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Salvation Before Christ?


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I have recently heard from many people that "People were saved by looking forward to the cross before and looking back at it after". I have also noticed that the majority of people who have said this were Calvinists. Since the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Christ was obviously not the focus of Abraham's Faith in Romans 4, how do you construct a view of the Bible without considering the dispensation of the scripture you are reading? In other words, what scripture do people use to defend this view of looking forward to the cross? I understand that the Bible starts speaking of a Messiah to come in Genesis, but I do not think Jesus' disciples understood fully what was going on, and they were with Him. In Luke 24

13 And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.

14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.

15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.

16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.

17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?

19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:

20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;

23 And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.

24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.

25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

So how were Abraham, Noah, David or others to know this? 

Does anyone believe that people before Christ were saved by Faith in Christ alone?

Would love some help and clarification here, Thank You! 

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33 minutes ago, OlBrotherDC said:

So how were Abraham, Noah, David or others to know this? 

What does the Creator Almighty Say in His Word about Abraham, Noah, David, or others ?

I think that is what is important,  as He Reveals What He Chooses to Reveal, right ?

34 minutes ago, OlBrotherDC said:

Does anyone believe that people before Christ were saved by Faith in Christ alone?

 

Simply,  I think you answered this question  ("does anyone believe...." )  early in the post >

35 minutes ago, OlBrotherDC said:

I have recently heard from many people that "People were saved by looking forward to the cross before and looking back at it after".

 

38 minutes ago, OlBrotherDC said:

Would love some help and clarification here, Thank You! 

Clarification about what is written,   

or

clarification about what people believe ?

I think what is written is most simple,

and what people believe varies tremendously all along as long as people have lived no earth ever since the Almighty Creator gave them life.

Perhaps this is over-simplified, but I believe people cannot do anything trusting themselves to save themselves -  the Creator looked from heaven and saw that no one, not one,  was seeking Him or at least not able to heal themselves,   so He took action,  He proceeded as planned before the world was created,   with His Plan in Christ Jesus,  to save souls, as written.

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39 minutes ago, OlBrotherDC said:

People were saved by looking forward to the cross before and looking back at it after".

This is generally true but technically it was not the cross. They Looked forward to the Christ who would one day come and save them. However, they did no know that the cross would be the method until after he rose again.

John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

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1 minute ago, John Young said:

 

 

This is generally true but technically it was not the cross. They Looked forward to the Christ who would one day come and save them. However, they did no know that the cross would be the method until after he rose again.

John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

Was Abraham justified by his faith in the Christ to come? Or His faith in the Father to fulfill the promises He had given to Abraham, such as being a father of many nations?and did he show his faith by his willingness to offer Isaac in sacrifice? I see the resemblance of God giving His son for sacrifice now, but did Abraham see that is what I am asking. 

10 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

What does the Creator Almighty Say in His Word about Abraham, Noah, David, or others ?

I think that is what is important,  as He Reveals What He Chooses to Reveal, right ?

Simply,  I think you answered this question  ("does anyone believe...." )  early in the post >

 

Clarification about what is written,   

or

clarification about what people believe ?

I think what is written is most simple,

and what people believe varies tremendously all along as long as people have lived no earth ever since the Almighty Creator gave them life.

Perhaps this is over-simplified, but I believe people cannot do anything trusting themselves to save themselves -  the Creator looked from heaven and saw that no one, not one,  was seeking Him or at least not able to heal themselves,   so He took action,  He proceeded as planned before the world was created,   with His Plan in Christ Jesus,  to save souls, as written.

I was asking does anyone “on here” believe that. 

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4 minutes ago, OlBrotherDC said:

I think I was more asking does anyone “on here” believe this. 

I expect one, or a few, or some , or many do believe a variety of things,  with perhaps quite a wide assortment,  perhaps not? .  Whether authorized, or permitted, or not, from recent posts by visitors, 

It appears even that some (at least one) recent visitors even believe people do not have to believe,  that they do not have to repent,   to be saved .  (the error or the false gospel of universalism). 

 

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2 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

I expect one, or a few, or some , or many do believe a variety of things,  with perhaps quite a wide assortment,  perhaps not? .  Whether authorized, or permitted, or not, from recent posts by visitors, 

It appears even that some (at least one) recent visitors even believe people do not have to believe,  that they do not have to repent,   to be saved .  (the error or the false gospel of universalism). 

 

Do you tell people that people in the Old Testament were saved by having faith in the messiah to come? 

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6 minutes ago, OlBrotherDC said:

Do you tell people that people in the Old Testament were saved by having faith in the messiah to come? 

No.

