Jump to content
Online Baptist Community

The Four Returns of Christ.


John Young
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Members
On 9/20/2019 at 4:38 AM, John Young said:

Basic Revelation Outline:
The Four Returns of Christ.
1-4 For His Body (Rapture of the Church, 7 Candlesticks)
5-7 For His House (Cleansing the Temple, 7 Seals)
8-14 For His Nation (Saving Sealed Israel, 7 Trumpets)
15-22 For His Kingdom (Judging The World, 7 Vials)

Chronology of Revelation is progressive and accumulative in nature.

Fascinating outline although I'm not convinced the seven churches are seven "historical" churches. John was already "in the Spirit on the Lord's day" (Rev. 1:10) when he wrote to those churches and "the Lord's day" is not Sunday or the Sabbath it's "the day of the Lord". I believe those are "churches" during the Great Tribulation (Rev. 2:22) and would explain the "hour of temptation" that would try the whole earth (Rev. 3:10). These churches would not be part of the body of Christ (Acts 7:38).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
2 hours ago, SureWord said:

I'm not convinced the seven churches are seven "historical" churches. John was already "in the Spirit on the Lord's day" (Rev. 1:10) when he wrote to those churches

They are historical because he is writing the book to them after he had the vision and he was directed to give each a whole copy of the vision. Revelation 1:1-9 is the introduction to John's testimony of the vision. Just as John is real, so to are the churches to whom he was writing. The rest of us are simply invited to read, hear and keep the testimony. While they are the first recipients the rest of us are called upon to apply the revelation to our day and keep it for the next. Though its fulfilment is future, it had a present application for them then and for each of us who were to come after ("for the time is at [our] hand").

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. 4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia:

I John, who also am your brother, and companion
[present tense, they and he are physically, historically and literally present.] in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was [past tense] in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was [past tense] in the Spirit on the Lord’s day,

Edited by John Young
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

 

 

On 10/24/2020 at 10:39 PM, John Young said:

They are historical because he is writing the book to them after he had the vision and he was directed to give each a whole copy of the vision. Revelation 1:1-9 is the introduction to John's testimony of the vision. Just as John is real, so to are the churches to whom he was writing. The rest of us are simply invited to read, hear and keep the testimony. While they are the first recipients the rest of us are called upon to apply the revelation to our day and keep it for the next. Though its fulfilment is future, it had a present application for them then and for each of us who were to come after ("for the time is at [our] hand").

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. 4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia:

I John, who also am your brother, and companion
[present tense, they and he are physically, historically and literally present.] in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was [past tense] in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was [past tense] in the Spirit on the Lord’s day,

First off, I know John was a real person but there are doctrinal issues if you apply some of his words to believers in this age just like with the gospels. For example, nobody in the body of Christ will have their names blotted out of the book of life if they fail to overcome (Rev 3:5). We've overcame because Christ overcame. His letters to the seven churches are rife with Tribulational references. Even his opening in Rev. 1:7.

Secondly, yes John was a "companion in tribulation" on the Isle of Patmos because he received his revelation at this time and suffered along with them as they suffered 2,000 years into the future. He was "in the Spirit on the Lord's day" when the Revelation, including those words to the seven churches, were given to him.

David prophesied "my God, my God why has though forsaken me"  in the place of Christ 1,000 years before Christ was crucified. We now know it ultimately applied to Christ but at the time it could have applied to David himself. Just as the promise of Elijah could have been fulfilled in John the Baptist as our Lord attests to but will be fulfilled in Elijah. Scripture has dual applications.

The O.T. is jammed packed with verses that were speaking to a person, group of people, event, etc at that time but ultimately applied to a future person, people, event, etc. Many passages have dual fulfillments. One historically and one prophetically. As well as a devotional application. Why should we expect any different in the N.T. Just a clear reading of the four Gospels will reveal this. Paul's epistles are such also. Written to churches during his day but also to us 2,000 years later. Paul clearly was telling Christians in his day that the Rapture was near. Was he lying? No. Peter quotes a Second Coming passage to the Jews on Pentecost? Was he lying? No. Dual application.

