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         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Saved before the Cross?????


DaveW
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
 

Luke 2:25-35 King James Version (KJV)

25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,

28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,

29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:

30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;

32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

 

Every single verse in this passage indicates that Simeon was already a child of God, looking FORWARD toward to Christ.

He was an "old testament saint".

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I preface my thoughts by saying that I believe that the Old Testament believer was just as saved as any saint in the New Testament. Their destiny was the same except that for one was the promise of the land for an eternal inheritance and the other is promised a mansion in heaven.

Saying that, however, I must also ask . . .

Could an Old Testament saint lose their salvation? Was there a belief in an unconditional eternal security before the cross? Did the Law have anything to do with salvation in the Old Testament? What would happen if a saved Old Testament saint decided to stop participating in the sacrifices and offerings?

<edited to remark: I'm not sure why the site merges separate posts . . . it was my intention that this be a prefatory post>

The Jews read and studied their Bibles from a child and no doubt memorized many, many passages, including Isaiah 53. Their teachers taught them that it refered to Israel as a nation, not to a suffering Saviour. If you ask a Rabbi today what Isaiah 53 means he will simply tell you that he is not trained in such knowledge. From what I understand of my Bible, when the Bereans heard Paul preach the same message that a Eunuch from Ethiopia heard they turned to their Bibles and compared Paul's words with Isaiah's and found themselves in agreement.

Paul, in I Corinthians 15:2-4 says that the Gospel is "according to the Scriptures," so without doubt the biblical method of salvation was there from Genesis 3:15 and all the way through -- but no one understood it.

Timothy also was taught from a child the Scriptures so that when he heard the application it became clear and he understood it. He had the wisdom, no doubt from Proverbs, and since Wisdom in Proverbs is the embodiment of Jesus Christ, he readily understood the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Of course, Jews were saved under the Old Testament economy . . . but New Testament eternal salvation with the sealing of the Holy Spirit of God? Nope.

Peter wrote:

"Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into" (I Peter 1:11-12 KJV).

The key phrase is "the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven," that is, the gospel was preached after the day of Pentecost. Prior to than, every time Isaiah 53 was read in the synagogue, the gospel was being preached as to the death of Christ, but who understood it? It was not mixed with faith in them that heard it.

For years, I believed that folks were saved in the Old Testament by looking forward to the cross, and in the New Testament by looking back at the cross. I had to reject that view, even though that was the view of my professors back at Bible College. Who in the Old Testament even understood what a cross was? Sure, they had Moses' serpent on a pole - but did they visualize the cross that Christ would die on?

Edited by Baptist_Bible_Believer
merging posts?
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

No. The sacrifices and observances of the law never saved anyone; it was always by grace through faith.

King James Bible  Par ▾ 

hebrews 10

 

1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

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1 hour ago, Baptist_Bible_Believer said:

Reminds me of being back in Bible college and our daily theological discussions in the coffee shop. Ah, those were the days! That was also where I learned that the college was crawling with Briders.

I'm not a Baptist brider but I am a New Jerusalem bride birther, by virtue of salvation, who happens to be a baptist in doctrine. :29_smirk:

Psalm 87:5-6 And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her. 6 The Lord shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there. Selah.

Revelation 19:7-8 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Revelation 21:9-14 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 and had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 on the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

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I had this one guy tell me that his grandmother never made it to heaven because even though she accepted the Lord as Saviour, she was never baptized in a baptist church that could not trace their rite of baptism in an unbroken line to John the Baptist. I called him a member of the Baptist Church of Christ, in Christian love, of course. He told me I wouldn't make it either.

Amen! We are the Bride of Christ and will be arrayed in fine linen, which is the righteousness of saints! But I'm no bride of some church.

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Men were saved by faith in the OT.

Galatians 3:6 KJV
[6] Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

Romans 4:1-5 KJV
[1] What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? [2] For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. [3] For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. [4] Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. [5] But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

the sacrifices and rituals of the law never endowed salvation or justification. Salvation has Always been by faith alone and always will be. 

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I do not dispute in any fashion that Abraham was saved by promise. I have used Romans chapter 4 many times while witnessing to people - especially to people that insist that one needs to do good works in order to go to heaven. However, by using Abraham, we are aware that he lived 400 years prior to the law even being given. Israel insisted that God give them that law because whatever He told them to do, they would do it.

"Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator" (Galatians 3:19 KJV).

The Law concludes man under sin. The sacrifices, indeed, do not saved . . . but they are a propitiation for sins--a covering--and as long as the sin was covered the Israelite was in the covenant.

