever finding the truth or from even seeking for the truth and reality and Jesus.   Thus, everything must be verified by Scripture, in Harmony with all of God's Word, Plan and Purpose as He Himself Reveals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

Speaking as a guy who has his thoughts about it all, let me say this: 

We need to be careful saying anything with great certainty, on timing of the rapture, or the second coming, (except we know Christ will return 7 years from the start, but how we gauge the start is a question), or how exactly ew are to interpret the 3  sevens: the seals, the trumpets and the vials of wrath. 

Personally, I have viewed, for quite a while, the seals to be sort of a 'preview of coming attractions', as they appear to encompass a lot of events, start to finish, of the tribulation/wrath, yet it all takes place at the throne of God as john is standing in heaven, in the spirit.  Then the seven trumpets I see as the general activities that Satan is allowed to do as he pours his fury out on earth, staring from the arrival of the Beast as a man of peace, followed by war, famine, death and hell, and so on. Of course, it is God who is allowing these things, but Satan conducting it.

Then the seven vials of God's wrath are specifically exactly that: God's outpouring wrath upon mankind, though this takes place directly after Christ reaps his harvest, in Rev 14:14, because  we are not appointed to wrath.

But even this I read as being quite linear, and there are things in Revelation that do not appear to be linear, whether it is overall linear, with certain, what I would call, parenthetical events that aren't linear, or the whole things goes back and forth in time, in which case, it is hard to really say just how it will all play out.

So I think we ought to study it, and pray over it, even speculate over it, but be careful setting definite doctrines of it all. Yes, Christ is coming, Yes, believers will be removed at some point, yes, Jesus is returning to rule and reign a thousand years, which I believe to be literal, Yes, there will be a final, literal battle at the end of the thousand years, and yes, heaven and Earth will pass away, and be replaced with a new Heaven and new Earth for all eternity. But many other things are just a bit vague. But I do love the conversations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
4 minutes ago, Ukulelemike said:

Speaking as a guy who has his thoughts about it all, let me say this: 

We need to be careful saying anything with great certainty, on timing of the rapture, or the second coming, (except we know Christ will return 7 years from the start, but how we gauge the start is a question), or how exactly ew are to interpret the 3  sevens: the seals, the trumpets and the vials of wrath. 

Personally, I have viewed, for quite a while, the seals to be sort of a 'preview of coming attractions', as they appear to encompass a lot of events, start to finish, of the tribulation/wrath, yet it all takes place at the throne of God as john is standing in heaven, in the spirit.  Then the seven trumpets I see as the general activities that Satan is allowed to do as he pours his fury out on earth, staring from the arrival of the Beast as a man of peace, followed by war, famine, death and hell, and so on. Of course, it is God who is allowing these things, but Satan conducting it.

Then the seven vials of God's wrath are specifically exactly that: God's outpouring wrath upon mankind, though this takes place directly after Christ reaps his harvest, in Rev 14:14, because  we are not appointed to wrath.

But even this I read as being quite linear, and there are things in Revelation that do not appear to be linear, whether it is overall linear, with certain, what I would call, parenthetical events that aren't linear, or the whole things goes back and forth in time, in which case, it is hard to really say just how it will all play out.

So I think we ought to study it, and pray over it, even speculate over it, but be careful setting definite doctrines of it all. Yes, Christ is coming, Yes, believers will be removed at some point, yes, Jesus is returning to rule and reign a thousand years, which I believe to be literal, Yes, there will be a final, literal battle at the end of the thousand years, and yes, heaven and Earth will pass away, and be replaced with a new Heaven and new Earth for all eternity. But many other things are just a bit vague. But I do love the conversations.

It appears that Brother Mike and I would have a number of disagreements concerning "the flow of thought" throughout the Book of the Revelation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
17 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

It appears that Brother Mike and I would have a number of disagreements concerning "the flow of thought" throughout the Book of the Revelation.

Probably. Hebrew writing tend to move back and forth quite a lot, one of the reasons so many people look at Gen. 1&2, and see two different creation accounts, not understanding that the flow isn't all linear, rather Chapter 1 is an overview of the entire creation week, while chapter 2 is all about specifically the creation of man on the 6th day and what happened then, including the creating of one of each kind of animals and bird for Adam to name, and to give him a suitable mate. But many try to read it as linear, chapter 2 happened but is a different account of creation, making man first, then the animals and birds. 