The "seven churches" are also such. They could be to seven historical churches, and they can be preached on to local churches for spiritual and devotional applications but ultimately they are doctrinally aimed at churches during the Tribulation. Again, I'm not speaking of churches within the body of Christ.

"Out of Egypt have I called my son". Dual application there. Israel and Jesus Christ.

Finally, again we suffer along with the saints who've already run the race (Heb. 12) and Paul was with the Corinthians "in spirit" (I Cor. 5:3) so John could be with those people in spirit to still suffer along with them.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

So tonight during my bible reading I read Mark 13 and this further illuminates upon what I'm saying about the seven churches of Asia.

In Mark 13 after the apostles ask our Lord concerning the destruction of the temple, when it would occur and any sign concerning it, Jesus addressed the apostles like they themselves would be experiencing the events prior to his second advent (vs 10,14) but we know, short of them returning with Moses and Elijah, they would not be part of the Great Tribulation (though, it's possible they could have been if it occured in their day- vss 32-37). Our Lord also mentions that that generation would not pass until these things were fulfilled (vs 30) but they have been gone for nearly 2,000 years. Therefore the Lord was ultimately addressing a future group of people at that time. I believe this same principle applies to the seven churches of Revelation. That, along with doctrinal issues chiefly concerning soteriology during this Church Age, is the reason those "churches" being addressed must be churches (the elect of Mark 13:20-22) during the Great Tribulation. It possibly could have been fulfilled in those seven "historical" churches but never was just as Elijah could have been fulfilled in John the Baptist. The man of sin, the son of perdition, has been held back since those days.

I'd say right now we are entering the "morning" of the long night that our Lord mentions in Mark 13:35.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
On 9/20/2019 at 1:38 AM, John Young said:

Basic Revelation Outline:
The Four Returns of Christ.
1-4 For His Body (Rapture of the Church, 7 Candlesticks)
5-7 For His House (Cleansing the Temple, 7 Seals)
8-14 For His Nation (Saving Sealed Israel, 7 Trumpets)
15-22 For His Kingdom (Judging The World, 7 Vials)

Chronology of Revelation is progressive and accumulative in nature.

See only one for his second coming event itself!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 9 months later...
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

The Four Stage return of Christ - A Basic Revelation Outline, Part - 2 (See Part 1 and Book outline here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6s_Q...)

The Return for His house the Temple. And the restarting of Israelite prophesy.

Chapters 5-7 The Return for His House (Cleansing the Temple, 7 Seals) Time: Rapture til Midweek Chapter 5: Christ is found worthy to open the book and start Daniel’s 70th week (D.9). Chapter 6: Christ opens six seals, which initiates the first half of Daniel’s 70th week. Chapter 7: Christ re-initiates events of Ezekiel and Matt 23-24 leading to desolation of Anti-Christ Israel, The great tribulation, and the birth of righteous Israel.

     Christ, reunited with his Spiritual body, now claims his role as Head of Israel (5:5-6) and in order to restart Daniel’s 7th Week (Dan 9:24) as a judgment upon Israel (1 Peter 4:17, 1 Cor 11:31, Matt 23:29-39, Heb 10:5-10, Psalm 40:4-10, Acts 7:34-60) which had been indefinably delayed until the gospel was preached (Luke 16:16, Rom 11:11,25, Acts1:6-8, Matthew 24:14, Dan 12:8-13, Rev 10:1,5-7, Rom 8:21-23). The scroll is the delayed prophesy and seals are things needed to be put in place to initiate his coming judgment and to reclaim his earthly throne (The ark ), as shown in the visions of Ezekiel 7-11.

