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      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Anyone in your church not a Dispensationalist?


Brother D
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Just so long as everyone is aware of your nature and your false teaching.

But it is not hateful nor trolling to point out your constant falsehoods and misrepresentation of people, history, Bible, and facts, which is what I have done.

I don't mind if you don't reply - but I will not let falsehoods such as yours pass by - I will point them out wherever I see them.

 

To make it plain - when you lie, when you falsely represent someone's words, when you deliberately misuse the Bible, or when you present false histories, I will be there to point them out.

If you do none of these things, then I will have nothing to point out will I?

 

Have a nice day!

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

[1) You haven't explained why God told carnal Israel they aren't his people, if they are his people.]

 

Sir, did you even read my very first post in this thread? 

I did read your first post, you didn't explain why God told Israel they aren't his people, if they are his people.  You said, "The kingdom was divided at the time; in which, God said they weren't his people..."  You didn't offer any explanation for why God would say Israel are not his people, if they are his people.   I already know the circumstances of God's statement that Israel is not his people.  I know it was a divided kingdom.  I also know that "not my people" means "not my people."  

Sir, did you even read my response to you which (in turn) caused you to respond with this above; in which, I'm once again responding? Why respond if you're not actually going to read what is written and respond accordingly?

I answered your questions, but you are not answering my questions. 

I hate to say this, but you might want to check your reference(s) regarding what you claim that Revelation says about the Jews as the Synagogue of Satan...

You keep typing words, but you're not saying anything.  What about the Revelation reference about Jews as the Synagogue of Satan do you think I should check.  You should have said, "Those weren't Jews, they just claimed they were Jews" in which case I would point out that I put "Jews" in quotes in the first place.  I'd remind you that's the only use of the word "Jews" in Revelation.  And, then I'd make my case that anyone who calls themselves a Jew but is not a Christian is not a true Jew.  

Huh? Where did that come from? That's what I believe? LOL! I didn't know that I believed that...and I still don't know that I believe that. God's word is pretty clear on the matter of why Ishmael wasn't chosen. Just read that account, and you'll read what I believe about it.

LOL, indeed, you mockingly say you didn't know you believed something I said you believed then you immediately assert what I just said you believed.  But, this isn't about you, it's about Dispensational doctrine.  The simple logic that you refuse to process is Ishmael/Arabs are not God's chosen people, therefor being Abraham's seed doesn't make someone God's chosen people.   How does the reason Ishmael wasn't chosen make any difference to the simple logic I've shown you?   

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Brother D said:

The simple logic that you refuse to process is Ishmael/Arabs are not God's chosen people, therefor being Abraham's seed doesn't make someone God's chosen people.

Have you even read the Bible?

Because it is VERY CLEAR in the Bible that YOUR LOGIC - or is that deliberate lies about the issue - is addressed and refuted.

Oh I don't know, try Exodus, Deuteronomy, Matthew, Mark, Luke, Acts. These all have a phrase that Identifies "Israel" aside from all other sidelines lineages. Not to mention passages that describe the matter in Genesis and in Hebrews. Might even want to have an unbiased read of Romans to find out what it ACTUALLY says about Jews, the Nation, and people of faith.

I won't give you particular verses - it will do you good to actually read the Bible and find the phrasing. There should be more than enough clues in there for you to do a study that bears fruit.

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1 hour ago, Brother D said:

I did read your first post, you didn't explain why God told Israel they aren't his people, if they are his people.  You said, "The kingdom was divided at the time; in which, God said they weren't his people..."  You didn't offer any explanation for why God would say Israel are not his people, if they are his people.   I already know the circumstances of God's statement that Israel is not his people.  I know it was a divided kingdom.  I also know that "not my people" means "not my people."  

 

I did explain it; rather, I gave you the "tools" to read it for yourself. 

 

I answered your questions, but you are not answering my questions. 

 

I've answered what I believe needed to be answered. I don't debate...I'm not going to spend time going back and forth over and over. We both know neither of us will convince the other. That's why I point to scripture...in hope that you'll read what's referenced.

