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Windsor Hills Youth Conference - Giving away an AR-15


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Guns are for putting food on the table so your family doesn't starve. In an emergency situation' date=' such as a riot or war, a gun is for protecting your family from beatings, rape and murder.[/quote']

A church youth conference is not the time nor the place to teach children about guns.
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Just wanted to add my :2cents . I think parents are the ones to decide how and when their kids are to learn to handle guns and rifles. My grandfather taught us, with the full knowledge and permission of our parents. I was 11 or 12, don't remember. He taught us gun safety and responsibility, too. We all have a healthy respect for firearms.

But...I personally don't think a youth conference is an appropriate place to give one away. Whether it's automatic, semi-auto, or a bb gun. A youth conference is supposed to be a time when the youth can get away and refresh themselves in the Lord; have good fun with other youth. But to lure kids to come with something like this - sure, my son would've loved to go to a conference if one was offered...but that shouldn't be any reason at all that a teen would go. To me it equates materialism with spirituality. A too common problem in today's churches as it is, let alone in a special conference designed for youth. JMO.

Edited to add - I am not against youth activities, as was asked of another poster. Nor am I against giveaways. Sometimes that can be good. But a giveaway of this kind sends the wrong message to our teens. When I was in college, one of my professors said he had never seen a truly spiritual teenager (and he had two of his own at the time!!! :sad BTW - I disagreed with him then and still do). That was (ahem :eek ) almost 30 years ago. With the materialism that has set into our churches so strongly, it's even worse now. And I do believe things like this (and cars at adult conferences, etc.) just add to the problem.

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[quote="HappyChristian"]Just wanted to add my :2cents . I think parents are the ones to decide how and when their kids are to learn to handle guns and rifles. My grandfather taught us, with the full knowledge and permission of our parents. I was 11 or 12, don't remember. He taught us gun safety and responsibility, too. We all have a healthy respect for firearms.

But...I personally don't think a youth conference is an appropriate place to give one away. Whether it's automatic, semi-auto, or a bb gun. A youth conference is supposed to be a time when the youth can get away and refresh themselves in the Lord; have good fun with other youth. But to lure kids to come with something like this - sure, my son would've loved to go to a conference if one was offered...but that shouldn't be any reason at all that a teen would go. To me it equates materialism with spirituality. A too common problem in today's churches as it is, let alone in a special conference designed for youth. JMO.[/quote]

That's why each church and youth conference should decide for themselves about this issue. It's not uncommon for such events to offer prices and other stuff to either get more people to come or to excite those coming. I don't believe the focus should be on the prize, whatever it may be, nor on the fun and games (though oftentimes it is).

If a church or youth conference wishes to have guns I believe that's their decision to make, and then it's up to the parents to decide if they want their children attending or not.

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John - I was editing my post as you were posting. :Green

To a point I agree with you. Each church must decide for themselves. That is autonomy. And as I said, I am not averse to prizes. But why a rifle? Why not a Bible? Not exciting enough, I guess. For the price of the rifle, they could have bought several really good study Bibles. But I guess that won't draw the teens in.

We have a youth conference (if you can call it that) each year in November. I may be mistaken, but I don't believe there are any prizes offered for attendance (I KNOW there isn't anything like the rifle!), but we have a bunch of kids every year. Why? There is a lot of fun, and there is a lot of Bible, all interwoven. My point is, there is no need to bribe teens to come. They come and they see that the Christian life is holy, and can be a lot of fun also.

I just think that it was a very unwise thing to do, and is typical of the groups that offer humongous prizes to get people to come.

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I'm in full agreement LuAnne, bribes of prizes or even of entertainment shouldn't be used in such matters. The youth think you described sounds great. Sadly, most youth camps and conferences put a lot of emphasis upon the entertainment factor, the fun and games, the prizes, rather than upon growth in the Lord and fellowship.

