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The Morality Behind Christian Women Wearing Pants


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1 hour ago, SureWord said:

The public school I drive bus for has more dress codes than many churches in America.

Yes, and/or,   the "churches" do have much stricter instructions (even as to what to think and not sin),

but they say "God has not appeared nor said anything in our lifetimes,  no one gets punished for anything, God's not going to do anything about it,   so we might as well party and do as we wish...."   paraphrased.

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1 hour ago, SureWord said:

The public school I drive bus for has more dress codes than many churches in America.

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke,

exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;  And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. (2Tim 4:2-4)  "

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There seems to be another oddity among those that are so vocal about women wearing pants. I have heard it so many times that it causes me to wonder just what these people are thinking about when they get on this subject.

That oddity is a hyphenated word that they use to describe pants, but only when talking about women wearing them. The hyphenated word is "split-legged"; as in, women should not wear split-legged pants.

Just seems odd to me, is there any other kind, or are they only split-legged when women wear them?

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4 hours ago, SureWord said:

The public school I drive bus for has more dress codes than many churches in America.

When talking about the New Testament church, who should be the authority to tell us how we ought to behave ourselves "in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth"?  I would think the answer should be -- Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Head of the church, concerning whom God the Father desires that in all things He should have the preeminence.  So then, in the New Testament Scriptures has our Lord Jesus Christ, the Head of the church, given us by Holy Spirit inspiration more or less "dress codes" than the public school for whom your drive bus?  Your comment above seems to carry a negative view of many churches in America because they have less "dress codes."  It would seem that if our Lord Jesus Christ, the Head of the church, has given less "dress codes" in the New Testament Scriptures for the New Testament church, then the same negative view would carry against Him as well.

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12 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

When talking about the New Testament church, who should be the authority to tell us how we ought to behave ourselves "in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth"?  I would think the answer should be -- Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Head of the church, concerning whom God the Father desires that in all things He should have the preeminence.  So then, in the New Testament Scriptures has our Lord Jesus Christ, the Head of the church, given us by Holy Spirit inspiration more or less "dress codes" than the public school for whom your drive bus?  Your comment above seems to carry a negative view of many churches in America because they have less "dress codes."  It would seem that if our Lord Jesus Christ, the Head of the church, has given less "dress codes" in the New Testament Scriptures for the New Testament church, then the same negative view would carry against Him as well.

I've been in churches with women wearing yoga pants and miniskirts. None are allowed on our buses.  The "dress code" is modesty. 

Edited by SureWord
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8 minutes ago, SureWord said:

I've been in churches with women wearing yoga pants and miniskirts. None are allowed on our buses.  The "dress code" is modesty. 

Indeed, the "dress code" as presented by our Lord Jesus Christ is to wear "modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety," . . . "which becometh women professing godliness."  The issue of MORE "dress codes" than your public school is not actually relevant.  Rather, the relevant issue is whether the women of God are following the ACTUAL "dress code" that our Lord Jesus Christ provided.

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38 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Indeed, the "dress code" as presented by our Lord Jesus Christ is to wear "modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety," . . . "which becometh women professing godliness."  The issue of MORE "dress codes" than your public school is not actually relevant.  Rather, the relevant issue is whether the women of God are following the ACTUAL "dress code" that our Lord Jesus Christ provided.

Why are you making an issue out of this? My original point was the public school I work for expects more modesty than many churches in America. I'm not sure why you are picking a fight over this.

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9 hours ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke,

exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;  And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. (2Tim 4:2-4)  "

And this relates to this thread how?

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Again referring for convenience at this point to David Cloud's newsletter,  lamenting the fall of churches from being faithful,  disciplined,  living like God's People ,  Biblically,   to a social acceptable appealing gospel without repentance needed,  without obedience or integrity needed,  without distinction between true churches and false churched,  

the modesty seen in a true church is absolutely completely different that the lack of modesty seen in false churches.    And that's without argument , without stress,  without domineering leadership.

One tiny example - at a home style meeting in a local school property,   about 30 faithful believers met to read the Bible, to talk about The Creator our Father, and about Jesus and His Life Revealed in Scripture,

someone brought a guest who was dressed immodestly, inappropriately,  and this was very clear to everyone as soon as they walked in.  It appeared to be an accidental oversight,  or simply not realizing ,  not a blatant disregard on purpose. 

Without fanfare,  without embarrassment,  without making a show of it,  a few members in the assembly/meeting who were prepared by maturity and experience in God's Life, went with the visitor(s) quietly somewhere out of sight,   (might even have been in the same room, it was a large auditorium type room) ,   and in a moment,  in the twinkling of an eye,  they were transformed!  🙂  smile

They were properly modest and God's people continued discussing Jesus and God's Word without interruption.

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1 hour ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

Again referring for convenience at this point to David Cloud's newsletter,  lamenting the fall of churches from being faithful,  disciplined,  living like God's People ,  Biblically,   to a social acceptable appealing gospel without repentance needed,  without obedience or integrity needed,  without distinction between true churches and false churched,  

the modesty seen in a true church is absolutely completely different that the lack of modesty seen in false churches.    And that's without argument , without stress,  without domineering leadership.

