Members Roselove Posted December 18, 2019 Members Share Posted December 18, 2019 When Jesus says the only way you can divorce your wife and it be permitted, is if she commits fornication (either before or during betrothal, I suppose), is it a situation where the woman would be married to the person she had relations with, in God’s eyes (relations=marriage?) or was it not something that had to be done, but would be permissible for other reasons? Basically, what if the woman was truly repentant of her past actions and truly loved and wanted to be a good wife to the man. Would the man have to not be with her, to be in God’s will, because by God’s law, it would be forbidden, or is it something you can choose to do, if you decide that you can’t trust her or it was shameful in appearance or something? Also, is a marriage only legitimate if one of them is saved? I think I’ve heard that, but wanted clarification. I hope my question makes sense! Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members No Nicolaitans Posted December 18, 2019 Members Share Posted December 18, 2019 I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what you're asking about fornication and divorce. Regarding marriage...my belief is that whether the couple are both Christians, if neither of them are Christians, or only one of them is a Christian...they are bound to one another in God's eyes. He ordained marriage without specifying the couple's belief system. There may be biblical and secular reasons for divorce..."but from the beginning it was not so." (Matthew 19:8) If I'm wrong, I will both accept it and acknowledge it. swathdiver 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roselove Posted December 18, 2019 Author Members Share Posted December 18, 2019 Okay, thank you! In regards to the other question, I’m asking if it was mandatory to put the woman away for fornication or was it something they could choose to do if they just personally didn’t desire to be married to her anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Salyan Posted December 18, 2019 Moderators Share Posted December 18, 2019 Relations do not equal marriage. God may have permitted this divorce ‘because of the hardness of their hearts’, as Jesus said, but we see fairly clearly that He hates divorce. I believe it’s safe to say that divorce is never mandatory in His eyes; if the union can be saved, He wants that. Pastor Scott Markle, Roselove and swathdiver 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members swathdiver Posted December 19, 2019 Members Share Posted December 19, 2019 The doctrine of marriage for the church age is found in 1st Corinthians. Jesus was talking to Jews about their laws during their time which was about to end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Martyr_4_FutureJoy Posted December 19, 2019 Members Share Posted December 19, 2019 How many times does the "become one flesh" statement appear in Scripture ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Salyan Posted December 19, 2019 Moderators Share Posted December 19, 2019 You should be able to find that for yourself in a Bible search software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roselove Posted December 20, 2019 Author Members Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) “But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.” 1 Corinthians 7:28 KJV What does this mean? Is it a sin then, for a non-virgin woman to be married to someone besides the man that had relations with her, first? Well, I also have read the virgin in regards to a woman can just mean “maiden”, too. So maybe I was interpreting it wrong. Not sure. Edited December 20, 2019 by Roselove Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Salyan Posted December 20, 2019 Moderators Share Posted December 20, 2019 That specific section relates to Paul's opinion that it's better to stay single rather than get married, but that in the end, it's not a sin to get married. 'Trouble in the flesh' is just a fact of binding two sinful people together (in that everyone is a sinner, not that those two in particular committed fornication). This passage doesn't refer at all to fornication and the consequences. Jim_Alaska 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted December 20, 2019 Members Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) I've heard it so many times that it's considered"fornication" only premarital or during the "betrothal" period. But I know of three (3) families, baptists, in which the husband went to prison for molesting the children. If that isn't "fornication" I don't know what is. It would be so with an offending wife as well.. The Bible says ''except it be for fornication'';' otherwise, marriage is always holy and legitimate. Edited December 20, 2019 by heartstrings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roselove Posted December 21, 2019 Author Members Share Posted December 21, 2019 On 12/20/2019 at 8:31 AM, heartstrings said: I've heard it so many times that it's considered"fornication" only premarital or during the "betrothal" period. But I know of three (3) families, baptists, in which the husband went to prison for molesting the children. If that isn't "fornication" I don't know what is. It would be so with an offending wife as well.. The Bible says ''except it be for fornication'';' otherwise, marriage is always holy and legitimate. That is so, horrible. That would be such a horrifying thing to learn of someone at your church, especially! Are you saying a person that’s ever committed fornication of