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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Publisher Whitaker House KJV Sword Study bible is NOT a true KJV


jdosher
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First off, I like this Sword bible for its Red Letter of the OT and the NT.  However, it has errors, or should I say, changes to GOD's Word.

 

Publisher Whitaker House KJV (fake version) bible errors. 

  1. This is not a true King James Bible.

  2. The word changes  are very subtle, but these changes effect the verse meaning drastically, taking away from the Word of GOD.

  3. Below are some samples.

    Book & Chapter

    KJB / Fake KJV

    King James Bible (KJB) 1611

    Fake KJV (version)

    Very FIRST PAGE of this bible titled:

     This Holy Bible is presented to…

    Has at the bottom of the page;

    2nd Timothy 2:15

    2nd Timothy 2:15

    Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    2nd Timothy 2:15

    Study to show yourself approved to God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Genesis 4:11

    her / his

    11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand;

    11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened his mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand;

    Genesis 4:12

    her / his

    12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive  and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

    12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee his strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

    Genesis 18:4

    fetched / brought

    4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:

    4 Let a little water, I pray you, be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:

    Genesis 18:5

    fetch / bring

    5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

    5 And I will bring a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

    fetch / bring

     

    Fetch is replaced with bring throughout the bible.

    Genesis 39:20

    place / palce

    20 And Joseph’s master took him, and put him into the prison, a place where the king’s prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison.

    20 And Joseph’s master took him, and put him into the prison, a palce where the king’s prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison.

    Exodus 24:2

    near / near

    nigh / near

    KJB has both near and nigh in the same verse.  Do they have a different meaning?

    2 And Moses alone shall come near the LORD: but they shall not come nigh; neither shall the people go up with him.

     

     

    NEAR – unto? / close to? / next to?

    NIGH – towards? / approach? / advance?

    2 And Moses alone shall come near the LORD: but they shall not come near; neither shall the people go up with him.

     

     

     

    nigh / near

     

    Nigh is replaced with near throughout the bible.

    Matthew 2:11

    and / --- (missing)

     11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

    11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold,  --- frankincense, and myrrh.

    Matthew 24:32

    his / its

    nigh / near

    32  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye  know that summer is nigh:

    32  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When its branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:

    Matthew 26:52

    his / its

    52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

    52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into its place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

    Luke 6:44

    his / its

    44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

    44 For every tree is known by its own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

    Luke 17:2

    he / be

    2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

    2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and be cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

    Luke 24:53

    amen /--- (missing)

    53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God.  Amen.

    53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God.  ---

    twain / two

    betwixt / between

    to wit / “to know” or “that is”

    And many other poetic words; too many to list.

    Used for meaning and poetry.

    Replaced throughout the bible

Edited by jdosher
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Is it possibly a kjv2000?

They tried to do what the NKJV was supposed to - update archaic words.

Not a fan by the way.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
6 hours ago, jdosher said:

 

First off, I like this Sword bible for its Red Letter of the OT and the NT.  However, it has errors, or should I say, changes to GOD's Word.

 

Publisher Whitaker House KJV (fake version) bible errors. 

  1. This is not a true King James Bible.

  2. The word changes  are very subtle, but these changes effect the verse meaning drastically, taking away from the Word of GOD.

  3. Below are some samples.

    Book & Chapter

    KJB / Fake KJV

    King James Bible (KJB) 1611

    Fake KJV (version)

    Very FIRST PAGE of this bible titled:

     This Holy Bible is presented to…

    Has at the bottom of the page;

    2nd Timothy 2:15

    2nd Timothy 2:15

    Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    2nd Timothy 2:15

    Study to show yourself approved to God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Genesis 4:11

    her / his

    11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand;

    11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened his mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand;

    Genesis 4:12

    her / his

    12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive  and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

    12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee his strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

    Genesis 18:4

    fetched / brought

    4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:

    4 Let a little water, I pray you, be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:

    Genesis 18:5

    fetch / bring

    5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

    5 And I will bring a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

    fetch / bring

     

    Fetch is replaced with bring throughout the bible.

    Genesis 39:20

    place / palce

    20 And Joseph’s master took him, and put him into the prison, a place where the king’s prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison.

    20 And Joseph’s master took him, and put him into the prison, a palce where the king’s prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison.

    Exodus 24:2

    near / near

    nigh / near

    KJB has both near and nigh in the same verse.  Do they have a different meaning?

