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Sheep teaching sheep


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A few terms that I had not heard prior to attending an IFB church.   Undershepherd is one .  I had not heard a pastor referred to as an Under shepherd.  Or the term " Sheep cant teach sheep, or sheep cant shear sheep".   I hear these often.   Although I cant find a biblical reference or reason for these sayings.  Thoughts please. 

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4 hours ago, Thief on the Cross said:

A few terms that I had not heard prior to attending an IFB church.   Undershepherd is one .  I had not heard a pastor referred to as an Under shepherd.  Or the term " Sheep cant teach sheep, or sheep cant shear sheep".   I hear these often.   Although I cant find a biblical reference or reason for these sayings.  Thoughts please. 

6

Sheep can't teach sheep is simply not found anywhere in the Bible. 

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5 hours ago, Thief on the Cross said:

A few terms that I had not heard prior to attending an IFB church.   Undershepherd is one .  I had not heard a pastor referred to as an Under shepherd.  Or the term " Sheep cant teach sheep, or sheep cant shear sheep".   I hear these often.   Although I cant find a biblical reference or reason for these sayings.  Thoughts please. 

5 years as a Southern Baptist and 41 years as an Independent Baptist and I ain't NEVER heard such  ---------- and I glad I haven't.

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Thank you for your replys.  I do love my church and the pastor, but there are things that either dont sit well with me or are completely foreign.   I had zero boundaries or rules of any kind growing up.  So needless to say I balked against any authority in my life, nor did I have any standards or build character.   So for me I need to check,   and ask myself  is this the Word of God or is me , my flesh  pushing against this. .  I am not an authority on the bible,  so I appreciate all your help. 

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12 minutes ago, Thief on the Cross said:

Thank you for your replys.  I do love my church and the pastor, but there are things that either dont sit well with me or are completely foreign.   I had zero boundaries or rules of any kind growing up.  So needless to say I balked against any authority in my life, nor did I have any standards or build character.   So for me I need to check,   and ask myself  is this the Word of God or is me , my flesh  pushing against this. .  I am not an authority on the bible,  so I appreciate all your help. 

I wish to commend that spirit of meekness and submission.

Please understand that my posting above was NOT intended as a direct attack against your pastor.  I do not know him.  Thus I would NOT seek to engage in attack against him.  However, my posting above WAS intended as an attack against a particular doctrinal position that I believe is Biblically false.  From that I am NOT stepping back.

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2 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

I wish to commend that spirit of meekness and submission.

Please understand that my posting above was NOT intended as a direct attack against your pastor.  I do not know him.  Thus I would NOT seek to engage in attack against him.  However, my posting above WAS intended as an attack against a particular doctrinal position that I believe is Biblically false.  From that I am NOT stepping back.

Thank you , I did not see it as an attack,    I realize he is a man and may have some things he believes that may not be right.  As a married woman I also don't have the choice as to where I  attend church.  There are a few things I have found are off.   But I love them dearly.    Where do you draw the line and say thats enough? !   Of course again as woman I dont have that say.  I will pray about these things and hope the Lord will correct them.  

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Psalm 100:3 Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

John 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

If you ain't a "sheep", Jesus didn't give His life for you and you ain't one of "His people".

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On 10/1/2018 at 12:23 PM, Thief on the Cross said:

A few terms that I had not heard prior to attending an IFB church.   Undershepherd is one .  I had not heard a pastor referred to as an Under shepherd.  Or the term " Sheep cant teach sheep, or sheep cant shear sheep".   I hear these often.   Although I cant find a biblical reference or reason for these sayings.  Thoughts please. 

As Jesus Says:  My sheep KNOW My Voice,  and will not listen to another.

On 10/3/2018 at 11:28 AM, Thief on the Cross said:

Thank you , I did not see it as an attack,    I realize he is a man and may have some things he believes that may not be right.  As a married woman I also don't have the choice as to where I  attend church.  There are a few things I have found are off.   But I love them dearly.    Where do you draw the line and say thats enough? !   Of course again as woman I dont have that say.  I will pray about these things and hope the Lord will correct them.  

Again as written,   realize who it is who draws the line.  (not man) It is almost always if not always not where men draw any line.   (except as directed by the Creator) It is He Who Gives Perfect Instructions,  nothing missing,  nothing lacking, nothing broken, nothing wrong nor in error nor sinful.

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Yes, they absolutely know a shepherd's voice; I believe that. They can distinguish the sound of their mother's or lamb's bleating from a whole herd of others bleating as well. (I've seen that with my own eyes). My own sheep even know the sound of my truck motor when I am yet a mile from home.( a customer, waiting for me at my house told me that one) Likewise we, as "sheep", know the voice of our "Shepherd" through His word and His Spirit living within us.