 

You keep typing words, but you're not saying anything.  What about the Revelation reference about Jews as the Synagogue of Satan do you think I should check.  You should have said, "Those weren't Jews, they just claimed they were Jews" in which case I would point out that I put "Jews" in quotes in the first place.  I'd remind you that's the only use of the word "Jews" in Revelation.  And, then I'd make my case that anyone who calls themselves a Jew but is not a Christian is not a true Jew.  

 

Interesting. You said Revelation refers to Jews as the Synagogue of Satan (when it actually doesn't). You even admit that it doesn't, but you still believe that it does? 

 

LOL, indeed, you mockingly say you didn't know you believed something I said you believed then you immediately assert what I just said you believed. 

 

Huh? See...this proves you're not really reading what I post. I didn't say that I believe what you said I believe. Also sir, I wasn't mocking you. I inserted the LOL, because I truly found it humorous...especially since I don't believe what you claim I believe...

 

But, this isn't about you, it's about Dispensational doctrine.  The simple logic that you refuse to process is Ishmael/Arabs are not God's chosen people, therefor being Abraham's seed doesn't make someone God's chosen people.   How does the reason Ishmael wasn't chosen make any difference to the simple logic I've shown you?   

Because your simple logic is destroyed by the plain wording of scripture.

I also notice that you neglected to say anything about my reference to Deuteronomy 10. That's okay.

 

 

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49 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

I did explain it; rather, I gave you the "tools" to read it for yourself. 

You didn't explain why God said Israel is not his people, if they are his people. You didn't give me tools to read it myself.  You gave my questions to avoid giving me an answer. The Bible says be ready to give an answer. The explanation, which is true, but you reject, is that being the natural seed of Abraham doesn't make someone's God's chosen people.

Every Christian should know that no one belongs to God apart from faith.  And, so, Israel, without faith, is not God's people.  And, everyone of faith is God's people and counts as the seed of Abraham.

Quote

 

Because your simple logic is destroyed by the plain wording of scripture.

I also notice that you neglected to say anything about my reference to Deuteronomy 10. That's okay.

 

The only difference between spamming verses that don't support you verses vaguely pointing to a chapter is at least you save some some bandwidth in your pretense of having a case.  

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Brother D said:

Every Christian should know that no one belongs to God apart from faith.  And, so, Israel, without faith, is not God's people.  And, everyone of faith is God's people and counts as the seed of Abraham.

Quote

 

Because your simple logic is destroyed by the plain wording of scripture.

I also notice that you neglected to say anything about my reference to Deuteronomy 10. That's okay.

 

The only difference between spamming verses that don't support you verses vaguely pointing to a chapter is at least you save some some bandwidth in your pretense of having a case.  

 

Hardly surprising that he hasn't read the chapter you suggested - why would he? He has already said that he has no time for people who quote lots of the Bible (in another thread).

He plainly has not bothered to look at any of the Bible books that I suggested, and it is quite plain that he has not read Hebrews or Romans.

Wouldn't want to do that - he might find out the truth about the nation of Israel.

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15 minutes ago, Brother D said:

You didn't explain why God said Israel is not his people, if they are his people. You didn't give me tools to read it myself.  You gave my questions to avoid giving me an answer. The Bible says be ready to give an answer. The explanation, which is true, but you reject, is that being the natural seed of Abraham doesn't make someone's God's chosen people.

Every Christian should know that no one belongs to God apart from faith.  And, so, Israel, without faith, is not God's people.  And, everyone of faith is God's people and counts as the seed of Abraham.

The only difference between spamming verses that don't support you verses vaguely pointing to a chapter is at least you save some some bandwidth in your pretense of having a case.  

 

 

Okay...my "questions" WERE answers to you. It just required for you to read God's word for yourself in order to get "the answers".

I did explain (in my first post) what you say I didn't explain. I gave why God said they weren't his people, and I showed that God still called them his people. I just didn't use my own words. I pointed you to scripture.

I never said that Christians aren't God's people apart from faith.

I point to chapters and/or verses in your case, because I hoped you would read them to find the answers...but it appears you only want my opinion. Sorry. If you want my opinion, read the references that I gave.