Is that disputed? Is there eternal security in the Old Testament for the Israelite that refused to continue in the covenant relationship with God?

I am not saying that a person in the Old Testament could not be saved (if saved is the proper word here), but I am saying that there are some real distinctions dispensationally.

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"Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse; A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known. And it shall come to pass, when the LORD thy God hath brought thee in unto the land whither thou goest to possess it, that thou shalt put the blessing upon mount Gerizim, and the curse upon mount Ebal. Are they not on the other side Jordan, by the way where the sun goeth down, in the land of the Canaanites, which dwell in the champaign over against Gilgal, beside the plains of Moreh? For ye shall pass over Jordan to go in to possess the land which the LORD your God giveth you, and ye shall possess it, and dwell therein. And ye shall observe to do all the statutes and judgments which I set before you this day" (Deuteronomy 11:26-32 KJV).

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Exactly. However, for an even more in-depth description, I would point to chapters 28-30 of Deuteronomy...there's more, but those three chapters sum it up nicely.

Obedience to the law would bring physical blessings.

Disobedience to the law would bring physical curses.

Not once is salvation mentioned for obedience, and not once is being lost mentioned for disobedience.

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David seemed pretty sure......

2Sa 12:22-23
(22)  And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?
(23)  But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
 

I have never preached specifically about OT eternal security, other than to show from the Bible that salvation has always been the same.

If it has always been the same, then …… it has always been the same - eternal security included.

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Okay. Granted, OT eternal security is not a subject that would normally be preached in a New Testament Bible Believing Church.

I am simply trying to be an honest Bible believer. I see a distinction between OT and NT salvation. The sealing of the Spirit, in my understanding, is what guarantees the security of the believer. I'm not going to pursue the matter as I would never wish to cause dissension among the brethren. I hope that I have not been excluded from fellowship as an outsider.

Edited by Baptist_Bible_Believer
typo
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What about "OK David talks as though he is pretty certain"?

It has nothing to do with what is preached in any church - it has only to do with what the Bible says.

David's words are words of certainty - He says "I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me."

I will grant that the Bible doesn't actually say in this passage that he will go to him in Heaven, but the meaning is almost as certain as David's belief that they would be together again.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a result of the question I have started a quick study - I am by no means finished, but am already learning and enjoying it greatly.

I thought to myself "If David could speak with certainty in the passage above, then surely he would have spoken something of it in the Psalms.

So I started reading through Psalms with an eye to salvation specifically. 

It is important to understand that often the "salvation" that David speaks of in Psalms is physical salvation from attacking enemies, so we have to be careful to ensure we are talking about actual salvation, and not just the battles of this life.

But I couldn't wait to add a couple of these in even before I have come close to finishing this study.

And please read the passages fully, not just the portions I have quoted - context, context, context folks - don't just believe me.

Psa 17:15

(15)  As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.

Notice again the language of certainty - not maybe, but shall....

To me this sounds so much like:

1Jn 3:2

(2)  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

And it sounds like David was looking forwards to this:

1Co 15:51-52

(51)  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

(52)  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Praise God for this promise, that apparently David knew about also. 

 

Psa 20:1-9

(1)  To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The LORD hear thee in the day of trouble; the name of the God of Jacob defend thee;

(2)  Send thee help from the sanctuary, and strengthen thee out of Zion;

(3)  Remember all thy offerings, and accept thy burnt sacrifice; Selah.

(4)  Grant thee according to thine own heart, and fulfil all thy counsel.

(5)  We will rejoice in thy salvation, and in the name of our God we will set up our banners: the LORD fulfil all thy petitions.

(6)  Now know I that the LORD saveth his anointed; he will hear him from his holy heaven with the saving strength of his right hand.

(7)  Some trust in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.

(8)  They are brought down and fallen: but we are risen, and stand upright.

(9)  Save, LORD: let the king hear us when we call.

I know it doesn’t talk about eternal security as such, but it is a wonderful explanation of salvation by David.

 

I love the portion from vs 6 and 7

“Some trust in chariots, and some in horses”

“but we will remember the name of the Lord”

Sounds like salvation by grace through faith and not of works……

 

Psa 21:1-7

(1)  To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The king shall joy in thy strength, O LORD; and in thy salvation how greatly shall he rejoice!

(2)  Thou hast given him his heart's desire, and hast not withholden the request of his lips. Selah.

(3)  For thou preventest him with the blessings of goodness: thou settest a crown of pure gold on his head.