    2 And Moses alone shall come near the LORD: but they shall not come nigh; neither shall the people go up with him.

     

     

    NEAR – unto? / close to? / next to?

    NIGH – towards? / approach? / advance?

    2 And Moses alone shall come near the LORD: but they shall not come near; neither shall the people go up with him.

     

     

     

    nigh / near

     

    Nigh is replaced with near throughout the bible.

    Matthew 2:11

    and / --- (missing)

     11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

    11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold,  --- frankincense, and myrrh.

    Matthew 24:32

    his / its

    nigh / near

    32  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye  know that summer is nigh:

    32  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When its branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:

    Matthew 26:52

    his / its

    52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

    52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into its place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

    Luke 6:44

    his / its

    44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

    44 For every tree is known by its own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

    Luke 17:2

    he / be

    2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

    2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and be cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

    Luke 24:53

    amen /--- (missing)

    53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God.  Amen.

    53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God.  ---

    twain / two

    betwixt / between

    to wit / “to know” or “that is”

    And many other poetic words; too many to list.

    Used for meaning and poetry.

    Replaced throughout the bible

While there are clearly some differences that change meaning, shew and show are the same exact word, just different spellings, Shew is British spelling and show is American, also needs and needeth are the same thing. The morpheme -eth is archaic and has been replaced in today’s English with the morpheme -s.

there is also no difference in meaning betwixt the word between and betwixt. 

Same for “wit” and “know” they both mean the same thing as well.

Same for “nigh” and “near” both mean the same thing.

I lament the fact how people do not understand the English language the way they think they do. There are plenty of real changes to point out that exist between the KJV and other versions. But modern equivalent of archaic words are not changes in meaning, nor are spelling changes either..On that note, have you ever seen a 1611 KJV? Son was spelled Sonne. Does the version you use have Son or Sonne? 

I am a through and through KJV bible believer and defender, but can we please stop making issues out of non issues?

Edited by Jordan Kurecki
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On 5/28/2018 at 3:21 AM, Jordan Kurecki said:

While there are clearly some differences that change meaning, shew and show are the same exact word, just different spellings, Shew is British spelling and show is American, also needs and needeth are the same thing. The morpheme -eth is archaic and has been replaced in today’s English with the morpheme -s.

Show is also an English word.  Shew is archaic,  When I was young railway stations used to have a sign "ALL TICKETS MUST BE SHEWN."   Even at that time  it was archaic as we usually used Show,  I could not understand what shewn meant.

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  • 10 months later...
  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I do not endorse changes in meaning, but changes that correct typos or update spelling are not demonic. The Bible was not written originally in English - but in Hebrew/Aramaic and Greek, then translated into English (and many other languages). If the English translation is faithful, but uses a different English word meaning the exact same thing, then it is not evil or a counterfeit. There were several English translations before the King James Bible was translated.

Of course, I firmly believe the King James Bible is God’s Word to the English-speaking world. I do not believe we will see another one translated on the same scope and with the same accuracy - all modern attempts at updating the language of the KJB have failed, as far as I have seen so far.

If someone wants to expose a modern English translation or updating of the KJB as a counterfeit, then focus on the passages that change the meaning of the text, not that update spelling or use a different word meaning the exact same thing. That type of argument is a red herring or a silly goose chase, leading nowhere of value.

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  • 5 months later...
  • Members
On 5/27/2018 at 3:14 PM, jdosher said:

 

First off, I like this Sword bible for its Red Letter of the OT and the NT.  However, it has errors, or should I say, changes to GOD's Word.

 

Publisher Whitaker House KJV (fake version) bible errors. 

  1. This is not a true King James Bible.

  2. The word changes  are very subtle, but these changes effect the verse meaning drastically, taking away from the Word of GOD.

  3. Below are some samples.

    Book & Chapter

    KJB / Fake KJV

    King James Bible (KJB) 1611

    Fake KJV (version)

    Very FIRST PAGE of this bible titled:

     This Holy Bible is presented to…

    Has at the bottom of the page;

    2nd Timothy 2:15

    2nd Timothy 2:15

    Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    2nd Timothy 2:15

    Study to show yourself approved to God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Genesis 4:11

    her / his

    11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand;

    11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened his mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand;

    Genesis 4:12

    her / his

    12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive  and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

    12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee his strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

    Genesis 18:4

    fetched / brought

    4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:

    4 Let a little water, I pray you, be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:

    Genesis 18:5

    fetch / bring

    5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

    5 And I will bring a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

    fetch / bring

     

    Fetch is replaced with bring throughout the bible.

