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Counsel Needed About KJV Compromise


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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

For a number of months during the messages at our little local church, I've been silently quoting a verse here and there that I'd memorized and found that I was off a word or two; so I thought.  I didn't think that much about it because I figured that the Pastor was just quoting only part of the verse and continuing on with the message.  It didn't even cross my mind until this morning as we were listening to our pastor giving the message on our church's radio station.  He read a verse....one that I know very well...and I was flabberghasted!  I quickly got on the cell and for some reason chose the NKJV to compare to and it what it said.....and that is exactly what the Pastor was reading from.  In all honesty, I was just so disappointed and grieved that I simply couldn't even listen to the rest of the message.  We have a copy of the Statement of Faith from 2005, and it says very clearly that the King James Version is the church's "official" version.  I am so sad.  

The closest church that uses the KJV is at least 85 miles away - one way.  Years ago we actually used to drive that far to go to church...but now that we are seniors, we simply can't go through all of the weather and the distance to go that far.  Our church was the only church in our area that uses the KJV...and now...they don't.  Please, if any of you can just give some counsel to help us with this situation it would be greatly appreciated.  We know that this little church is the one that we have to stick with; that's just the way it is.  What we need counsel for is how to deal with the disappointment and sadness in a godly way...and how to keep our attitude in check.  The pastor at the church that we used to travel so far to - once said in one of his messages how important it is that we don't "browbeat" others about the KJV, but to remember that they probably just haven't been educated about it.  I realize that sometimes just the simple truth with respect and honor, wisdom and meekness...is all that we can respond with.  However, I believe that if that is to happen, that it needs to be my husband that follows through with that.  Sigh...of course, we will be seeking the Lord's counsel overall...

A very interesting verse that came to mind was Ps 138:2, "I will worship toward thy hold temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name."

Looking forward to your responses...WWMS  

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
Posted (edited)

I felt saddened to hear that your pastor is leading your church away not only from the firm stand on the KJV, and using the NKJV, but he is also turning away from the written covenant of the church in a deceitful manner. Apart from seeking guidance through prayer, I would have your husband first approach the pastor, and politely as he can, and express your concerns. If you feel that the pastor needs to educated concerning the reason why, or the differences between the KJV and the NKJV, I would sit down and select several passages that deal with a doctrinal issue, put them on paper, and have your husband try and discuss these specific passages. Also, I would bring a copy of the church covenant and mention that this is the official church position on the KJV issue. After a time of pause in the issue, if it is not rectified, or hearts are hardened, I would bring the issue before the deacons of the church and seek their counsel.

 

 

Edited by Alan
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If your church has, in it's statement of faith, something the entire church should have voted for, that the KJV is the only Bible to be used from the pulpit, then you need to kindly and humbly hold your pastor accountable. Pastors lead, but not like secular leaders-he is answerable to the church, and sometimes, we need to be reminded of this. 

It would be one thing to push a pastor to go against a statement of faith, or the rules set for the assembly, but quite another thing to hold him to obey them, as everyone else is supposed to. And if he continues to insist on leading down a wrong path, then the entire church needs to get involved and remind him that he serves the church, and is accountable to them, so long as they are accountable to God, and if he will not comply with the set rule, then maybe it is time for a new pastor. If he is quietly leading down a wrong path, then that path will only be the first. Sliding down the slope can be slow, but once it starts, it will continue if not dealt with swiftly.

Again, kindness, love and humility are very important, but so is truth and right.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Thank you Alan, Ukulelemike, and gracelife for your responses.  We are incorporating your thoughts into our prayers as we continue to seek the Lord's guidance.  I gave a somewhat shortened version of the situation...I would venture to say that probably the majority of the congregation uses a different version other than the KJV.  A few years ago, a fellow was chosen to teach Sunday School who uses another version.  We have yet to see an updated copy of the church's statement of faith, and we usually don't attend the business meetings, so we don't know if it was decided that the NKJV was deemed acceptable.  Sigh...I just can't help but to rehearse Jeremiah 17:9 in my heart and mind as I am seeing that "sliding down the slope slowly" as you mentioned, Mike.  Many years ago a lawyer friend of ours was adamant about our church using the KJV.  This friend also worked with the CLA traveling around the country defending churches.  There's just such a history there that we truly want to tread very wisely...and to respond in our hearts first with what is glorifying to our precious God.  Yes...we certainly will consider all of your suggestions, and again I thank you for them.  (Gracelife, thank you for suggesting listening to other preachers, and indeed we already listen to several.)

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Thank you for your comment.  I'm so very delighted in my KJV, and indeed the blessed Spirit is the most  Holy and perfect teacher of it.  Truly, it leaves me "wanting nothing".