The verses about us being "sheep" are metaphors so, of course, we are not literal sheep. The Bible calls us things like "sheep of His pasture" and God told Peter (one of those "sheep of His pasture") to "feed my sheep".  I take issue with none of that; it's Biblical. What I find UNbiblical is this thing about calling sheep the dumbest animals, and saying things like "God didn't do us any favors by comparing us to sheep".

The Bible says nowhere that sheep are the dumbest animals or even that they are "dumb"(stupid) at all. Preachers/teachers get this from hearing other preachers say it and nothing else: They certainly didn't get it from the Bible. What the Bible DOES say about sheep, is that they "go astray". Incidentally, one is "straying" from the Word of God when they teach stuff which they personally know nothing about and which isn't in the Bible.

 

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Haha,  I quickly smiled at this ..  thinking before reading further "all have strayed like sheep" ...

2 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

What I find UNbiblical is this thing about calling sheep the dumbest animals, and saying things like "God didn't do us any favors by comparing us to sheep".

then,  very wisely ?,  I read further ...

2 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

The Bible says nowhere that sheep are the dumbest animals or even that they are "dumb"(stupid) at all. Preachers/teachers get this from hearing other preachers say it and nothing else: They certainly didn't get it from the Bible. What the Bible DOES say about sheep, is that they "go astray".

...  thus,  "go astray" is not a measure of intelligence , smartness, or not being dumb .

fwiw  I read a commentary once decades ago,  (part of it, maybe just a paragraph actually),   that said Jesus said in the original that all people (or all mankind is) are stupid, blind and ______________________  ah, remembered,  naked.   Either that or something of the same effect - mankind is not of any value in the flesh, in fact is totally degenerate and opposed to God's Way(s).  (p.s. techonology is not a good think,  not from heaven,  not spiritual, but rather is of the flesh, and leads multitudes to "instead of" Jesus.) 

===============. just found additional thought from a shepherd/ his book ? 

I do not have enough experience with sheep to know, btw.  With people, yes - people are stupid.

Philip Keller, author of A Shepherd Looks at Psalm 23, tells us that the key to understanding a shepherd is to understand the nature of sheep. He writes in his book that sheep are "dependent, dumb, defenseless, directionless, and easily distracted."
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2 minutes ago, Martyr_4_FutureJoy said:

Haha,  I quickly smiled at this ..  thinking before reading further "all have strayed like sheep" ...

then,  very wisely ?,  I read further ...

...  thus,  "go astray" is not a measure of intelligence , smartness, or not being dumb .

fwiw  I read a commentary once decades ago,  (part of it, maybe just a paragraph actually),   that said Jesus said in the original that all people (or all mankind is) are stupid, blind and ______________________  ah, remembered,  naked.   Either that or something of the same effect - mankind is not of any value in the flesh, in fact is totally degenerate and opposed to God's Way(s).  (p.s. techonology is not a good think,  not from heaven,  not spiritual, but rather is of the flesh, and leads multitudes to "instead of" Jesus.) 

Yes, as far as intelligence goes, we are far inferior to God. I get that. But what is the purpose of teaching about the "dumbness" of sheep when that is not what is emphasized in the Bible? 

Some even take the sheep are dumb/you are sheep/I am the under-shepherd/I am God's anointed, stuff to such an extreme that they're leaning just the least little bit of starting to sound kind of "wolfy", and remember; sheep know the Shepherd's voice, and they "know not the voice of strangers" John 10:4,5

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Philip Keller, author of A Shepherd Looks at Psalm 23, tells us that the key to understanding a shepherd is to understand the nature of sheep. He writes in his book that sheep are "dependent, dumb, defenseless, directionless, and easily distracted."

 

I'm not too familiar with Philip Keller's book but, I disagree with these points; I will admit that sheep are not as intelligent as human beings but, on intelligence, I would place sheep on about the same level as cows. Cows aren't singled out for their stupidity are they? I have been around cows all of my life and have observed some which were pretty smart and others which were dumb as a sack full of rocks. Actually, I have observed some sheep which are apparently smarter than others too. See my illustration below. Now to most sheep, the closest distance between two points is a straight line a "fence" of any kind is no exception to that rule. But I've seen some sheep which, instead of standing at the fence bleating for their feed with no idea how to get there, look down at the GATE at the other end of the field and say to themselves "hmmmm, I'll just go around". I've known ALOT of people who seem to be like the ones standing at the fence and bleating.

SHEEP PASTURE EPIPHANY.JPG

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