    Genesis 39:20

    place / palce

    20 And Joseph’s master took him, and put him into the prison, a place where the king’s prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison.

    20 And Joseph’s master took him, and put him into the prison, a palce where the king’s prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison.

    Exodus 24:2

    near / near

    nigh / near

    KJB has both near and nigh in the same verse.  Do they have a different meaning?

    2 And Moses alone shall come near the LORD: but they shall not come nigh; neither shall the people go up with him.

     

     

    NEAR – unto? / close to? / next to?

    NIGH – towards? / approach? / advance?

    2 And Moses alone shall come near the LORD: but they shall not come near; neither shall the people go up with him.

     

     

     

    nigh / near

     

    Nigh is replaced with near throughout the bible.

    Matthew 2:11

    and / --- (missing)

     11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

    11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold,  --- frankincense, and myrrh.

    Matthew 24:32

    his / its

    nigh / near

    32  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye  know that summer is nigh:

    32  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When its branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:

    Matthew 26:52

    his / its

    52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

    52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into its place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

    Luke 6:44

    his / its

    44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

    44 For every tree is known by its own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

    Luke 17:2

    he / be

    2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

    2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and be cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

    Luke 24:53

    amen /--- (missing)

    53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God.  Amen.

    53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God.  ---

    twain / two

    betwixt / between

    to wit / “to know” or “that is”

    And many other poetic words; too many to list.

    Used for meaning and poetry.

    Replaced throughout the bible

Is there a link for this Sword Bible?   

It's not a fake KJV because it doesn't claim to be the KJV.  It claims to be the KJVER: King James Version Easy Reading. It explains it's based on the KJV but "updates the language for the modern reader" right in the product description before you order.   Why doesn't your post reveal that it identifies itself as the KJVER version, not the KJV?   

The above post makes it look like it claims to be the KJV but sneaks in changes that someone cleverly discovered by comparing verses to the KJV.  It's not fake.  It's not sneaky.  It's just another KJV-related translation like the KJV2000, AKJV, or NKJV.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 6 months later...

  I don't believe the KJV  text should be changed at all. it should be the 1611 edition, as that was the original one, and all its makers are long-dead, freezing their work in time.

  And I'd like to see the translators' preface, "To The Reader" included, as well as the Apocrypha placed between the Testaments, as the AV 1611 has.

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7 hours ago, robycop3 said:

  I don't believe the KJV  text should be changed at all. it should be the 1611 edition, as that was the original one, and all its makers are long-dead, freezing their work in time.

  And I'd like to see the translators' preface, "To The Reader" included, as well as the Apocrypha placed between the Testaments, as the AV 1611 has.

Why?

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  • 4 weeks later...

  We shouldn't change any of Shakespeare's plays because he's dead, having passes in 1616.

We shouldn't change the KJV because its makers are also all dead.

But GOD'S WORD ITSELF is modernized because God is alive & in charge !

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On 5/27/2018 at 3:14 PM, jdosher said:

 

First off, I like this Sword bible for its Red Letter of the OT and the NT.  However, it has errors, or should I say, changes to GOD's Word.

 

Publisher Whitaker House KJV (fake version) bible errors. 

  1. This is not a true King James Bible.

  2. The word changes  are very subtle, but these changes effect the verse meaning drastically, taking away from the Word of GOD.

  3. Below are some samples.

    Book & Chapter

    KJB / Fake KJV

    King James Bible (KJB) 1611

    Fake KJV (version)

    Very FIRST PAGE of this bible titled:

     This Holy Bible is presented to…

    Has at the bottom of the page;

    2nd Timothy 2:15

    2nd Timothy 2:15

    Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    2nd Timothy 2:15

    Study to show yourself approved to God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Genesis 4:11

    her / his

    11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand;

    11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened his mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand;

    Genesis 4:12

    her / his

    12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive  and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

    12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee his strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

    Genesis 18:4

    fetched / brought

    4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:

    4 Let a little water, I pray you, be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:

    Genesis 18:5

    fetch / bring

    5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

    5 And I will bring a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

    fetch / bring

     

    Fetch is replaced with bring throughout the bible.

    Genesis 39:20

    place / palce

    20 And Joseph’s master took him, and put him into the prison, a place where the king’s prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison.

