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2 hours ago, Ukulelemike said:

Let's look in CONTEXT, (because context is king in biblical interpretation):

"The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah. In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.  And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn." (Zech 12:7-10)

In context, we see the entire setting here is Judah, Jerusalem, the house of David. This is figurative for Israel as a whole, the people of God, who, at the time of context, being invaded by the armies of the world, and when Jesus returns, they will all see Him, "whom they have pierced". Why does all Israel count as those who have pierced Jesus? Because this speaks of the crucifixion as a whole, not just the Roman guard himself who pierced His side, because it was not Rome that sought to kill Jesus, it was the Jews who demanded it, who threatened Pilate if he didn't, and it was the Jews who said, "His blood be on us, and on our children." (Matt 27:25). THEY pierced Jesus just as surely as if their hands held the blade that did so. 

So those in Jerusalem will see Jesus come down, and immediately recognize who He is, that this is the one their fathers pierced and killed, that He is the one they have rejected for so long, and they will weep and mourn for their blindness and rejection and, I suspect, for all the time they lost not serving Him that was before their faces the whole time. 

Amen and Amen, Brother Mike. Thanks for posting this.

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And again, you are misrepresenting what I said. I merely said that David Cloud holds the Pre-trib rapture to be a fundamental of the faith, and that, according to MY understanding as a Fundamentalist,

TomB, The above study on the trumpets was taken from the following link:   TomB, If you would carefully study the "Trumpets" in the Bible, in both the Old and New Testament, it

Forgive me, but, the wrath of God is not just "at the end." The wrath of God, the JUDGMENT of God, starts at Revelation 6:1 with the Anti-Christ conquering the nations of the world, and continues to t

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On 3/3/2020 at 12:26 PM, Alan said:

 I deleted my post because I deleted what I wanted to say as I did not want to argue with a moderator and because you had to write something, so,  I just said the word, "empty."

I took it the other way too.  I've edited the post to say 'deleted comment' to remove future confusion. 🙂

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I think most pre-trib, pre-mil people don’t think that people professing to be post-trib are actually post trib at all, I think they would be considered “mid-trib” if they’re using the post trib pre wrath phrase. 

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9 hours ago, OlBrotherDC said:

I think most pre-trib, pre-mil people don’t think that people professing to be post-trib are actually post trib at all, I think they would be considered “mid-trib” if they’re using the post trib pre wrath phrase. 

Correct. Personally, I call it post-trib, because I see a significant difference between the 'tribulation' and the 'wrath', the tribulation occurring before the falling of God's wrath. 

In the tribulation, while God controls all that happens, yet Satan also is given (controlled) free reign to persecute Israel and any believers present. But when God's wrath falls, Satan and the Antichrist and their followers are directly punished by God's wrath, and they no longer have power. And as for how long each takes to happen, the Bible isn't clear, which is why I can still see us not know WHEN Christ will return. It isn't as if one things start, we will have an exact number of days or weeks until the rapture. The wrath of God may well occur very quickly, in a matter of days, even hours. 

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On 1/18/2020 at 1:47 AM, LYDIA WESTERN said:

This is my first time on here. I’m an Australian IB Pastor’s daughter. There’s smoke everywhere over here, just by the way. My friends house burnt down the other day.

One of the churches that we have had an interface with have suddenly come out as Post-Trib. If anyone knows David Cloud, he was out here just recently and did a full series of meetings with them and then found out AFTERWARDS (from my pastor brother) that they’ve been “studying” the subject of prophecy all year, and hey presto! The church is in for the guillotein. I’ve got friends in that church, and now they’re telling me they’re post-trib. It’s a bit lonely here in Australia. Most of our churches are hundreds of km apart. Apparently the States sometimes has more than one IB church in a big town! I can’t believe it! They must have more friends too then to make up for any losses.

I was just wondering if anyone has any helpful thoughts on a post-trib view (or pre-trib view, depending how you look at it).

As far as I can see, we are not appointed to wrath (and that meaning the whole 7 year tribulation). God will keep us “from the hour of temptation” that will come upon the whole earth”. 



many of the Early Church fathers held to a form of that, which is called Historical Premil position.

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