any kind, isn’t allowed to ever be married, though? I still think it could be allowed if found out, but not sure if it would actually make the marriage, illegitimate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Spd1275 Posted January 13, 2020 Members Share Posted January 13, 2020 Is there no room in the marriage room for mercy, repentance, forgiveness or grace? For IBs to place marriage into a topic which is so hard and fast that all prohibitions and labels always apply actually gives Seventh Day Adventist arguments for an unchanging Sabbath validity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members weary warrior Posted January 13, 2020 Members Share Posted January 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Spd1275 said: Is there no room in the marriage room for mercy, repentance, forgiveness or grace? For IBs to place marriage into a topic which is so hard and fast that all prohibitions and labels always apply actually gives Seventh Day Adventist arguments for an unchanging Sabbath validity. I fear this post makes no sense to me. Mercy, repentance, forgiveness and grace are always available. However, none of the 4 have actually have anything to do with the consequence of sin. You can have an affair, get aids, repent and beg for forgiveness from God and man, fully receive that forgiveness, but you still have aids. Get drunk, drive and hit someone. Can you get forgiveness? Yes. Are you still going to jail? Yes. Break the holy bond between man and woman set up by God. Will you be forgiven? Yes. Is there mercy? Yes. Are there still consequences? Yes. I have counseled so many people over the years that although their cheating spouse gives grounds for divorce, they biblically may not re-marry. I've always been ignored. Always. Everyone of them has an unhappy, unfortunate second marriage today. One of those is my baby sister. Her second husband was an IFB pastor. Who had been divorced himself before salvation. He left his pulpit a couple of Sundays ago after the morning message where he "pastors" his IFB, KJV only baptist church , went home and told her out of the blue he wants a divorce. Not every command or prohibition of God is easy. But they all bear consequences if ignored, reasoned and explained away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Spd1275 Posted January 13, 2020 Members Share Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) Weary Warrior, thank you for responding. Of course sin has consequence. Always. I grew up in a church that relegated the divorced/remarried to a back row. Regardless of their own guilt, they were branded and tarnished forever. Of course those who passed judgement were the gossips, strict legalisms and probably unsaved membership. i am sorry you have never met a happily 2ndmarriage couple tho. I happen to be one of those. Ya see, I was a pastor, and I fell. That was 25 years ago. I have not preached since, nor would I. But I later did remarry, and we celebrate 25 years in a few months. God has used me in other ways after my brokenness and repentance. Unfortunately for most of us IBs, we have historically branded our fallen with a giant A on the forehead, then taken them out and shot them. And THAT extreme is what I refer to as the SDAdvenist line of reason for insisting on Sabbath worship. Edited January 13, 2020 by Spd1275 Misspelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members weary warrior Posted January 13, 2020 Members Share Posted January 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, Spd1275 said: Weary Warrior, thank you for responding. Of course sin has consequence. Always. I grew up in a church that relegated the divorced/remarried to a back row. Regardless of their own guilt, they were branded and tarnished forever. Of course those who passed judgement were the gossips, strict legalisms and probably unsaved membership. i am sorry you have never met a happily 2ndmarriage couple tho. I happen to be one of those. Ya see, I was a pastor, and I fell. That was 25 years ago. I have not preached since, nor would I. But I later did remarry, and we celebrate 25 years in a few months. God has used me in other ways after my brokenness and repentance. Unfortunately for most of us IBs, we have historically branded our fallen with a giant A on the forehead, then taken them out and shot them. And THAT extreme is what I refer to as the SDAdvenist line of reason for insisting on Sabbath worship. Don't misunderstand me, I have met happy second marriages, just not those I have counseled away from it. And I do not believe that happy constitutes right. I do fully agree with you that a person who finds themselves in the position in life is not to be cast aside, and that God absolutely can use them, although not in the pastorate. I also fully agree that we in the IFB have had a general propensity over the years to shoot our wounded and fallen. To me, one of the greatest challenges to face the church today is how do we find balance? Balance between standing uncompromisingly for Biblical truth, while maintaining grace for those who, like all of the rest of us, have come up short. For example, it is just as unbiblical for some IFB pastor in Arizona (who shall remain unnamed) to preach God hates gays and that they can't get saved as it is to preach God loves everybody and gays are welcome in the church, unrepentant and unchanged. It's a drastic example, but I guess it illustrates (maybe) how my thought process runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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