If these are Christians attending the conference it's probable they all have a Bible already. However, how many have an AR-15? :lol:

Yes, I understand what you are saying and I agree with the points you make. I'm not saying I would organize a youth conference with rifle giveaways but if others want to that's their decision to make. The parents can determine whether or not that's acceptable or not by whether they send their children or not.

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As was evident in my post that mentioned our school field trip totally centered around firearms, the experience and training as one of the activties @ a youth outing - I don't have a problem w/. As to giving a weapon (gun, knife, chucks, atc) away - I personally wouldn't place our church in the potential liability position it could create (same w/ a car, snowmobile, etc) due to how absurd the courts have gotten in these areas. In an activity you can maintain control in what happens, once you give it away you cannot and yet you are now the source. For us that is a moot point anyway because we give away Bibles, CDs, and books.

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I'm not against guns, I'm for guns.

But using guns to get kids in church. This is just another step into entertainment.


Jerry...I love it! :smile IFB's aren't concerned with "trends"...why should we worry now? I think our children should know how to use a firearm. It is long time past due...in fact! Virginia Tech is going through my mind. If the world won't do it...then, the IFB's should. :thumb Maybe more IFB parents will "wake" up?!

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As was evident in my post that mentioned our school field trip totally centered around firearms' date=' the experience and training as one of the activties @ a youth outing - I don't have a problem w/. As to giving a weapon (gun, knife, chucks, atc) away - I personally wouldn't place our church in the potential liability position it could create (same w/ a car, snowmobile, etc) due to how absurd the courts have gotten in these areas. In an activity you can maintain control in what happens, once you give it away you cannot and yet you are now the source. For us that is a moot point anyway because we give away Bibles, CDs, and books.[/quote']

OLD fashoined...You would be VERY surprised at what the courts CAN'T do.

candlelight
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I'm in full agreement LuAnne, bribes of prizes or even of entertainment shouldn't be used in such matters. The youth think you described sounds great. Sadly, most youth camps and conferences put a lot of emphasis upon the entertainment factor, the fun and games, the prizes, rather than upon growth in the Lord and fellowship.

If these are Christians attending the conference it's probable they all have a Bible already. However, how many have an AR-15? :lol:

Yes, I understand what you are saying and I agree with the points you make. I'm not saying I would organize a youth conference with rifle giveaways but if others want to that's their decision to make. The parents can determine whether or not that's acceptable or not by whether they send their children or not.


I humbly disagree. Our founding fathers are currently "rolling around in their graves" as some IFB's post. :puzzled: It isn't a secret what people say about Baptists and their guns. A gun...for self-defense, is EXTREMELY important! This thread is a CRYING shame. :sad

candlelight
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Jerry...I love it! :smile IFB's aren't concerned with "trends"...why should we worry now? I think our children should know how to use a firearm. It is long time past due...in fact! Virginia Tech is going through my mind. If the world won't do it...then, the IFB's should. :thumb Maybe more IFB parents will "wake" up?!

candlelight


candlelight - I just wanted to comment here...We are IFB, and we do believe in guns. My son actually shot his first bb rifle at age 4 - with great supervision and much teaching. He, however, did not get to keep that rifle in his possession until he was older! He knows how to shoot - classified as sharpshooter, one step under expert simply because his bolt jammed on some shots. Yes, children should learn how to use firearms, with all the safety issues taught as well. And when they are old enough to have one, fine. But not given to them at church. Sorry, but that just isn't what the church is for, IMO.

Autonomy gives the church the right to make that decision, but I would never want to be a member of a church that gave an AR-15 away at a youth conference that is supposed to be about drawing youth closer to the Lord. If someone has to be bribed to come to such, then that someone shouldn't come...

