Gud4U Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 Greetings, all, Hope you are all doing great and the Lord is smiling and offering you all His kind Grace and blessings. Studying the Good Book, questions rise after questions, i hope it's a good thing. Reading the Old testament, we come across the word 'Israel' when God tells Jacob: Quote Genesis 32: 28: And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. i believe this is the first mention of that name, and then it has been mentioned multiple times on and on, especially through the book of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Hoshua, Judges, Ruth, I Samuel, II Samuel, I Kings, II Kings, I Chronicles, II Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, a good number of Psalms, starting with Psalm 14 and ending with Psalm 149, Proverbs 1, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Micah, Nahum, Zephaniah, Zechariah, Malachi, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, I Corinthians, II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Phiippians, Hebrews, and finally in Revelation 21: 12. if i am not wrong, this word: 'Israel' has been mentioned about 2714 times! i understand that most of the time this word is refered to as the people, or the land, or children of Jacob and suchlike, but what about the first time it was mentioned? and what about the time when it is mentioned in the New Testament? For instance: Quote Glatians 6: 16: And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. Or better still: Quote Romans 11: 26: And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written . . . Surely here 'Israel' does not only refer to the Jews or the children of Jacob, and is different, or at least i humbly believe so, but being a nurd, i'd like to make sure. Thanks a lot for your time and kindness. Bless your hearts, Totoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry Posted April 20, 2019 Members Share Posted April 20, 2019 Romans 11:26 does refer to the Jews, the 12 tribes that are still alive and remain after a certain point in the tribulation period. The Lord is going to lead them in the wilderness and purge out the rebels. Those who are left - ie. all (remaining) Israel will be saved. No Nicolaitans 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members No Nicolaitans Posted April 20, 2019 Members Share Posted April 20, 2019 Hi! You've broached a very broad topic that isn't easily answered. As to your last question regarding Romans 11:26... My understanding; is that, in light of the book of Zechariah, it does indeed mean that all Israel (those Israelis) who survive until the end of the great tribulation period...shall be saved. Take care! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gud4U Posted April 20, 2019 Author Share Posted April 20, 2019 Thank you Jerry, and thank you No Nicolaitans for your kind replies. i humbly believe the Bible is by far more complicated than that. Of course, there is always a face value, but i am seeking the underlying meanings. Have a great time and bless your hearts. Totoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John Young Posted April 20, 2019 Members Share Posted April 20, 2019 (edited) Israel means "God's Prince" which meant that God gave him power and authority and protection, both in heaven and in Earth, to rule over God's nation of Covenanted people. When Jacob ruled in faith the Bible would call him Israel but when he was fearful or in doubt of God's promises and protection he would be called Jacob in the Bible. Many times His name would alternate from Jacob to Israel in joining chapters. The "Nation of Israel" is more properly called "the Children of Israel" and is in reference to all of those who exited Egypt with Moses (including the mixed multitude that did not come physically from Jacob) and partook of the Israelite Covenant at Mount Sinai. Often when God promises to do something for the the nation of Israel, even when they do not have faith in His promises, then He will refer to the nation as Jacob. The "Israel of God" is in reference to those in the covenant of Israel and are also believers in Christ. The "Israel of God" does not include all believers but only the believers who are also in the "covenant of Israel". Those who do not believe in Christ but were born in the covenant of Israel will be "cut off in Righteousness" when Christ returns to set up the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. I can give a verse study later that shows these things, when I have more time. Edited April 20, 2019 by John Young Gud4U 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gud4U Posted April 21, 2019 Author Share Posted April 21, 2019 Dear John, As always, many thanks and your kind reply is much appreciated. Makes much sense now, and you already replied my next question about the shift between Israel and Jacob, thanks for that, too. i eagerly await your follow up discussion, it is a tough topic to digest and i cannot have enough help, cheers and bless your heart. Totoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MJW Posted May 19, 2019 Members Share Posted May 19, 2019 (edited) My humble opinion... Israel ultimately represents the Glorified Body. More specifically, the Spiritual Genetics of the Glorified Body. I'm referring to verses like this... Romans 11:24 "For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?" The Saved are grafted in. Another way to look at it is that the Saved become Abraham's Seed... Galatians 3:29 "And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise" How is that possible? We must be Born Again. Edited May 19, 2019 by MJW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members robycop3 Posted July 20, 2019 Members Share Posted July 20, 2019 "Israel" refers to the 12 tribes descended from the patriarch Jacob whose name God changed to "Israel". These 12 tribes were one nation til God split them into Israel & Judah. When Scripture mentions "Jacob" or "Israel" after Jacob died, it's referring to the whole nation collectively. When Scripture says "Judah" or "Jew/Jews", it's referring only to the descendants of Judah, Benjamin, & Levi. Feel free to carefully check this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveW Posted July 20, 2019 Members Share Posted July 20, 2019 Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gud4U Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 Greetings, It is very confusing, the whole Bible is very confusing, but then what can one expect when the Book is authored by the Lord. Bless your hearts, Totoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry Posted July 21, 2019 Members Share Posted July 21, 2019 That doesn’t even make sense! God did not deliberately make His Word confusing - He wants His people to understand and obey Him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gud4U Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 Dear Jerry, i am very happy for you, you are one of the chosen, maybe i am not, many are called, few are chosen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry Posted July 21, 2019 Members Share Posted July 21, 2019 Yes, I am one of the chosen in Christ because I have trusted in His finished work upon the cross of Calvary. Have you? Maybe you haven’t and that is the reason you cannot understand any of the Bible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gud4U Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share Posted July 21, 2019 i am very happy for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry Posted July 21, 2019 Members Share Posted July 21, 2019 Thanks - but most or all here are very sad for you if you cannot say the same. You are either saved or lost, going to Heaven or to Hell, in Christ or damned for all eternity. Of course, a lost person can repent of their sins and trust the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation thereby changing their condition. Hopefully you have done so or will do so soon - asking endless questions won’t get you to Heaven - trusting in Jesus Christ alone to save you from your sins will. Gud4U 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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