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4 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Okay...my "questions" WERE answers to you. It just required for you to read God's word for yourself in order to get "the answers".

Your questions are not an explanation of why God told Israel they are not his people.  Your questions don't lead to the answer you want.  And, I answered each of your questions.   The explanation of why God told Israel they are not his people is that they were not his people (and they weren't his people because they didn't have faith in God).  How many times are we going to go around with this?  

I never said that Christians aren't God's people apart from faith.

I said you, or rather Dispensationalists, say Jews are God's people apart from faith.  That is a contradiction of what the Bible teaches, cover to cover.

I point to chapters and/or verses in your case, because I hoped you would read them to find the answers

You did point to Hos 11:7, "And my people are bent to backsliding from me: though they called them to the most High, none at all would exalt him."  At best, you are arguing that there's a contradiction and using a vague verse to make you case, because God still tells Israel they are not his people.  I can't reason with you because you refuse to look at what the Bible says.  You just point to it from a distance and pretend your position has no problems.  The KJV says, "bent on backsliding".  Do you know the definition of "bent"?  How about "backsliding"?  That verse doesn't say they have in fact backslidden, and it certainly doesn't say they've lost faith in God.  So, there's no contradiction.  If they had lost faith in God, God would say they're not his people.  That verse itself tells us that there are people calling out to God.  If hey weren't calling out to God, they would not be God's people.  The faithless Jews are not God's people.  The faithful Christian, even those tending to backslide, are God's people.

 

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 Ex 3:7  And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; 
 Ex 3:10 Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt.
 Ex 5:1 And afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness. 

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You do actually realise that Hosea was commanded to make his life an illustration right?

And that although his wife was determined to go a whoring, he was to go and bring her back time after time after time. He WAS NOT TO FORSAKE HER.

So to try to use any part of Hosea to prove that God has forsaken what we today refer to as Israel is simply not in keeping with the ENTIRE BOOK. But you will try anyway, because you don't actually read the Bible apparently. You certainly don't believe it means what it says.

And let's look at the ACTUAL reference of NoNics to Hos 11:7

On ‎7‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 7:10 PM, No Nicolaitans said:

Why did God call them his people in chapter 11 verse 7...when he had said they weren't his people in chapter 1?

NoNics said PRECISELY why he pointed you to this verse - because in it God calls them "My People" - against your constant claims - which I notice Jim has also pointed out that you are WRONG again. 

 

What did you do with NoNics' reference to that verse?

49 minutes ago, Brother D said:

You did point to Hos 11:7, "And my people are bent to backsliding from me: though they called them to the most High, none at all would exalt him."  At best, you are arguing that there's a contradiction and using a vague verse to make you case, because God still tells Israel they are not his people.  I can't reason with you because you refuse to look at what the Bible says.  You just point to it from a distance and pretend your position has no problems.  The KJV says, "bent on backsliding".  Do you know the definition of "bent"?  How about "backsliding"?  That verse doesn't say they have in fact backslidden, and it certainly doesn't say they've lost faith in God.  So, there's no contradiction.  If they had lost faith in God, God would say they're not his people.  That verse itself tells us that there are people calling out to God.  If hey weren't calling out to God, they would not be God's people.  The faithless Jews are not God's people.  The faithful Christian, even those tending to backslide, are God's people.

No surprise here, but you once again MISREPRESENT a member here for the purpose trying to make him seem foolish.

You only succeed in making yourself look like a deliberate deceiver.

 

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On 7/7/2018 at 2:32 AM, Brother D said:

If your church were around 100 years ago, no one in it would have been a Dispensationalist.  

1918?

Tough one that.  About 1900 it was maily confined to Brethren, The Catholic Apostotic Church, Prebyterians, and Assemblies of God according to my research.  It came to Baptists after the Scofield Bible was give free to their colleges.

I don't disagree that the ECF were millenialist, except for Jerome, but that doesn't make them dispensationits, Elliott and Grattan Guinness also were but they were far from it, neither does someone who mentions dispensations,  Elliott and Grattan Guinness also did.  Neither does believing thet the Jews are God's chosen peaople, Elliott and Grattan Guinness also did, so do I. Christians are also god's chosen people as Peter said we are a chosen generation. 