As well, prophecy is often not terribly clear or specific-the destruction of Tyre was given as prophecy, yet took over 400 years to be completely fulfilled, in a few different events. The destruction of Nineveh was held of for 100 years due to the repentance of the people, but it still took place just as surely as God promised. 

This is all I am really saying: prophecy is rarely clear until after it is happened-I believe that we ought to look at it as literally as possible, yet even in the prophecies of the coming of Christ, we see allegory was used, as in the bulls of Bashan, and there weren't literal bulls of Bashan-there is often some allegorical usage in prophecy. So how much of what we read in revelation is allegorical or symbolic, how much is spiritual, or John reporting what he sees from a spiritual perspective, as to how it will appear in flesh to the eyes of them living during the events? Are the locust from the pit going to look literally as described to these on earth? or is John describing spiritual things that will look different to those here? Of course, personally, I believe there's no reason not to accept them as the Bible describes them, but I also give myself space to be wrong, because I am a man trying to figure out mighty spiritual activities, the likes of which have never been before. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
9 minutes ago, Ukulelemike said:

The destruction of Nineveh was held of for 100 years due to the repentance of the people, but it still took place just as surely as God promised. 

I don't remember God promising the destruction of Nineveh.   May be just a picky detail,   or might be important ? 

Similarly I noticed God apparently did not tell the people through Jonah that there was a way Nineveh could be spared,  yet after they repented (in sackcloth and ashes?) , highest to lowest,  He did spare them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrators

Jonah 1:2 (KJV) Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.

Jonah 3:2 (KJV) Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee.

Jonah 3:4 (KJV) And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators
2 hours ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

I don't remember God promising the destruction of Nineveh.   May be just a picky detail,   or might be important ? 

Similarly I noticed God apparently did not tell the people through Jonah that there was a way Nineveh could be spared,  yet after they repented (in sackcloth and ashes?) , highest to lowest,  He did spare them.

See Jim's quotes above for the first part of your comment.

And yes, I have often preached on the fact that the Lord declared a definite judgment, without any implied hope attached that He may not do it, yet due to their repentance, the Lord did, indeed, repent of what He was going to do to them. This tells us that the statement given to Israel that God is not pleased with the death of the wicked, but that the wicked would repent and be saved, applied to all who will repent, not just Israel, to whom the statement was actually made. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
26 minutes ago, Ukulelemike said:

And yes, I have often preached on the fact that the Lord declared a definite judgment, without any implied hope attached that He may not do it, yet due to their repentance, the Lord did, indeed, repent of what He was going to do to them.

No one posted any Scripture of God's "Promise" to destroy Nineveh.  

His Word is always True - there is no one God can swear by , no oath God can take on anything to make His Word more certain, is there ? 

Did God get persuaded "due to their repentance" ?  If so,  why ?   Esau, though he repented with tears, could not persuade God, right ?  Or the betrayer, Judas ?

God spared Nineveh because He wanted to .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

There are several passages that give general prophecies of judgement that also state if those same people turn from their sin, God would withhold the judgement, and also the opposite: if the righteous turn from righteousness, God will bring judgement. I’m not feeling well, but I am sure it is not too hard to find those passages.

Also, though Esau repented and later wanted the birthright, God did not change His mind on giving it to Jacob (it was His plan to give it to Jacob all along). Esau was never interested in walking with the Lord or getting any spiritual blessings - he just wanted to feed his fleshly appetites.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
On 5/10/2021 at 9:26 AM, 1Timothy115 said:

"and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven." [Luke 21:11]

Back on topic, I suppose there are no other scripture references which might shed further light on what these "fearful sights" and "great signs" coming "from heaven" might be besides...

 

On 5/10/2021 at 9:26 AM, 1Timothy115 said:

Luke 21:25-26 and Mark 13:24-25

So, possibly that is the end of the original question...

 

On 5/10/2021 at 9:26 AM, 1Timothy115 said:

What will these "fearful sights and great signs...from heaven" be? Is the Lord speaking of Godly signs, man-made signs, or signs of deception by Satan?

Yes, I will refer back to Isaiah and look closer at Thessalonians and the Revelation. But, I continue to think the answer is here in the 3 synoptic gospels. Thanks folks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
On 5/11/2021 at 4:10 PM, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

Multitudes were taught erroneously that they would be saved from , or spared from, suffering if they became a 'Christian' in some gropus.    From all KJV and history, including the last ten years, and last couple centuries, and last 2000 years,

this is obviously not true testimony ,  not in line with Scripture at all, to tell them that they would not have to suffer or die for their faith in Jesus.

