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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         14
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

The Four Returns of Christ.


John Young
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On 9/20/2019 at 4:38 AM, John Young said:

Basic Revelation Outline:
The Four Returns of Christ.
1-4 For His Body (Rapture of the Church, 7 Candlesticks)
5-7 For His House (Cleansing the Temple, 7 Seals)
8-14 For His Nation (Saving Sealed Israel, 7 Trumpets)
15-22 For His Kingdom (Judging The World, 7 Vials)

Chronology of Revelation is progressive and accumulative in nature.

Fascinating outline although I'm not convinced the seven churches are seven "historical" churches. John was already "in the Spirit on the Lord's day" (Rev. 1:10) when he wrote to those churches and "the Lord's day" is not Sunday or the Sabbath it's "the day of the Lord". I believe those are "churches" during the Great Tribulation (Rev. 2:22) and would explain the "hour of temptation" that would try the whole earth (Rev. 3:10). These churches would not be part of the body of Christ (Acts 7:38).

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
2 hours ago, SureWord said:

I'm not convinced the seven churches are seven "historical" churches. John was already "in the Spirit on the Lord's day" (Rev. 1:10) when he wrote to those churches

They are historical because he is writing the book to them after he had the vision and he was directed to give each a whole copy of the vision. Revelation 1:1-9 is the introduction to John's testimony of the vision. Just as John is real, so to are the churches to whom he was writing. The rest of us are simply invited to read, hear and keep the testimony. While they are the first recipients the rest of us are called upon to apply the revelation to our day and keep it for the next. Though its fulfilment is future, it had a present application for them then and for each of us who were to come after ("for the time is at [our] hand").

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. 4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia:

I John, who also am your brother, and companion
[present tense, they and he are physically, historically and literally present.] in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was [past tense] in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was [past tense] in the Spirit on the Lord’s day,

Edited by John Young
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On 10/24/2020 at 10:39 PM, John Young said:

They are historical because he is writing the book to them after he had the vision and he was directed to give each a whole copy of the vision. Revelation 1:1-9 is the introduction to John's testimony of the vision. Just as John is real, so to are the churches to whom he was writing. The rest of us are simply invited to read, hear and keep the testimony. While they are the first recipients the rest of us are called upon to apply the revelation to our day and keep it for the next. Though its fulfilment is future, it had a present application for them then and for each of us who were to come after ("for the time is at [our] hand").

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. 4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia:

I John, who also am your brother, and companion
[present tense, they and he are physically, historically and literally present.] in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was [past tense] in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was [past tense] in the Spirit on the Lord’s day,

First off, I know John was a real person but there are doctrinal issues if you apply some of his words to believers in this age just like with the gospels. For example, nobody in the body of Christ will have their names blotted out of the book of life if they fail to overcome (Rev 3:5). We've overcame because Christ overcame. His letters to the seven churches are rife with Tribulational references. Even his opening in Rev. 1:7.

Secondly, yes John was a "companion in tribulation" on the Isle of Patmos because he received his revelation at this time and suffered along with them as they suffered 2,000 years into the future. He was "in the Spirit on the Lord's day" when the Revelation, including those words to the seven churches, were given to him.

David prophesied "my God, my God why has though forsaken me"  in the place of Christ 1,000 years before Christ was crucified. We now know it ultimately applied to Christ but at the time it could have applied to David himself. Just as the promise of Elijah could have been fulfilled in John the Baptist as our Lord attests to but will be fulfilled in Elijah. Scripture has dual applications.

The O.T. is jammed packed with verses that were speaking to a person, group of people, event, etc at that time but ultimately applied to a future person, people, event, etc. Many passages have dual fulfillments. One historically and one prophetically. As well as a devotional application. Why should we expect any different in the N.T. Just a clear reading of the four Gospels will reveal this. Paul's epistles are such also. Written to churches during his day but also to us 2,000 years later. Paul clearly was telling Christians in his day that the Rapture was near. Was he lying? No. Peter quotes a Second Coming passage to the Jews on Pentecost? Was he lying? No. Dual application.

The "seven churches" are also such. They could be to seven historical churches, and they can be preached on to local churches for spiritual and devotional applications but ultimately they are doctrinally aimed at churches during the Tribulation. Again, I'm not speaking of churches within the body of Christ.

"Out of Egypt have I called my son". Dual application there. Israel and Jesus Christ.

Finally, again we suffer along with the saints who've already run the race (Heb. 12) and Paul was with the Corinthians "in spirit" (I Cor. 5:3) so John could be with those people in spirit to still suffer along with them.

 

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So tonight during my bible reading I read Mark 13 and this further illuminates upon what I'm saying about the seven churches of Asia.