     This throne will be transported to Israel’s desolate house (the Temple in Israel), in which the Ani-Christ will attempt to claim by placing his image in it (2 Thess 2:1-12, Ez 8:1-4) midweek. This act cause God's glory to appear upon the throne, who then directs seven angels judge the wicked and seal the righteous in the temple and in Jerusalem (Ez 8:17-18, Ez 9). This event will anger the Anti-Christ who will then retaliate by initiating war against the saints who flee Jerusalem and enter the wilderness (Matthew 24:15-22, Rev 12:14). The anti-Christ will then initiate the “Great tribulation purge” by slaughtering any non-sealed but repentant people he can find and will reclaim the city (Psalm 79, Reva 6:9-11, 7:9-12) but not the temple or the inner court which will be divinely protected so that he two prophets God chooses can witness in the inner court before the temple doors to the world (Revelation 11:2-3, Zech 4:14, 9:8).

Of note is the contrast of Christ in Revelation 1 and in Revelation 5:
1. midst of the seven candlesticks vs in the midst of the throne, four beasts, and elders 2. like unto the Son of man vs a Lamb as it had been slain (Heb 9:26), Lion of Judah, Root of David 3. had in his right hand seven stars vs seven horns and seven eyes/ Spirits of God (Zech 3:8, 4:10) 4. have the keys of hell and of death vs prevailed to open book, and to loose the seven seals

Summery Notes: Scroll represents the prophetic events promised to Israel that have been sealed until the Great Commission is completed (Dan 12:9). Christ being the initiator and author of all prophetic events has chosen to stop and seal up Israeli (and by default the word's) end time events so that in the church age only our commission is known (Acts 1:6-8). Breaking the seals causes forces to go forth and initiate the events leading up to the abomination of desolation which will cause Israel and the world to be judged.

Seals: Horses: (1) War, (2) Famine, (3) Pestilence, (4) Death. (5) Prayer of Slaughtered saints, (6) earth quaking and heaven revealed and the abomination in the temple destroyed, (7) Silence in heaven for half an hour then incense representing prayer of the Saints is offered, just before trumpets sound.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

 

The Four Stage return of Christ - A Basic Revelation Outline, Part – 3

The return for Righteous Israel, Led by the two witnesses and 144,000 sealed and elect saints of God.

-Chapters 8-14 The return For His Nation (Saving Sealed Israel, 7 Trumpets) Time: Last half of the week

Chapter 8-9: Christ opens 7th seal initiating Prayer of Slaughtered Saints from 6:10-11, 7:13-15 and Psalm 79. and Six angels sound the coming Judgment of God.
Chapter 10: John is shown the Seven Thunders that will come just after the seventh angel sounds but before the vial judgments. They will reveal God's eternal plans.
Chapter 11: Two temple prophets described. Called away just before 7th angel sounds.
Chapter 12: New's Israel's Spiritual struggle with The Devil is shown.
Chapter 13: The earth's Struggle with the Beast and False Prophet is shown.
Chapter 14: Christ gathers Israel to Mt. ZION and gathers the World to be judged.

After the 144,000 flee Jerusalem and are safely out of anti-Christ/devil's reach (Rev 12:6,17) and with the two witnesses defending and proclaiming at the Jerusalem temple (Rev 11:2-3) they turn their focus on the world's remaining believers and attempts to slaughter them all in a world wide Great Tribulation Purge (Rev 6:11, 7:9-14, 13:5-8). Their arrival and prayers in heaven causes Christ to open the Seventh seal which initiates the 7 trumpets which sound the coming of Christ to earth to rescue Israel and judge Babylon for the slaughter. They are meant as clear and visible warnings for all to repent. (Rev 9:20-21)

During this end times slaughter the vail between heaven and earth is removed and can be seen by earth (Rev 6:12-17, Mat24:27). Heavenly destruction and signs are shown by the trumpets but the anti-Christ/ false Prophet manipulates many to follow them instead of repenting, by deceiving them in seeing heaven as the enemy of man and the signs as their own (Rev 13:5-7). This continues for 42 months/1260 days until the 7th trumpet sounds and Christ physically steps foot on Mt. of Olives (Zech 14:1-11, Acts 1:6-12) and Gathers his elect 144,000 to Mt. Zion from the wilderness (Rev 14:1, Mat 24:30-31).