Could you clarify for me what it is you want to find out more about ?   It certainly has all be studied and studied and studied, and ten thousand times a thousand volumes written about so many points (maybe a slight exageration here, but it sure feels that way) ....  and in the world system, as written, most of the many points of course are to keep peope from ever finding the truth or from even seeking for the truth and reality and Jesus.   Thus, everything must be verified by Scripture, in Harmony with all of God's Word, Plan and Purpose as He Himself Reveals.

Yes, I agree that,  "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." [2 Timothy 3:12] however, to what degree all depends on the Lord. But, according to everything else I've read or studied and been taught, born again Christians will not suffer "great tribulation." I may see some tribulation, I think we all will, but not the seven years of of it from Daniel.

The original question is what I wanted to find out more about but, I'm beginning to believe I have the answer. That answer being the inclusion of... 

27 minutes ago, 1Timothy115 said:

Isaiah and look closer at Thessalonians and the Revelation.

There are so many key words in scriptures pointing toward this end time prophecy that I may be listening to Jesus explain it before I satisfy my curiosity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

True Christians will suffer tribulation, be persecuted, be martyred for their faith. This has happened all through history - and even now is happening in some other countries (maybe not much in North America) - so there is no need for true Christians to go through the Great Tribulation (ie. in the sense that “they are not undergoing persecution and tribulation now” - but they are, just not here - and who is to say there won’t be greater tribulation and persecution as this world turns further and further from God and His Word). Also, from several passages, it is clear that the whole seven year tribulation period is a time of God’s wrath. The Lord Jesus Christ has already endured the wrath for our sins and has promised we will not face it. We would be enduring it if we were here during those seven years.

Edited by Jerry
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
2 hours ago, 1Timothy115 said:

Back on topic, I suppose there are no other scripture references which might shed further light on what these "fearful sights" and "great signs" coming "from heaven" might be besides...

 

So, possibly that is the end of the original question...

 

Yes, I will refer back to Isaiah and look closer at Thessalonians and the Revelation. But, I continue to think the answer is here in the 3 synoptic gospels. Thanks folks!

Acts 2

[19] And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
[20] The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
[21] And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Not the synoptic gospels but authored by Luke nonetheless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Who's Online   2 Members, 0 Anonymous, 9 Guests (See full list)

  • Recent Achievements

  • Tell a friend

    Love Online Baptist Community? Tell a friend!
  • Members

  • Popular Now

  • Recent Status Updates

    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 0 replies
    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 1 reply
    • Razor

      Psalms 139 Psalm 139:9-10
      9. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10. even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy righthand shall hold me. 
       
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West  »  Pastor Scott Markle

      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
      I really do not know where you are going with this. The Bible itself has revelations and prophecies and not all revelations are prophecies.
      Paul had things revealed to him that were hid and unknown that the Gentiles would be fellow heirs.
      How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:3-9
      And I do not mean this as a Hyper-dispensationalist would, for there were people in Christ before Paul (Rom. 16:7). This is not prophecy for there are none concerning the Church age in the O.T..
      Israel rejected the New Wine (Jesus Christ) and said the Old Wine (law) was better, had they tasted the New Wine there would be no church age or mystery as spoken above. to be revealed.
      It was a revealed mystery. Sure there are things concerning the Gentiles after the this age. And we can now see types in the Old Testament (Boaz and Ruth) concerning a Gentile bride, but this is hindsight.
      Peter could have had a ham sandwich in Acts 2, but he did not know it till later, by revelation. But this has nothing to do with 1John 2;23 and those 10 added words in italics. Where did they get them? Did the violate Pro. 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Where did they get this advance revelation? Was it from man, God or the devil?
        I just read your comment and you bypassed what I wrote concerning book arrangement, chapters being added and verse numberings and such. There is no scripture support for these either, should we reject these?
      Happy New Year
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West