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3 hours ago, robycop3 said:

  The NKJV is an updated KJV, using the same manuscripts used to make the KJV.

There are serious difference between the KJV and the NKJV-it is NOT just updated, and they didn't use a majority of the manuscripts as the KJV translators used. Example:

See the source imageSee the source image

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  A moderator told me not to discuss the KJVO myth here, so I won't, but let me say that "by" indicates the person or agent doing something, while "trrough" can indicate the person or agent  successfully completing a project or objective, I. E. "the team  pulled out a victory THROUGH the quarterback's accurate passing." Just a matter of semantics.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
12 hours ago, robycop3 said:

  A moderator told me not to discuss the KJVO myth here, so I won't, but let me say that "by" indicates the person or agent doing something, while "trrough" can indicate the person or agent  successfully completing a project or objective, I. E. "the team  pulled out a victory THROUGH the quarterback's accurate passing." Just a matter of semantics.

So...

...which word is correct?

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28 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

So...

...which word is correct?

Either.

6 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

You just can't help yourself, can you?

Not when it comes to telling the truth.

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17 minutes ago, robycop3 said:

Either

So...

Which one is interpreted correctly?

17 minutes ago, robycop3 said:

Not when it comes to telling the truth

So...

You're basically saying that God...

...who puts more importance on his word than his very name...and warns against adding to or taking away from his word...

...doesn't mind if his word is different in different versions.

Why are you here?

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15 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

So...

Which one is interpreted correctly?

So...

You're basically saying that God...

...who puts more importance on his word than his very name...and warns against adding to or taking away from his word...

...doesn't mind if his word is different in different versions.

Why are you here?

 When did you become an English professor ?

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WellWithMySoul,

I would like to recommend to you a book, 'One Book Stands Alone,' by Dr. Douglas Stauffer to help you deal with the situation with your pastor using the NKJV. The book gives one complete chapter, with examples, of the corruptness found in the NKJV. Some Christian bookstores either sell the book or they can order it for you. Here is the website address if you want to order it yourself. www.mccowenmills.com

Alan

Here is a quote from the book.

Concerning the NKJV Dr. Stauffer states, “The changes found in the NKJV are too numerous to list completely. Some significant removals in the NKJV are as follows:

22 omissions of hell

23 omissions of blood

44 omissions of repent

48 omissions of heaven

51 omissions of God

66 omissions of Lord

In addition to the above deletions, the words devils, damnation, JEHOVAH, and New Testament are omitted completely from the text of the NKJV!”1

 

1Stauffer, Douglas D., Dr., One Book Stands Alone, 2001. (Millbrook, AL: McCowen Mills Publisher), Page 150.

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56 minutes ago, robycop3 said:

 When did you become an English professor ?

I never claimed to be one; however, my English Literature professor often used my papers as examples for the other students.

Now...

Which word is correctly interpreted?

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Alan,

Thank you so very much for the suggestion of the book!  It sounds like a good one.  I would have to look, but we may even have that book.  We have several books about the differences in versions.  It's amazing the subtleties and changes that are made.  It's all so very "crafty" and sly and deceitful.  In my heart, I want to focus so much on what my KJV says, that it's so much easier to recognize what it does not say.  That is how over the months I was able to at least get "red flags" especially on the verses I had memorized.  That Sunday that it finally grabbed my attention, I recognized a verse that the Pastor read that I had memorized  among many back in the 80's when I was homeschooling our kiddos.  That particular verse was James 1:4 - "But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing." The NKJV uses the word "lacking" (or a form of that) instead of "wanting".  To me, that was a significant difference.  "Lacking nothing" to me, means there could be more - while "wanting nothing" means that it's "perfect and entire"!

Again, Alan, thank you so very much for suggesting the book!!  I truly appreciate it.

To the others discussing the differences in versions, it's all good - but what I really need is counsel on - is how to have godly integrity/attitude in my heart first, in my mind/thoughts, and in my words/behaviours concerning a response to our pastor.  I am accountable to God first for every word that proceeds out of my mouth for He knows every thought and intent in my heart.  I greatly desire to be pleasing to Him, and that whatsoever I do, that I do it to His glory!  We love our pastor and each member of the congregation and so anything that we should say or do, "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal" (I Cor. 13:1).  I respect our pastor greatly, for it's easy to see that He loves the Lord.  I'm hurt and disappointed, but I love him as my brother in the Lord, as well as the others.  I don't want to in turn hurt or disappoint them by my response.