(4)  He asked life of thee, and thou gavest it him, even length of days for ever and ever.

(5)  His glory is great in thy salvation: honour and majesty hast thou laid upon him.

(6)  For thou hast made him most blessed for ever: thou hast made him exceeding glad with thy countenance.

(7)  For the king trusteth in the LORD, and through the mercy of the most High he shall not be moved.

 

 

Wow. Just WOW!!!!

The king shall rejoice in God’s salvation, and when HE ASKED LIFE OF GOD, GOD GAVE IT TO HIM, even length of days…… FOR EVER AND EVER!!!!!!!!!!!

Can I just say “Kapow!!!!!” that looks like smoke coming from that gun right there…..

And that is just a quick look through the first part of the book of Psalms, and that is without quoting the Psalms that I came across that imply eternal salvation without stating it plainly.

I could have probably taken a passage from about half of the first 20 Psalms that I think are hinting at it.

 

Thanks for the challenge - I will enjoy the continued study of this subject - probably won't hear much from me for a while now...….

 

 

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Excellent point, brother Scott. I suppose my main contention was the issue of the sealing of the Spirit. It is hard to use David as an isolated case because throughout his whole life he was endowed with the spirit. He even worried that he would lose the Spirit in Psalm 51. But at no point are we aware of Job having the Spirit of God upon him for service.

My essential struggle with the issue was in Paul's explanation of the Gospel in I Corinthians 15 where it is specific that it is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Yet, in Hebrews it does say that the Gospel was preached unto them as well as unto us. I'm sure that Isaiah 53 was part of that Gospel. Even Paul tells us that the Gospel he preached is "according to the Scriptures" -- so certainly the Gospel is in the Old Testament.

As mentioned above, I also believed that it is the earnest of the Spirit that assures our eternal salvation, and there is that verse that says "if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his," yet Peter certainly speaks of it: "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

(btw, I used to live in Waterford, Mi until last year). Do you know Bob Nogalski?

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13 hours ago, Baptist_Bible_Believer said:

I appreciate the clarification.

I must add, though, that in 42 years as an independent Baptist I have never heard a preacher say that Old Testament believers have eternal security. Any thoughts?

I was going to mention Job 19:27 but Pastor Markle beat me to it. Also take a look at Psalm 23 where David said "and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever". David, also, was "secure" in the knowledge of where he was going to spend eternity..

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    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 0 replies
    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 1 reply
    • Razor

      Psalms 139 Psalm 139:9-10
      9. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10. even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy righthand shall hold me. 
       
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West  »  Pastor Scott Markle

      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
      I really do not know where you are going with this. The Bible itself has revelations and prophecies and not all revelations are prophecies.
      Paul had things revealed to him that were hid and unknown that the Gentiles would be fellow heirs.
      How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:3-9
      And I do not mean this as a Hyper-dispensationalist would, for there were people in Christ before Paul (Rom. 16:7). This is not prophecy for there are none concerning the Church age in the O.T..
      Israel rejected the New Wine (Jesus Christ) and said the Old Wine (law) was better, had they tasted the New Wine there would be no church age or mystery as spoken above. to be revealed.
      It was a revealed mystery. Sure there are things concerning the Gentiles after the this age. And we can now see types in the Old Testament (Boaz and Ruth) concerning a Gentile bride, but this is hindsight.
      Peter could have had a ham sandwich in Acts 2, but he did not know it till later, by revelation. But this has nothing to do with 1John 2;23 and those 10 added words in italics. Where did they get them? Did the violate Pro. 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Where did they get this advance revelation? Was it from man, God or the devil?
        I just read your comment and you bypassed what I wrote concerning book arrangement, chapters being added and verse numberings and such. There is no scripture support for these either, should we reject these?
      Happy New Year
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West