In Mark 13 after the apostles ask our Lord concerning the destruction of the temple, when it would occur and any sign concerning it, Jesus addressed the apostles like they themselves would be experiencing the events prior to his second advent (vs 10,14) but we know, short of them returning with Moses and Elijah, they would not be part of the Great Tribulation (though, it's possible they could have been if it occured in their day- vss 32-37). Our Lord also mentions that that generation would not pass until these things were fulfilled (vs 30) but they have been gone for nearly 2,000 years. Therefore the Lord was ultimately addressing a future group of people at that time. I believe this same principle applies to the seven churches of Revelation. That, along with doctrinal issues chiefly concerning soteriology during this Church Age, is the reason those "churches" being addressed must be churches (the elect of Mark 13:20-22) during the Great Tribulation. It possibly could have been fulfilled in those seven "historical" churches but never was just as Elijah could have been fulfilled in John the Baptist. The man of sin, the son of perdition, has been held back since those days.

I'd say right now we are entering the "morning" of the long night that our Lord mentions in Mark 13:35.

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On 9/20/2019 at 1:38 AM, John Young said:

Basic Revelation Outline:
The Four Returns of Christ.
1-4 For His Body (Rapture of the Church, 7 Candlesticks)
5-7 For His House (Cleansing the Temple, 7 Seals)
8-14 For His Nation (Saving Sealed Israel, 7 Trumpets)
15-22 For His Kingdom (Judging The World, 7 Vials)

Chronology of Revelation is progressive and accumulative in nature.

See only one for his second coming event itself!

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  • 9 months later...
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

The Four Stage return of Christ - A Basic Revelation Outline, Part - 2 (See Part 1 and Book outline here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6s_Q...)

The Return for His house the Temple. And the restarting of Israelite prophesy.

Chapters 5-7 The Return for His House (Cleansing the Temple, 7 Seals) Time: Rapture til Midweek Chapter 5: Christ is found worthy to open the book and start Daniel’s 70th week (D.9). Chapter 6: Christ opens six seals, which initiates the first half of Daniel’s 70th week. Chapter 7: Christ re-initiates events of Ezekiel and Matt 23-24 leading to desolation of Anti-Christ Israel, The great tribulation, and the birth of righteous Israel.

     Christ, reunited with his Spiritual body, now claims his role as Head of Israel (5:5-6) and in order to restart Daniel’s 7th Week (Dan 9:24) as a judgment upon Israel (1 Peter 4:17, 1 Cor 11:31, Matt 23:29-39, Heb 10:5-10, Psalm 40:4-10, Acts 7:34-60) which had been indefinably delayed until the gospel was preached (Luke 16:16, Rom 11:11,25, Acts1:6-8, Matthew 24:14, Dan 12:8-13, Rev 10:1,5-7, Rom 8:21-23). The scroll is the delayed prophesy and seals are things needed to be put in place to initiate his coming judgment and to reclaim his earthly throne (The ark ), as shown in the visions of Ezekiel 7-11.

     This throne will be transported to Israel’s desolate house (the Temple in Israel), in which the Ani-Christ will attempt to claim by placing his image in it (2 Thess 2:1-12, Ez 8:1-4) midweek. This act cause God's glory to appear upon the throne, who then directs seven angels judge the wicked and seal the righteous in the temple and in Jerusalem (Ez 8:17-18, Ez 9). This event will anger the Anti-Christ who will then retaliate by initiating war against the saints who flee Jerusalem and enter the wilderness (Matthew 24:15-22, Rev 12:14). The anti-Christ will then initiate the “Great tribulation purge” by slaughtering any non-sealed but repentant people he can find and will reclaim the city (Psalm 79, Reva 6:9-11, 7:9-12) but not the temple or the inner court which will be divinely protected so that he two prophets God chooses can witness in the inner court before the temple doors to the world (Revelation 11:2-3, Zech 4:14, 9:8).

Of note is the contrast of Christ in Revelation 1 and in Revelation 5:
1. midst of the seven candlesticks vs in the midst of the throne, four beasts, and elders 2. like unto the Son of man vs a Lamb as it had been slain (Heb 9:26), Lion of Judah, Root of David 3. had in his right hand seven stars vs seven horns and seven eyes/ Spirits of God (Zech 3:8, 4:10) 4. have the keys of hell and of death vs prevailed to open book, and to loose the seven seals

Summery Notes: Scroll represents the prophetic events promised to Israel that have been sealed until the Great Commission is completed (Dan 12:9). Christ being the initiator and author of all prophetic events has chosen to stop and seal up Israeli (and by default the word's) end time events so that in the church age only our commission is known (Acts 1:6-8). Breaking the seals causes forces to go forth and initiate the events leading up to the abomination of desolation which will cause Israel and the world to be judged.

Seals: Horses: (1) War, (2) Famine, (3) Pestilence, (4) Death. (5) Prayer of Slaughtered saints, (6) earth quaking and heaven revealed and the abomination in the temple destroyed, (7) Silence in heaven for half an hour then incense representing prayer of the Saints is offered, just before trumpets sound.

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  • 1 month later...
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

 

The Four Stage return of Christ - A Basic Revelation Outline, Part – 3

The return for Righteous Israel, Led by the two witnesses and 144,000 sealed and elect saints of God.