One tiny example - at a home style meeting in a local school property,   about 30 faithful believers met to read the Bible, to talk about The Creator our Father, and about Jesus and His Life Revealed in Scripture,

someone brought a guest who was dressed immodestly, inappropriately,  and this was very clear to everyone as soon as they walked in.  It appeared to be an accidental oversight,  or simply not realizing ,  not a blatant disregard on purpose. 

Without fanfare,  without embarrassment,  without making a show of it,  a few members in the assembly/meeting who were prepared by maturity and experience in God's Life, went with the visitor(s) quietly somewhere out of sight,   (might even have been in the same room, it was a large auditorium type room) ,   and in a moment,  in the twinkling of an eye,  they were transformed!  🙂  smile

They were properly modest and God's people continued discussing Jesus and God's Word without interruption.

This thread is about women wearing slacks...

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8 hours ago, SureWord said:

My original point was the public school I work for expects more modesty than many churches in America. 

And such is a spiritually grievous problem, for those who profess godliness should certainly maintain a higher standard of modesty than the lost world does.

9 hours ago, SureWord said:

Why are you making an issue out of this?

I'm not sure why you are picking a fight over this.

"Picking a fight" - Not at all my intention.  Pushing to Biblical precision - Definitely my intention.

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Read the title.   "The Morality".....

7 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

This thread is about women wearing slacks...

 

4 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

And such is a spiritually grievous problem, for those who profess godliness should certainly maintain a higher standard of modesty than the lost world does.

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15 minutes ago, BrotherTony said:

Read it in total, Jeff...As I've stated again and again to BB, I don't do semantics! 

No need for semantics at all.

Morality is lacking today.  

Pants or no pants is just leaves on the tree - maybe the results of morality or immorality.

Immorality is not lacking today.

That is the real problem for people everywhere.

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4 minutes ago, jeff_student_of_Jesus said:

No need for semantics at all.

Morality is lacking today.  

Pants or no pants is just leaves on the tree - maybe the results of morality or immorality.

Immorality is not lacking today.

That is the real problem for people everywhere.

Morality has been lacking since shortly after the beginning of time. That still has nothing to do with the "morality behind Christian women wearing pants." If they're modest, I see nothing wrong with it, and there is no Scripture that clearly points to it being so. 

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There were it seems and I expect many IFB teachers and preachers who showed clearly from KJV that it was immodest and sinful.  I don't think those lessons , sermons , or teachings will be found here.  

Instead,  revealing perhaps a starting point,    as Christian teachers and Jewish teachers with, from, and in line with all Scripture have revealed > 

"According to Rabbi Colon, modesty was still a criterion for wearing gentile clothing, writing: "...even if Israel made it as their custom [to wear] a certain item of clothing, while the Gentiles [would wear] something different, if the Israelite garment should not measure up to [the standard established in] Judaism or of modesty more than what the Gentiles hold as their practice, there is no prohibition whatsoever for an Israelite to wear the garment that is practised among the Gentiles, seeing that it is in [keeping with] the way of fitness and modesty just as that of Israel."[31]

"Rabbi Joseph Karo (1488–1575), following in the footsteps of Colon, ruled in accordance with Colon's teaching in his seminal work Beit Yosef on the Tur (Yoreh De'ah §178), and in his commentary Kessef Mishneh (on Maimonides' Mishne Torah, Hilkhot Avodat Kokhavim 11:1), making the wearing of gentile clothing contingent upon three factors: 1) that they not be promiscuous clothing; 2) not be clothing linked to an idolatrous practice; 3) not be clothing that was worn because of some superstitious practice (or "the way of the Amorites"). Rabbi Moses Isserles (1530–1572) opines that to these strictures can be added one additional prohibition of wearing clothes that are a "custom" for them (the gentiles) to wear, that is to say, an exclusive gentile custom where the clothing is immodest.[32] Rabbi and posek Moshe Feinstein (1895–1986) subscribed to the same strictures.[33]"

Edited by jeff_student_of_Jesus
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1 Timothy 2

6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. 7Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. 8I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. 9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 10But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. 11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

In other words, "modest and shamefaced" involves not intentionally drawing attention to one's appearance. What kind of apparel does that? We all should know. So men are to help the ladies by "praying and lifting up holy hands without wrath and doubting", regardless of what the ladies do, and ladies likewise are to help the men by doing their specified part as well. So, yeah, knowing do do good and doing it not is sin.

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7 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

1 Timothy 2

6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. 7Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. 8I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. 9In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 10But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. 11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

In other words, "modest and shamefaced" involves not intentionally drawing attention to one's appearance. What kind of apparel does that? We all should know. So men are to help the ladies by "praying and lifting up holy hands without wrath and doubting", regardless of what the ladies do, and ladies likewise are to help the men by doing their specified part as well. So, yeah, knowing do do good and doing it not is sin.

So, are you making the statement that womens slacks are wrong? Coullottes? Skirts...I've seen them long, short and micro-mini this past week. Modest apparel doesn't necessarily rule slacks out. Just looking for clarification. Thanks.

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So, let us consider a corresponding question --

Deuteronomy 22:5 teaches that a man should not "put on a woman's garment."  Here then is the question -- Is skirt-wear "a woman's garment?"

If you say "yes" to the above question, did you come to that conclusion through the actual declarations of God's own Word, or through some other "authority"?

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