========================================

Does this Scripture below have any meaning related to your other posted questions? >>


Matthew 13:17 King James Version (KJV)

17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain

Edited by jeff_student_of_Jesus
clarity re "this"
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2 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

No.

========================================

Does this have any meaning related to your other posted questions? >>


Matthew 13:17 King James Version (KJV)

17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain

What would you tell them? 

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2 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

As Jesus directs and always did Himself and instructed all the disciples to do and say, I tell them whatever the Father, The Almighty Creator, reveals and/or directs me to tell them.

Which in the past has been?  Are you saying you receive extra-biblical revelation from God? 

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6 minutes ago, OlBrotherDC said:

Was Abraham justified by his faith in the Christ to come? Or His faith in the Father to fulfill the promises He had given to Abraham, such as being a father of many nations?and did he show his faith by his willingness to offer Isaac in sacrifice? I see the resemblance of God giving His son for sacrifice now, but did Abraham see that is what I am asking. 

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Hebrews 11:17-20 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19 accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. 20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
 

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4 minutes ago, John Young said:

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Hebrews 11:17-20 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19 accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. 20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
 

Thank you, I will look over some of the verses you have shared. 

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3 minutes ago, OlBrotherDC said:

Which in the past has been?

Always tell the truth.   I raised my sons in the way they should go, to love and to trust God always and to love the truth,   as Scripture Says Clearly ,  and they (and I) were the only ones many people met who would not lie,  even if they suffered loss ....  

Or more important,  as God Says in KJV Scripture - let every word and action be fully in harmony with God's Word -

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Taking-Action/
James 1:5 - If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

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The same can be shown for Moses (Hebrews 11:24-27), and David (Acts 2:30-31, 4:25-28), and many other OT saints, that they trusted in Christ (the coming messiah). Something to note as you read the gospels, the amount of people who were looking for "The Christ" to deliver them BEFORE Jesus died on the cross. They were not looking for the cross or some generic promise that God gave about the nation but rather looking for their savior. The wicked wanted to destroy him, the faithful wanted to submit to him. If you do a word study on "Christ" in the Gospels, before Jesus was sacrificed, you will see that they knew quite a bit on who Christ was and what Christ would to for them who trusted in Him. Most all of which they received from OT scripture. Some examples are:

King Herod, the Chief Priest, and the wise men knew of His promised coming and looked for "the Christ". Matthew 2:4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born. Luke 2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.

John the Baptist Preached the coming of Christ and that Christ Jesus would be a sacrificial lamb for sin. John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Peter and the disciples knew he was the Christ. Luke 9:20 He said unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Peter answering said, The Christ of God. John 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

The common people knew of Christ. John 4:42 and said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the worldJohn 7:42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was? John 12:34a The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever:

Edited by John Young
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17 hours ago, OlBrotherDC said:

I have recently heard from many people that "People were saved by looking forward to the cross before and looking back at it after". I have also noticed that the majority of people who have said this were Calvinists. Since the Death, Burial, and Resurrection of Christ was obviously not the focus of Abraham's Faith in Romans 4, how do you construct a view of the Bible without considering the dispensation of the scripture you are reading? In other words, what scripture do people use to defend this view of looking forward to the cross? I understand that the Bible starts speaking of a Messiah to come in Genesis, but I do not think Jesus' disciples understood fully what was going on, and they were with Him. In Luke 24

13 And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.

14 And they talked together of all these things which had happened.

15 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.

16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.

17 And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

18 And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?

19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:

20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

22 Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;

23 And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.

24 And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.

25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

So how were Abraham, Noah, David or others to know this? 

Does anyone believe that people before Christ were saved by Faith in Christ alone?

Would love some help and clarification here, Thank You! 

According to Romans 3:25 those in the past were saved by the blood of Christ (even though at the time they didn't realize it, that was the mystery of the gospel) but their salvation wasn't completed until Christ actually made the way to heaven clear. This is what the mention of the forbearance of God is all about. God put up with their unremitted sins until Christ made the propitiation. God was able to put up with this knowing that his Son would eventually remit their sins once and for all. This is why I believe the sacrifices were necessary not that they in of themselves saved a man but they looked forward to the time of salvation. They were not just ceremonial as some say but part of the way of their eventually salvation. They were kind of a put on hold type of salvation. They in of themselves did not save but temporarily covered sins and if a man didn't perform them he wasn't showing faith in the atonement of God reserved for the future therefore would end up in hell. I know this sounds like a contradiction but it's not if you carefully think it through. Until that time those who performed them in faith, after their death, had to ride it out in "Abraham's Bosom" until the final sacrifice was made by Christ. Then Christ led captivity captive.

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