    20 And Joseph’s master took him, and put him into the prison, a palce where the king’s prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison.

    Exodus 24:2

    near / near

    nigh / near

    KJB has both near and nigh in the same verse.  Do they have a different meaning?

    2 And Moses alone shall come near the LORD: but they shall not come nigh; neither shall the people go up with him.

     

     

    NEAR – unto? / close to? / next to?

    NIGH – towards? / approach? / advance?

    2 And Moses alone shall come near the LORD: but they shall not come near; neither shall the people go up with him.

     

     

     

    nigh / near

     

    Nigh is replaced with near throughout the bible.

    Matthew 2:11

    and / --- (missing)

     11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

    11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold,  --- frankincense, and myrrh.

    Matthew 24:32

    his / its

    nigh / near

    32  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye  know that summer is nigh:

    32  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When its branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:

    Matthew 26:52

    his / its

    52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

    52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into its place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

    Luke 6:44

    his / its

    44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

    44 For every tree is known by its own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

    Luke 17:2

    he / be

    2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

    2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and be cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

    Luke 24:53

    amen /--- (missing)

    53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God.  Amen.

    53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God.  ---

    twain / two

    betwixt / between

    to wit / “to know” or “that is”

    And many other poetic words; too many to list.

    Used for meaning and poetry.

    Replaced throughout the bible

So, "he" is archaic, and a non-issue, and must be modernized in order to make the KJV readable? "Amen" is archaic, and is a non-issue, and must be modernized in order to make the KJV readable? "Twain" is archaic, and a non-issue and must be modernized ?  "Nigh" is archaic, and is a non-issue, and must be modernized? "And" is archaic, and a non-issue, and must be taken out of the KJV text to make it more readable? "Fetch" is  archaic, and a non-issue, and must be modernized? "Her" to "His" is a non-issue, and must be changed?

Every time a new version of the King James Version is brought out, that supposedly just changes the "archaic" words, it turns out the many more changes are made by the whim of the translator. In other words, the translators are using the pretext of the archaic issue to make further changes for: (1) profit; (2) Fame.

For a person to call himself a "Bible Believer," and thinks that these changes are "non-issues," and accepts these changes is, in my eyes, questionable.

 

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32 minutes ago, E Morales said:

I believe all new versions of the bible, just makes the original King James bible stronger. For they all fall short.

Excellent observation.

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I have this Bible-ordered it for my wife while she was in the hospital. I recently began to use it, as she never did, (she wanted her regular bible), having left my 'preaching' Bible at the church house, when I began to preach online from my camper. I had only used it a couple times, but the first thing I noticed was that it changed most of the uses of the name "Timotheus" to "Timothy". Yes, same name, same person, but I suspect there was a reason for the different uses of the names, though I haven't done a study on that. It just seemed...odd, as they left Timotheus in a few places, but changed it in others. So I went and got my regular preaching KJV Bible, because if some things have been changed without letting on, that else is changed? Some things DO make a difference, like "Always" Vs. Alway", which is 'always' changed to "always" in modern versions. Or thoroughly vs throughly: different, though similar words.

 

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On ‎4‎/‎20‎/‎2020 at 11:08 AM, Ukulelemike said:

.  thoroughly vs throughly: different, though similar words.

 

How do you know that the two are different words and not just a spelling variation or the updating of an archaic spelling?

What is the difference in meaning between the two words?

At Exodus 21:19, the 1611 edition of the KJV and most KJV editions until the mid-1700's had "throughly" but the spelling was updated to "thoroughly" in a 1747 London KJV edition, then in the standard 1762 Cambridge edition, and then in the standard 1769 Oxford edition.

At 2 Kings 11:18, the 1611 edition of the KJV and most KJV editions until the mid-1700's had "throughly" but the spelling was updated to "thoroughly" in a 1747 London KJV edition, then in the standard 1762 Cambridge edition, and again in the standard 1769 Oxford edition.  London KJV editions printed in 1630, 1631, 1640, 1644, 1650, 1652, and 1655 had the spelling "thorowly" at 2 Kings 11:18.  This spelling "thorowly" was likely introduced to match the spelling "thorowly" in the 1611 edition and in most London KJV editions until the 1650's at Genesis 11:3.  This old spelling of the word in some 1600's KJV edition had an "o" before the "r" just like what is considered the standard spelling today.