As was evident in my post that mentioned our school field trip totally centered around firearms' date=' the experience and training as one of the activties @ a youth outing - I don't have a problem w/. As to giving a weapon (gun, knife, chucks, atc) away - I personally wouldn't place our church in the potential liability position it could create (same w/ a car, snowmobile, etc) due to how absurd the courts have gotten in these areas. In an activity you can maintain control in what happens, once you give it away you cannot and yet you are now the source. For us that is a moot point anyway because we give away Bibles, CDs, and books.[/quote'] :thumb

candlelight - they aren't giving this AR-15 away for self-defense! They were giving it away to draw a crowd. Wrong motive for attending, wrong tool to motivate. As I mentioned earlier, I am all for guns and rifles. Learned to use them early, my big brother even earlier. Just not in a giveaway. It's too materialistic!
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brosmith...with all due respect, maybe you will change your mind on that, when their lives are threatened? IMO, kids should be trained with supervison...to defend themselves. Again, inviting the enemy right in the door. :sad

candlelight
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candlelight - I just wanted to comment here...We are IFB, and we do believe in guns. My son actually shot his first bb rifle at age 4 - with great supervision and much teaching. He, however, did not get to keep that rifle in his possession until he was older! He knows how to shoot - classified as sharpshooter, one step under expert simply because his bolt jammed on some shots. Yes, children should learn how to use firearms, with all the safety issues taught as well. And when they are old enough to have one, fine. But not given to them at church. Sorry, but that just isn't what the church is for, IMO.

Autonomy gives the church the right to make that decision, but I would never want to be a member of a church that gave an AR-15 away at a youth conference that is supposed to be about drawing youth closer to the Lord. If someone has to be bribed to come to such, then that someone shouldn't come...



Hi LuAnne! IFB's draw crowds for other reasons, don't they? What is "materialistic" about a gun. An AR-15 will send a message to the world! At this point in time...I feel that many IFB's are being "pansies". Or, maybe some of you need to visit me in Cleveland, OH? This "hits" a nerve...and, I am done discussing.

candlelight
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Sorry to hit a nerve, candlelight. The reason I say it is materialistic is because it is being used to lure teens to a supposedly spiritual conference. It is the parents' decision when and where their child(ren) are to learn about guns. Not the church. Sorry, but that falls outside their authority. Pansies? Because of disagreeing about giving away a rifle? That's kinda harsh, isn't it?

Yes, IFB's draw crowds. But what kind of crowd do they draw? A youth conference is supposed to be for saved youth who are seeking to draw closer to the Saviour. But with a giveaway like this, it's a guarantee that unsaved and backslidden kids will sign up. The church is doing it for numbers and numbers only.

Again, I am not against guns. People who know me and my family know that. My grandfather made guns and rifles, his own ammunition, etc. He had a really neat gun shop in his basement. We learned to shoot from him. My brother got his first rifle from him. Not the church.

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Sorry to hit a nerve, candlelight. The reason I say it is materialistic is because it is being used to lure teens to a supposedly spiritual conference. It is the parents' decision when and where their child(ren) are to learn about guns. Not the church. Sorry, but that falls outside their authority. Pansies? Because of disagreeing about giving away a rifle? That's kinda harsh, isn't it?

Yes, IFB's draw crowds. But what kind of crowd do they draw? A youth conference is supposed to be for saved youth who are seeking to draw closer to the Saviour. But with a giveaway like this, it's a guarantee that unsaved and backslidden kids will sign up. The church is doing it for numbers and numbers only.

Again, I am not against guns. People who know me and my family know that. My grandfather made guns and rifles, his own ammunition, etc. He had a really neat gun shop in his basement. We learned to shoot from him. My brother got his first rifle from him. Not the church.



LuAnne, the parents are "falling" short of their responsiblity. As I said, "You would be surprised at what the government CAN't do". I am tired of "so-called" Fundamentalists being afraid of the goverment. Were the Early Christians, afraid? NO!!

I don't care what kind of "crowds" they are drawing. People need to know how to use a firearm...and, teens are NO exception! BTW, people go to IFB churches, and have other motives for going at first. And, many get saved! Did you know that? Again, I live in Cleveland, OH!!!!

candlelight
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