Overall, I am looking to the Author and Finisher of my faith...WWMS

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22 hours ago, robycop3 said:

  A moderator told me not to discuss the KJVO myth here, so I won't, but let me say that "by" indicates the person or agent doing something, while "trrough" can indicate the person or agent  successfully completing a project or objective, I. E. "the team  pulled out a victory THROUGH the quarterback's accurate passing." Just a matter of semantics.

Your initial statement with a caveat of supposedly acceding to moderator instructions is belied by your erroneous attachment of the word "myth," as well as your further statements of correction. It is not a matter of semantics. While some prepositions have similar meanings, they are not the same. You will cease and desist from "correcting" the KJB immediately, roby, in any way. You very well know that this is a KJB site, and yet you continually disrespect that. It needs to stop now. 

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9 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

I never claimed to be one; however, my English Literature professor often used my papers as examples for the other students.

Now...

Which word is correctly interpreted?

 Both.

1 hour ago, HappyChristian said:

Your initial statement with a caveat of supposedly acceding to moderator instructions is belied by your erroneous attachment of the word "myth," as well as your further statements of correction. It is not a matter of semantics. While some prepositions have similar meanings, they are not the same. You will cease and desist from "correcting" the KJB immediately, roby, in any way. You very well know that this is a KJB site, and yet you continually disrespect that. It needs to stop now. 

  Very well !

 

  However, if anyone wishes to discuss KJVO with me,  (and others) you may find me on the "Baptist Board" site, where I post as "robycop3".

 

https://www.baptistboard.com/

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1 hour ago, robycop3 said:

  However, if anyone wishes to discuss KJVO with me,  (and others) you may find me on the "Baptist Board" site, where I post as "robycop3".

You may rest assured that I will not be going to that board seeking to discuss or find you at any time soon, or ever in fact.

 

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
10 hours ago, WellWithMySoul said:

To the others discussing the differences in versions, it's all good - but what I really need is counsel on - is how to have godly integrity/attitude in my heart first, in my mind/thoughts, and in my words/behaviours concerning a response to our pastor. 

WWMS,

I sincerely apologize for my part in this; please forgive me.

I pray that the Lord will give you wisdom and understanding in how to handle your current situation.

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Thank you, NN, it was kind of you to apologize and to be considerate - even though I was not at all offended.  I certainly understand the passion behind standing on God's Word.  I am always aware of John 1:1!  Truly, if we were physically face to face with the Saviour would we have the audacity to basically "correct" His words to make them easier to understand?  Perhaps that's not the best of illustrations because of the translation to English, but to me concerning the KJV, it is.  Aren't people just trying to "bring God down to their level of understanding" rather than to trust and to be continually growing up in Him?  Anyway, yes, I could go on and on for I too have a passion about fearing Him and desiring to be transformed more and more to His likeness, His way, His timing, and by His workmanship.  My KJV has never failed me, and when I don't understand verses or passages, I ask Him to teach me what He wants me to understand and know; "...Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, sayeth the LORD of hosts" (Zech. 4:6b). 

We are still praying about our response to our pastor first seeking meekness (II Tim. 2:25).   I know that the Lord will bring right thoughts and all utterance according to His purpose as we seek His will and way and avail ourselves to Him.  Even as I sit here thinking of all of this, I'm just so saddened.  Perhaps if the Lord leads any to post some scripture about how to handle compromise with a right heart, it would truly be helpful.

Thank you again, NN.

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On 5/13/2020 at 6:07 AM, robycop3 said:

  The NKJV is an updated KJV, using the same manuscripts used to make the KJV.

It would be just an update of the Kjv to modern grammar!

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Posted (edited)
On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2020 at 9:00 AM, WellWithMySoul said:

  That particular verse was James 1:4 - "But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing." The NKJV uses the word "lacking" (or a form of that) instead of "wanting".  To me, that was a significant difference.  "Lacking nothing" to me, means there could be more - while "wanting nothing" means that it's "perfect and entire"!

 

"Want" or "wanting" in the 1600's was often used with the meaning "lack" or "lacking" so there would not be a significant difference.

At James 1:4, D. A. Waite's Defined King James Bible gives the following definition for "wanting:"  "lacking, needing."

At the entry for "want," David W. Daniels in his booklet The King James Bible Companion gave this definition:  "lack, be deficient" (Deut. 28:48).

At its entry for "want," David Cloud in his Concise King James Bible Dictionary gave this definition:  "to lack" (John 2:3) (p. 95). 

In his book entitled Archaic Words and the Authorized Version, Laurence M. Vance wrote:  "The word want in the AV is never used in the sense of desire but rather with the older meaning of lacking or deficient in" (p. 370).

Edited by Tyndale
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