When I typed "throughly" in this post, my computer changed the spelling to "thoroughly" as it did not accept that old spelling as an acceptable standard present spelling.  I had to go back and remove an "o" added by my computer in the word to get the old spelling.

While some have claimed that all spelling in KJV editions was updated by 1769, that is not true.  It is a verifiable fact that the 1769 Oxford edition of the KJV sometimes spelled the same word two ways.  The 1769 Oxford edition had two spellings of the following words:  "razor" and "razor", "valleys" and "vallies", "floats" and "flotes", "scepter" and "scepter", "sycamore" and "sycomore," "yern" and "yearned", "ax" and "axe", "wondrously" and "wonderously," "foal" and "fole", "falsely" and "falsly", etc.   Perhaps "throughly" and "thoroughly" could be another example where the 1769 Oxford spelled the same word two ways.

 

 

 

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On 5/27/2018 at 4:14 PM, jdosher said:

 

First off, I like this Sword bible for its Red Letter of the OT and the NT.  However, it has errors, or should I say, changes to GOD's Word.

 

Publisher Whitaker House KJV (fake version) bible errors. 

  1. This is not a true King James Bible.

  2. The word changes  are very subtle, but these changes effect the verse meaning drastically, taking away from the Word of GOD.

  3. Below are some samples.

    Book & Chapter

    KJB / Fake KJV

    King James Bible (KJB) 1611

    Fake KJV (version)

    Very FIRST PAGE of this bible titled:

     This Holy Bible is presented to…

    Has at the bottom of the page;

    2nd Timothy 2:15

    2nd Timothy 2:15

    Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    2nd Timothy 2:15

    Study to show yourself approved to God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Genesis 4:11

    her / his

    11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand;

    11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened his mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand;

    Genesis 4:12

    her / his

    12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive  and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

    12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee his strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

    Genesis 18:4

    fetched / brought

    4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:

    4 Let a little water, I pray you, be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:

    Genesis 18:5

    fetch / bring

    5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

    5 And I will bring a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

    fetch / bring

     

    Fetch is replaced with bring throughout the bible.

    Genesis 39:20

    place / palce

    20 And Joseph’s master took him, and put him into the prison, a place where the king’s prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison.

    20 And Joseph’s master took him, and put him into the prison, a palce where the king’s prisoners were bound: and he was there in the prison.

    Exodus 24:2

    near / near

    nigh / near

    KJB has both near and nigh in the same verse.  Do they have a different meaning?

    2 And Moses alone shall come near the LORD: but they shall not come nigh; neither shall the people go up with him.

     

     

    NEAR – unto? / close to? / next to?

    NIGH – towards? / approach? / advance?

    2 And Moses alone shall come near the LORD: but they shall not come near; neither shall the people go up with him.

     

     

     

    nigh / near

     

    Nigh is replaced with near throughout the bible.

    Matthew 2:11

    and / --- (missing)

     11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.

    11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold,  --- frankincense, and myrrh.

    Matthew 24:32

    his / its

    nigh / near

    32  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye  know that summer is nigh:

    32  Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When its branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:

    Matthew 26:52

    his / its

    52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

    52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into its place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

    Luke 6:44

    his / its

    44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

    44 For every tree is known by its own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

    Luke 17:2

    he / be

    2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

    2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and be cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

    Luke 24:53

    amen /--- (missing)

    53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God.  Amen.

    53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God.  ---

    twain / two

    betwixt / between

    to wit / “to know” or “that is”

    And many other poetic words; too many to list.

    Used for meaning and poetry.

    Replaced throughout the bible

looks like the basically just decided to update to modern English grammar, so still a kjv!

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On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 10:21 PM, Jordan Kurecki said:

While there are clearly some differences that change meaning, shew and show are the same exact word, just different spellings, Shew is British spelling and show is American,

There were editions of the KJV printed in Great Britain in the 1800's that had the spelling "show" at Genesis 12:1 instead of "shew".   Examples would be London KJV editions printed in 1838, 1853, 1877, and 1879; an Edinburgh edition printed in 1858, and Glasgow editions printed in 1860 and 1866.

I have heard KJV preachers pronounce "shew" as though it was spelled "show".    If it is acceptable to pronounce the word as "show," why should it not be acceptable to give the standard American spelling for it?

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 10:21 PM, Jordan Kurecki said:

 But modern equivalent of archaic words are not changes in meaning, nor are spelling changes either..

I agree.