  • Eph 1:4  According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5  Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
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14 hours ago, Brother D said:

Your questions are not an explanation of why God told Israel they are not his people.  Your questions don't lead to the answer you want. 

 

Sir, I gave a "spoiler alert" in my first post in this thread.

 

And, I answered each of your questions.   The explanation of why God told Israel they are not his people is that they were not his people (and they weren't his people because they didn't have faith in God).

 

Again, I gave a "spoiler alert". That's where the answer is found. You may want to read it and see how it lines up with the explanation you've given.

 

 How many times are we going to go around with this?  

 

Unfortunately, it looks like too many times? 

 

I said you, or rather Dispensationalists, say Jews are God's people apart from faith.  That is a contradiction of what the Bible teaches, cover to cover.

 

Still haven't read Deuteronomy 10?

Since your concern is that I'm too vague in my references, and to help you further, I'll narrow it down a little more...Deuteronomy 10:15. Where is their faith shown there when God said he chose them? 

 

Quote

 

 

You did point to Hos 11:7, "And my people are bent to backsliding from me: though they called them to the most High, none at all would exalt him."  At best, you are arguing that there's a contradiction and using a vague verse to make you case, because God still tells Israel they are not his people. 

 

Huh? When did I even hint at a contradiction? I didn't, did I? There is no contradiction, but just as you falsely claim to know what I "believe" about Ishmael, you now falsely claim to know my reasoning? This seems to be a serious problem with you...to assert such nonsense about others which causes others to have to waste time defending themselves from your diabolical assertions about them. Say what you want about me...I'll not play your game any longer. Sorry. ATTENTION ONLINE BAPTIST MEMBERS AND NON-MEMBERS: if BrotherD ever again makes any type of claim regarding my beliefs, and if I don't defend myself against such claims, let it be known that he is wrong about me, and my silence regarding such claims is my acknowledgement that he is lying about me.

 

I can't reason with you because you refuse to look at what the Bible says.  You just point to it from a distance and pretend your position has no problems.  The KJV says, "bent on backsliding".  Do you know the definition of "bent"?  How about "backsliding"?

 

Seriously? Man, please.

 

That verse doesn't say they have in fact backslidden, and it certainly doesn't say they've lost faith in God.  So, there's no contradiction.

 

Hey! We actually agree that there's no contradiction! 

 

If they had lost faith in God, God would say they're not his people.  That verse itself tells us that there are people calling out to God.  If hey weren't calling out to God, they would not be God's people. 

 

No...read the spoiler alert...

 

The faithless Jews are not God's people. 

 

Might want to go back and read the covenant that God made...THAT GOD MADE.

 

The faithful Christian, even those tending to backslide, are God's people.

 

I agree...maybe. It depends upon YOUR definition of "backslide". Can you show me in God's word where it expressly says that new testament Christians "backslide", or are you using old testament verbage and applying it to the new testament? To borrow a cue from you, do you know what backsliding means? 

 

 

Edited by No Nicolaitans
wrote BrotherD's name wrong
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Brother D, 

To further clarify myself, and I know that others here may not agree with me on this...which may cause some raised eyebrows when they read this, but I DO NOT believe that the Hosea reference found in Romans 9 is meant to be interpreted as Christians being God's people. It's talking about the people to whom it was said about in Hosea...Israel. The context of who he is talking about is clear to me.

Now...why is Israel still called "his people" in Romans 11:1-2? This is after Christ had died, was buried, and risen from the dead. This was after Christianity had started, yet Israel is still called "his people".

Speaking of Romans 11, you may want to read the entire chapter when you look those verses up, because there seems to be a lot of "boasting against the branches" coming from you. Take heed...

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On 7/14/2018 at 10:50 AM, Jim_Alaska said:

 Ex 3:7  And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; 
 Ex 3:10 Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt.
 Ex 5:1 And afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness. 

Jim, are you trying to be the poster child for people who spam verses without any clue what those verses say?  You didn't even bother to type a single word of your own.