      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
      SCRIPTURAL MARY

      I WALK NOT ON WATER NOR CHANGE IT TO WINE
      SO HEARKEN O’ SINNER TO THIS STORY OF MINE
      I, AM A DAUGHTER OF ABRAHAM SINNER BY BIRTH
      A HAND MAID OF LOW ESTATE USED HERE ON EARTH
      MY HAIR IS NOT GENTILE BLOND, I HAVE NOT EYES OF BLUE
      A MOTHER OF MANY CHILDREN A DAUGHTER OF A JEW
      FOR JOSEPH MY HUSBAND DID HONOUR OUR BED
      TO FATHER OUR CHILDREN WHO NOW ARE ALL DEAD
      BUT I SPEAK NOT OF THESE WHO I LOVED SO WELL
      BUT OF THE FIRST BORN WHICH SAVED ME FROM HELL
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               2
      WHEN I WAS A VIRGIN UNKNOWN BY MAN
      THE ANGEL OF GOD SPOKE OF GOD’S PLAN
      FOR I HAD BEEN CHOSEN A FAVOUR VESSEL OF CLAY
      TO BARE THE SON OF THE HIGHEST BY AN UNUSUAL WAY
      FOR THE SCRIPTURE FORETOLD OF WHAT WAS TO BE
      SO MY WOMB GOD FILLED WHEN HE OVER SHADOW ME
      BUT THE LAW OF MOSES DID DEMAND MY LIFE
      WOULD JOSEPH MY BETROTHED MAKE ME HIS WIFE
      I THOUGHT ON THESE THINGS WITH SO NEEDLESS FEARS
      BUT A DREAM HE RECEIVED ENDED ALL FEARS
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                              3
      THEN MY SOUL DID REJOICE IN GOD MY SAVIOR
      HE SCATTERED THE PROUD AND BLESS ME WITH FAVOR
      O’ THE RICH ARE EMPTY, THE HUNGRY HAVE GOOD THINGS
      FOR THE THRONE OF DAVID WOULD HAVE JESUS THE KING
      BUT BEFORE I DELIVERED THE MAN CHILD OF OLD
      CAESAR WITH TAXES DEMANDED OUR GOLD
      TO THE CITY OF DAVID JOSEPH AND I WENT
      ON A BEAST OF BURDEN OUR STRENGTH NEAR SPEND
      NO ROOM AT An INN, BUT A STABLE WAS FOUND
      WITH STRAW AND DUNG LAID ON THE GROUND
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
                                                  4
      MY MATRIX WAS OPEN IN A PLACE SO PROFANE
      FROM THE GLORY OF GLORIES TO A BEGGAR’S DOMAIN
      SO WE WRAPPED THE CHILD GIVEN TO THE HEATHEN A STRANGER
      NO REPUTATION IS SOUGHT TO BE BORN IN A MANGER
      HIS STAR WAS ABOVE US THE HOST OF HEAVEN DID SING
      FOR SHEPHERDS AND WISE MEN WORSHIP ONLY THE KING
      BUT HEROD THAT DEVIL SOUGHT FOR HIS SOUL
      AND MURDER RACHEL’S CHILDREN UNDER TWO YEARS OLD
      BUT JOSEPH MY HUSBAND WAS WARNED IN A DREAM
      SO WE FLED INTO EGYPT BECAUSE OF HIS SCHEME
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               5
      SO THE GIVER OF LIFE, THE ROCK OF ALL AGES
      GREW UP TO FULFILL THE HOLY PAGES
      HE PREACH WITH AUTHORITY LIKE NONE BEFORE
      PLEASE TRUST HIS WORDS AND NOT THE GREAT WHORE
      HER BLACK ROBE PRIEST FILL THEIR LIPS WITH MY NAME
      WITH BLASPHEMOUS PRAISE, DAMMATION AND SHAME
      THERE ARE NO NAIL PRINTS IN MY HANDS, MY BODY DID NOT ARISE
      NOR, AM A DEMON OF FATIMA FLOATING IN THE SKY
      THERE IS NO DEITY IN MY VEINS FOR ADAM CAME FROM SOD
      FOR I, AM, MOTHER OF THE SON OF MAN NOT THE MOTHER OF GOD
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
      6
      FOR MY SOUL WAS PURCHASED BY GOD UPON THE CROSS
      FOR MY SINS HE DID SUFFER AN UNMEASURABLE COST
      I WILL NOT STEAL HIS GLORY WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD
      ENDURING SPIT AND THORNS PLACED ON HIS HEAD
      YET, IF YOU WISH TO HONOR ME THEN GIVE ME NONE AT ALL
      BUT TRUST THE LAMB WHO STOOL IN PILATE’S HALL
      CALL NOT ON THIS REDEEMED WOMAN IN YOUR TIME OF FEAR
      FOR I WILL NOT GIVE ANSWER NEITHER WILL I HEAR
      AND WHEN THE BOOKS ARE OPEN AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE
      I AMEN YOUR DAMNATION THAT TRUST NOT HIM ALONE
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, O’ SINNER TRUST ME NOT

                       WRITTEN BY BRO. WEST
       
      · 0 replies
  • Topics

×
×
  • Create New...