      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
      SCRIPTURAL MARY

      I WALK NOT ON WATER NOR CHANGE IT TO WINE
      SO HEARKEN O’ SINNER TO THIS STORY OF MINE
      I, AM A DAUGHTER OF ABRAHAM SINNER BY BIRTH
      A HAND MAID OF LOW ESTATE USED HERE ON EARTH
      MY HAIR IS NOT GENTILE BLOND, I HAVE NOT EYES OF BLUE
      A MOTHER OF MANY CHILDREN A DAUGHTER OF A JEW
      FOR JOSEPH MY HUSBAND DID HONOUR OUR BED
      TO FATHER OUR CHILDREN WHO NOW ARE ALL DEAD
      BUT I SPEAK NOT OF THESE WHO I LOVED SO WELL
      BUT OF THE FIRST BORN WHICH SAVED ME FROM HELL
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               2
      WHEN I WAS A VIRGIN UNKNOWN BY MAN
      THE ANGEL OF GOD SPOKE OF GOD’S PLAN
      FOR I HAD BEEN CHOSEN A FAVOUR VESSEL OF CLAY
      TO BARE THE SON OF THE HIGHEST BY AN UNUSUAL WAY
      FOR THE SCRIPTURE FORETOLD OF WHAT WAS TO BE
      SO MY WOMB GOD FILLED WHEN HE OVER SHADOW ME
      BUT THE LAW OF MOSES DID DEMAND MY LIFE
      WOULD JOSEPH MY BETROTHED MAKE ME HIS WIFE
      I THOUGHT ON THESE THINGS WITH SO NEEDLESS FEARS
      BUT A DREAM HE RECEIVED ENDED ALL FEARS
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                              3
      THEN MY SOUL DID REJOICE IN GOD MY SAVIOR
      HE SCATTERED THE PROUD AND BLESS ME WITH FAVOR
      O’ THE RICH ARE EMPTY, THE HUNGRY HAVE GOOD THINGS
      FOR THE THRONE OF DAVID WOULD HAVE JESUS THE KING
      BUT BEFORE I DELIVERED THE MAN CHILD OF OLD
      CAESAR WITH TAXES DEMANDED OUR GOLD
      TO THE CITY OF DAVID JOSEPH AND I WENT
      ON A BEAST OF BURDEN OUR STRENGTH NEAR SPEND
      NO ROOM AT An INN, BUT A STABLE WAS FOUND
      WITH STRAW AND DUNG LAID ON THE GROUND
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
                                                  4
      MY MATRIX WAS OPEN IN A PLACE SO PROFANE
      FROM THE GLORY OF GLORIES TO A BEGGAR’S DOMAIN
      SO WE WRAPPED THE CHILD GIVEN TO THE HEATHEN A STRANGER
      NO REPUTATION IS SOUGHT TO BE BORN IN A MANGER
      HIS STAR WAS ABOVE US THE HOST OF HEAVEN DID SING
      FOR SHEPHERDS AND WISE MEN WORSHIP ONLY THE KING
      BUT HEROD THAT DEVIL SOUGHT FOR HIS SOUL
      AND MURDER RACHEL’S CHILDREN UNDER TWO YEARS OLD
      BUT JOSEPH MY HUSBAND WAS WARNED IN A DREAM
      SO WE FLED INTO EGYPT BECAUSE OF HIS SCHEME
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               5
      SO THE GIVER OF LIFE, THE ROCK OF ALL AGES
      GREW UP TO FULFILL THE HOLY PAGES
      HE PREACH WITH AUTHORITY LIKE NONE BEFORE
      PLEASE TRUST HIS WORDS AND NOT THE GREAT WHORE
      HER BLACK ROBE PRIEST FILL THEIR LIPS WITH MY NAME
      WITH BLASPHEMOUS PRAISE, DAMMATION AND SHAME
      THERE ARE NO NAIL PRINTS IN MY HANDS, MY BODY DID NOT ARISE
      NOR, AM A DEMON OF FATIMA FLOATING IN THE SKY
      THERE IS NO DEITY IN MY VEINS FOR ADAM CAME FROM SOD
      FOR I, AM, MOTHER OF THE SON OF MAN NOT THE MOTHER OF GOD
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
      6
      FOR MY SOUL WAS PURCHASED BY GOD UPON THE CROSS
      FOR MY SINS HE DID SUFFER AN UNMEASURABLE COST
      I WILL NOT STEAL HIS GLORY WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD
      ENDURING SPIT AND THORNS PLACED ON HIS HEAD
      YET, IF YOU WISH TO HONOR ME THEN GIVE ME NONE AT ALL
      BUT TRUST THE LAMB WHO STOOL IN PILATE’S HALL
      CALL NOT ON THIS REDEEMED WOMAN IN YOUR TIME OF FEAR
      FOR I WILL NOT GIVE ANSWER NEITHER WILL I HEAR
      AND WHEN THE BOOKS ARE OPEN AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE
      I AMEN YOUR DAMNATION THAT TRUST NOT HIM ALONE
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, O’ SINNER TRUST ME NOT

                       WRITTEN BY BRO. WEST
       
      · 0 replies
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