Those verses don't say God-haters and Antichrists are God's people, all because of what you pretend is their ancestry.  Just you and other Dispensationalists say that.   Sadly, you quote Ex 3:7 and 3:10, but not the verses in between which tells who "my people" are.   From Exodus 3:9, "the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me."   Do you get that?   They are calling to God!  They have faith in God and that is why they are God's people.

Also, another fact you Dispesnationalists are in hard denial of is that nothing in the Bible says all those Isrealites in Egypt are descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.     Exodus 12:38 describes those people as a "mixed multitude" and Exodus 12:48 explains that converts count as native Israelites.  

 

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16 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Still haven't read Deuteronomy 10?

Since your concern is that I'm too vague in my references, and to help you further, I'll narrow it down a little more...Deuteronomy 10:15. Where is their faith shown there when God said he chose them? 

Both Old and New Testaments teach over and over and over that only those with Faith in God count as the seed of Abraham.   Does Ishmael ring a bell?  When you read the Bible, to you remember Paul saying Christians count as the seed of Abraham. 

Quote

 

Quote

I agree...maybe. It depends upon YOUR definition of "backslide". Can you show me in God's word where it expressly says that new testament Christians "backslide", or are you using old testament verbage and applying it to the new testament? To borrow a cue from you, do you know what backsliding means?

 "Backslide" means returning to bad behavior.  It doesn't mean rejecting God.  A backslid Christian still calls Jesus lord and savior, but has returned to some of his pre-Christian behavior.  It's not just my definition. The verse in question (Hos 11:7) tells us the people still acknowledge God, and therefor were God's people by faith.   And, whatever, God still said plainly and directly that Israel is not his people, as the Israelis did not acknowledged God.
 

Quote

 

I DO NOT believe that the Hosea reference found in Romans 9 is meant to be interpreted as Christians being God's people. It's talking about the people to whom it was said about in Hosea...Israel. The context of who he is talking about is clear to me.

Now...why is Israel still called "his people" in Romans 11:1-2? This is after Christ had died, was buried, and risen from the dead. This was after Christianity had started, yet Israel is still called "his people".

Speaking of Romans 11, you may want to read the entire chapter when you look those verses up, because there seems to be a lot of "boasting against the branches" coming from you. Take heed...

 

How is the Romans 9 Hosea reference not talking about gentiles?  "But also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people...

God does not call carnal Israel his people in Romans 11:1-2.  Paul gives his pedigree, but that doesn't make Paul's race God's people.  Out of context, I can see how you might think otherwise, but Paul isn't giving his pedigree to define God's people.  Paul gives his pedigree to appeal to racist bigots, similar to those Jesus dealt with in John 8.   If Paul meant his race, that would contradict the rest of the Bible.  If Paul meant his race, that would contradict what Paul  goes on to say in Romans 11:  Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.  Got that?  Of Paul's race, just a remnant are God's people, which is a contradiction of your doctrine.  There were also many Jews/Isrealites who were not of Paul's race,  and the faithful of those were God's people.  BTW, also notice that Paul is speaking specifically at his time.  After ca 70 AD, there no longer remained that remnant- they would have all died off or accepted Christ.

Boasting against the branches?  Which branches?  The ones cut off?  Your doctrine denies that they've been cut off.  

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33 minutes ago, Brother D said:

Jim, are you trying to be the poster child for people who spam verses without any clue what those verses say?  You didn't even bother to type a single word of your own.

 

You do know that Jim is a moderator? 

 

Also, another fact you Dispesnationalists are in hard denial of is that nothing in the Bible says all those Isrealites in Egypt are descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.     Exodus 12:38 describes those people as a "mixed multitude" and Exodus 12:48 explains that converts count as native Israelites.  

My word man...no 12:38 does not. A mixed multitude went up ALSO with THEM (Israel). You might want to look at Numbers 11 for a quick reference of another differentiation between the mixed multitude and Israel...oh sorry...Numbers 11:4 since you want my references to be more precise...

33 minutes ago, Brother D said:
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7 minutes ago, Brother D said:

How is the Romans 9 Hosea reference not talking about gentiles?  "But also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people..."

Why do you only quote partials of verses? Let's look at all of it...please note that verses 22-24 is one sentence.