In his arrival and just after the angels gather New Israel, he sends forth one last call to surviving nations to repent before reaping and poring out the vials of judgments on Babylon (Rev 14:6-12, Joel 2:30-32).

Trumpets: 1st: Hail and fire mingled with blood falls on earth, 2nd: As it were a great mountain burning with fire falls on earth, 3rd: A great star from heaven (wormwood) falls on earth, 4th: Third part of the sun, moon stars are smitten, and an angel giving warning of three more woes to come, 5th: A star falls from heaven (opening the pit releasing locust and the angel leader Abaddon to torment men for 5 months), 6th: Releases 4 angels from Euphrates which initiates an army of 200k horsemen (Joel 2:1-11) prepared to kill men (starting a year, day and hour before the last trumpet), 7th: the mystery of God as he declared to the prophets, is finished. And announces the arrival of Israel's Christ on earth.

Notes: The timeline for the end time is given by the following verses:

Church age: Now till the rapture. Rev 1:10, 4:1-2, Acts 1:6-8 (and possibly Ten days tribulation just before the rapture as referenced in Rev 2:10)

Tribulation (seals broken): Rapture till the desolation, 1290 days. Dan 8:13-14;12:11

Great tribulation: 35/45 days of intense killing after desolation and cleansing of the temple. Dan 12:12

Trumpets of Wrath: Desolation till Christ return 1260 days. Rev 11:1-3

Vial Judgments: When Christ returns, One day and an hour. Rev 18:8;10,17,19

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recent Achievements

  • Tell a friend

    Love Online Baptist Community? Tell a friend!
  • Members

    No members to show

  • Recent Status Updates

    • Eagle One

      Havent been on for years, but have been studying with Jews for Jesus weekly Bible Study which has been wonderful.  Not sure any of your views on that group, but if you are from a Jewish background a great place to be grounded in the word and to learn.
      · 0 replies
    • Barbara Ann

      I am a researcher and writer at Watch Unto Prayer which I started 25 years ago. On this website there are many well-documented articles and audio programs by myself and other researchers whose ministry is to expose the endtime apostasy of the Church. Now more than ever Christians need information in order to identify and avoid the various deceptions that are in nearly all the churches.
      My husband and I attended the IFB Bible Baptist Church of James Knox a couple of years ago. We left the church after we were informed by the assistant pastor that we were not allowed to express views to other members that do not agree with the views of the pastor and leaders of the church. We were not introducing heresy but expressing our views concerning the State of Israel. We had never been in a church which forbade private conversations on issues where there are diverse opinions. This we recognized as cultlike control of church members. To inform Christians, my husband, who is also a researcher and writer, started a website on the subject: Zionism Exposed: A Watchman Ministry.
      · 0 replies
    • Free Spirit

      Jesus said:"I am the truth, the way, and the life. No man can come to The Father, but by Me."
      · 0 replies
    • Richg  »  BrotherTony

      Brother Tony, I read your reply on Anderson, I know you all think I'm argumentative but, when you don't agree.....the first thought I had is, I wish you would introduce me to the guy that hasn't sinned, maybe David, that had a man killed so he could commit adultery, yet, he was & is a man after Gods own heart, or maybe Paul the guy that persecuted and had Christians killed, or maybe Richg or Kent H, or even you ! I used to listen to personalities also when I was younger but today and for some time, my only concern is, does it line up with scripture & to me its hilarious that you think "I'm in a fix" LOL, I interpreted what we've discussed perfectly, not because I'm smart, but because with an open mind to things of God, its an easy read.
      · 1 reply
    • Richg  »  Jerry

      I thought you wanted me to stop talking to you !
      · 0 replies
  • Topics

×
×
  • Create New...