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What is this? Fault-finding time for the KJV? Why do folks come to a KJV forum to find fault with the KJV and not enter into any of the other discussions? Methinks they come here on Online Baptist for ulterior motives.

Looking for excuses to change not only the different spellings involved with the different KJV version to justify the insidious corruptions found in all of the newer versions, including the NKJV, behind the corrections in spellings? So what is a pastor wants to keep the word spelled 'shew' instead of 'show?' Do we not have Christian liberty to do so?

Concerning the nit-picking issues of the spelling differences between the KJV versions, and other minor differences, the Lord Jesus said concerning those folks who use nit-picking issues to find fault with the work of God, the church, the Bible, and are like the Pharisees who found fault with the Lord Jesus Himself; the Lord Jesus said, "Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel." Folks, even saints, strain at the gnats, the minor differences with the various KJV versions, and swallow the camel of trying to find a better version or accept these new corrupt versions; like the NKJV, are in error.

King Solomon stated, "They search out iniquities; they accomplish a diligent search, both the inward thought of every one of them, and the heart, is deep." Proverbs 64:6. The problem is spiritual and not with the minor differences in the KJV versions.

Have not you ever considered that God, in order to find out the intents of the heart, deliberately allowed these differences in the KJV versions with spelling differences to test us?

For those folks who just want to find fault with the KJV, please stop your nit-picking or just, out of Christian grace, leave and go so some other non-KJV forum.

 

 

 

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I recognize and honor the Christian liberty of believers to disagree about matters not clearly stated in the Scriptures.

Speaking or presenting the truth and verifiable facts to one another would be in agreement with honoring Christian liberty, and it is not finding fault with the work of God.

Edited by Tyndale
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      How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:3-9
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      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
      SCRIPTURAL MARY

      I WALK NOT ON WATER NOR CHANGE IT TO WINE
      SO HEARKEN O’ SINNER TO THIS STORY OF MINE
      I, AM A DAUGHTER OF ABRAHAM SINNER BY BIRTH
      A HAND MAID OF LOW ESTATE USED HERE ON EARTH
      MY HAIR IS NOT GENTILE BLOND, I HAVE NOT EYES OF BLUE
      A MOTHER OF MANY CHILDREN A DAUGHTER OF A JEW
      FOR JOSEPH MY HUSBAND DID HONOUR OUR BED
      TO FATHER OUR CHILDREN WHO NOW ARE ALL DEAD
      BUT I SPEAK NOT OF THESE WHO I LOVED SO WELL
      BUT OF THE FIRST BORN WHICH SAVED ME FROM HELL
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               2
      WHEN I WAS A VIRGIN UNKNOWN BY MAN
      THE ANGEL OF GOD SPOKE OF GOD’S PLAN
      FOR I HAD BEEN CHOSEN A FAVOUR VESSEL OF CLAY
      TO BARE THE SON OF THE HIGHEST BY AN UNUSUAL WAY
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      SO MY WOMB GOD FILLED WHEN HE OVER SHADOW ME
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      WOULD JOSEPH MY BETROTHED MAKE ME HIS WIFE
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      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                              3
      THEN MY SOUL DID REJOICE IN GOD MY SAVIOR
      HE SCATTERED THE PROUD AND BLESS ME WITH FAVOR
      O’ THE RICH ARE EMPTY, THE HUNGRY HAVE GOOD THINGS
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      TO THE CITY OF DAVID JOSEPH AND I WENT
      ON A BEAST OF BURDEN OUR STRENGTH NEAR SPEND
      NO ROOM AT An INN, BUT A STABLE WAS FOUND
      WITH STRAW AND DUNG LAID ON THE GROUND
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
                                                  4
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      FROM THE GLORY OF GLORIES TO A BEGGAR’S DOMAIN
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      ENDURING SPIT AND THORNS PLACED ON HIS HEAD
      YET, IF YOU WISH TO HONOR ME THEN GIVE ME NONE AT ALL
      BUT TRUST THE LAMB WHO STOOL IN PILATE’S HALL
      CALL NOT ON THIS REDEEMED WOMAN IN YOUR TIME OF FEAR
      FOR I WILL NOT GIVE ANSWER NEITHER WILL I HEAR
      AND WHEN THE BOOKS ARE OPEN AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE
      I AMEN YOUR DAMNATION THAT TRUST NOT HIM ALONE
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, O’ SINNER TRUST ME NOT

                       WRITTEN BY BRO. WEST
       
      · 0 replies
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