22  What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

 23  And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

 24  Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 25  As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 

 26  And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. 

 27  Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

 28  For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. 

 29  And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

In verse 26, please tell me according to the context...

1. Where was "the place"?

2. Who were the "them"?

3. Who were the "Ye"?

4. Who were the "they"?

Then look at verse 27, and you'll see that Isaiah ALSO cried concerning who? That little word "also" continues a thought. Who is the thought about? ISRAEL.

24 minutes ago, Brother D said:

"Backslide" means returning to bad behavior.  It doesn't mean rejecting God

Hmmm...might want to reconsider the true meaning...

Original: משׁבה משׁוּבה

Transliteration: meshûbâh meshûbâh

Phonetic: mesh-oo-baw'

Definition:

turning away, turning back, apostasy, backsliding

Origin: from H7725

Part(s) of speech: Noun Feminine

Strong's Definition: FromH7725; apostasy: -backsliding, turning away.

Backsliding is an old testament word only, and it means much more than your definition...or the commonly accepted definition. What does the new testament say about those who "turn away"? That's your new testament "backslider"...

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4 hours ago, Brother D said:

Jim, are you trying to be the poster child for people who spam verses without any clue what those verses say?  You didn't even bother to type a single word of your own.

I have to point out this statement has been made on a CHRISTIAN BIBLE BELIEVING FORUM.

To criticize someone for using Bible verses on a Bible forum is EXACTLY why this guy is to be avoided.

In a discussion about Bible passages he puts down those who use the Bible......

Unbelievable...

Or it would be if it were not for the fact that he has constantly rewritten the Bible for his own means.

Jim's verses that this "Brother D" is critical of are entirely relevant to the discussion.

Further, as NoNics has pointed out on the RARE occasion that this false teacher quotes ANY Bible, he quotes only partial verses evidently to remove them from their context.

1 Cor 2

13  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

And;

Heb 4:12

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

Edited by DaveW
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6 hours ago, Brother D said:

Jim, are you trying to be the poster child for people who spam verses without any clue what those verses say?  You didn't even bother to type a single word of your own.

FYI what I posted is not SPAM, Incidentally SPAM is spelled with all caps. Definition of SPAM: "irrelevant or inappropriate messages sent on the Internet to a large number of recipients."

God doesn't need me to insert words of my own when what He says is sufficient and the context plainly defines who His people are. I'll stick with what the Bible says, rather than what you and your intentional, misleading ideas tout.

Those verses don't say God-haters and Antichrists are God's people, all because of what you pretend is their ancestry.  Just you and other Dispensationalists say that.   Sadly, you quote Ex 3:7 and 3:10, but not the verses in between which tells who "my people" are.   From Exodus 3:9, "the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me."   Do you get that?   They are calling to God!  They have faith in God and that is why they are God's people.

Even kids in our Sunday School classes know who "the children of Israel" are, and that they are His people. Yes, they are calling to God, I really do get that. But you refuse to acknowledge that it is National Israel that is doing the calling; otherwise known as "The children of Israel".

 

 

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4 hours ago, Brother D said:

 

Yes, I quoted you without quoting you...just so you'd notice it.

You still haven't read Deuteronomy 10, have you? Or...you've read it, and you haven't yet found a way to "wrest the scripture". 

I learned long ago to show grace when it's due. I started off with grace with you...but I was quickly shown that with you sir, it's not due. You have been given more than the biblical two admonitions (no, I won't give you chapter and verse...look it up for yourself). As far as I'm concerned, and I'm sad to say it, you are a heretic. So go ahead and tell others (within your belief system) how "No Nicolaitans" treated you wrongly and can't discern scripture aright. Give them the link here so they can see it. One day, we will BOTH have to give an account for what we've done and said here. I've taken God at his word without redefining what he plainly said or jumping through hoops to "explain" what he meant when he supposedly didn't say what he meant. Have you? Go ahead and boast against the branches if you dare...I'll rest in the truth of God's word...which will stand forever...

If you ever reach the place; in which, you realize that you could be wrong, I will gladly and lovingly try to help you. I hope and pray that you will.

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