-Chapters 8-14 The return For His Nation (Saving Sealed Israel, 7 Trumpets) Time: Last half of the week

Chapter 8-9: Christ opens 7th seal initiating Prayer of Slaughtered Saints from 6:10-11, 7:13-15 and Psalm 79. and Six angels sound the coming Judgment of God.
Chapter 10: John is shown the Seven Thunders that will come just after the seventh angel sounds but before the vial judgments. They will reveal God's eternal plans.
Chapter 11: Two temple prophets described. Called away just before 7th angel sounds.
Chapter 12: New's Israel's Spiritual struggle with The Devil is shown.
Chapter 13: The earth's Struggle with the Beast and False Prophet is shown.
Chapter 14: Christ gathers Israel to Mt. ZION and gathers the World to be judged.

After the 144,000 flee Jerusalem and are safely out of anti-Christ/devil's reach (Rev 12:6,17) and with the two witnesses defending and proclaiming at the Jerusalem temple (Rev 11:2-3) they turn their focus on the world's remaining believers and attempts to slaughter them all in a world wide Great Tribulation Purge (Rev 6:11, 7:9-14, 13:5-8). Their arrival and prayers in heaven causes Christ to open the Seventh seal which initiates the 7 trumpets which sound the coming of Christ to earth to rescue Israel and judge Babylon for the slaughter. They are meant as clear and visible warnings for all to repent. (Rev 9:20-21)

During this end times slaughter the vail between heaven and earth is removed and can be seen by earth (Rev 6:12-17, Mat24:27). Heavenly destruction and signs are shown by the trumpets but the anti-Christ/ false Prophet manipulates many to follow them instead of repenting, by deceiving them in seeing heaven as the enemy of man and the signs as their own (Rev 13:5-7). This continues for 42 months/1260 days until the 7th trumpet sounds and Christ physically steps foot on Mt. of Olives (Zech 14:1-11, Acts 1:6-12) and Gathers his elect 144,000 to Mt. Zion from the wilderness (Rev 14:1, Mat 24:30-31).

In his arrival and just after the angels gather New Israel, he sends forth one last call to surviving nations to repent before reaping and poring out the vials of judgments on Babylon (Rev 14:6-12, Joel 2:30-32).

Trumpets: 1st: Hail and fire mingled with blood falls on earth, 2nd: As it were a great mountain burning with fire falls on earth, 3rd: A great star from heaven (wormwood) falls on earth, 4th: Third part of the sun, moon stars are smitten, and an angel giving warning of three more woes to come, 5th: A star falls from heaven (opening the pit releasing locust and the angel leader Abaddon to torment men for 5 months), 6th: Releases 4 angels from Euphrates which initiates an army of 200k horsemen (Joel 2:1-11) prepared to kill men (starting a year, day and hour before the last trumpet), 7th: the mystery of God as he declared to the prophets, is finished. And announces the arrival of Israel's Christ on earth.

Notes: The timeline for the end time is given by the following verses:

Church age: Now till the rapture. Rev 1:10, 4:1-2, Acts 1:6-8 (and possibly Ten days tribulation just before the rapture as referenced in Rev 2:10)

Tribulation (seals broken): Rapture till the desolation, 1290 days. Dan 8:13-14;12:11

Great tribulation: 35/45 days of intense killing after desolation and cleansing of the temple. Dan 12:12

Trumpets of Wrath: Desolation till Christ return 1260 days. Rev 11:1-3

Vial Judgments: When Christ returns, One day and an hour. Rev 18:8;10,17,19

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    • By Jordan Kurecki
      29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
      30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
      31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
       
      This is the most often used passage I see for people to try and prove that the rapture takes place after the 7 years of tribulation. However this is impossible and I will show how.
       
      Many people will say that vs 31 refers to the Rapture, I argue that God is gathering his elect Jews back into the land of Israel, for further study you can see this in mutiple places, especially the latter portions of the book of Ezekiel.
       
      But there is a more serious reason and problem with a Post Tribulation Rapture.
      Premise #1
      at the Rapture, believers are given new glorified bodies
       
      1 Th 4: 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
      17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
       
      1st Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
      53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
      54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
       
      Premise 2
      No lost person will enter into the 1,000 year reign of Christ at it's beginning
       
      Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
      33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
      34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
      35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
      36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
      37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
      38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
      39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
      40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
      41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
      42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
      43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
      44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
      45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
      46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
       
      Premise 3 
      Children will be born during the Millennial reign
      Ezekiel 47: 22 And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.
       
      Premise 4
      Glorified bodies do not reproduce children
      Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
       
      Conclusion
      If the Post Trib Rapture theory were correct, this would mean that at the end of the 7 year tribulation period when Christ returns, all of his Saints will receive glorified bodies because they claim this is also when the rapture takes place, after this the separation of the sheep and goats takes place all those who are lost and unbelievers in Christ will be cast away to hell at this time, That would leave us with not a single person left on earth in a natural body, and therefore it would be impossible for children to be born. the Post Tribulation Rapture theory makes children being born in the Millenial Kingdom an impossibility. 
       
    • By beameup
      Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Thess 2:1-12   Some things in this passage are a bit "cryptic" (difficult to understand). One example is "falling away" which is apostasia G646 How much "apostasy" was present at the writing of this epistle, which was his second epistle (53AD)?  (1 Thessalonians was his first epistle)
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