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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         14
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Does 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 teach the sign gifts have ceased?


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12 minutes ago, Alan said:

Marilyn,

Since you answered "No" to the four questions, can you please explain the following dates in the following "Worthy Christian Forum,"The Tribulation Calendar - The Date for the Peace Treaty. - Marilyn's Messages - Worthy Christian Forums.html posting.

In that posting you clearly state that the date for the signing of the peace treaty by the Jews with the anti-Christ is on March 16, 2010.

Marilyn's Messages

A blog by Marilyn C

The Tribulation Calendar - The Date for the Peace Treaty.

image.png.304acd332bf4d5210364b3099d0e22ea.png

Entry posted by Marilyn C · December 6, 2017

The Peace Treaty - Adar 20th (March 16th 2020)

The month of Adar is the time of rejoicing of deliverance from enemies. It is the last month of the Jewish year and the happiest in the calendar. This rejoicing will be after God deals with the Russian Federation of Israel`s mountains.                  

  image.png.8eaf83df2a9ca5a5f702045f8927c04f.png

 

The Peace Treaty, I believe, will be signed and come into effect on Monday March the 16th 2020. (Adar 20)

This is the beginning of the working week and will usher in the `7 year` Tribulation.


Regards,

Alan

 

 

Hi Alan,

Wow, I didn`t know I was so .....well...known. Glad you brought that up. Yes I have done some calculations according to God`s numbers in His word. That is my `opinion` for the time of the Peace treaty etc. The date of the rapture is not known or given in God`s word. However God does clearly say, referring to the day of the Lord, (tribulation) and thus rapture before that -

`But ye brethren are not in darkness that this day, (day of the Lord) should overtake you as a thief.` (1 Thess. 5: 4)

`...exhorting one another; and so much the more as you see the day (of the Lord) approaching.` (Heb. 10: 25)

As we will see the day of the Lord, the tribulation approaching then the rapture would be before that. And I believe that the Holy Spirit will quicken believer`s hearts right across the Body as the time draws very near.

regards, Marilyn.

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So, you are a prophetess. So, no wonder you stated that the signs of 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 have not ceased and are with us today.

The dates that you giving, in my eyes, are prophecies, and not a "forth-telling" in my understanding of the word.

Alan

 

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If anybody would like to know the date of the Lord Jesus Second Coming, according to Marilyn's calculations, please read the following.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1008-the-tribulation-calendar-the-date-for-jesus-return/

Alan

Edited by Alan
added the words, "Second Coming."
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Just now, Alan said:

So, you are a prophetess. So, no wonder you stated that the signs of 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 have not ceased and are with us today.

The dates that you giving, in my eyes, are prophecies, and not a "forth-telling" in my understanding of the word.

Alan

 

Hi Alan,

No, just some one who studies eschatology. The numbers are there along with God`s festivals for Israel.

Marilyn.

Just now, Alan said:

If anybody would like to know the date of the Lord Jesus according to Marilyn's calculations, please read the following.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1008-the-tribulation-calendar-the-date-for-jesus-return/

Alan

Thank you Alan, very kind of you. And I would be interested to hear people`s thoughts on that series or any other of my blogs, my personal thoughts.

regards, Marilyn.

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Just now, Marilyn C said:

Hi Alan,

No, just some one who studies eschatology. The numbers are there along with God`s festivals for Israel.

Marilyn.

I do not believe that for a moment. In my eyes you have been playing word games, dancing around our questions, giving us ambiguous answers, and so forth.

Jordan,

The sign gifts of 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 have ceased.

Alan

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10 minutes ago, Alan said:

I do not believe that for a moment. In my eyes you have been playing word games, dancing around our questions, giving us ambiguous answers, and so forth.

Jordan,

The sign gifts of 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 have ceased.

Alan

Hi Alan,

I can understand that we are seeing things differently, and sorry that you think I have been playing games. That would be quite disrespectful not only to you but to God`s word and the listeners. Hope we can discuss perhaps on other topics,

regards, Marilyn.

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58 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

 

Hi Alan,

1. No.

2. No.

3. No.

4. No.

Marilyn.

Interesting set of answers considering number 3 in light of Alan's post.

I wonder which of the other answers are "reinterpreted" from fact?

I wonder which of her other statements are stated in terms as "correct" as her answer in number 3?

And that answer is a pretty strange "mistake" to make, considering the precise nature of question 3.

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1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Alan,

I can understand that we are seeing things differently, and sorry that you think I have been playing games.

Seeing things differently is answering "No" to a question to which the answer is clearly "Yes"?

Is it any wonder that he thinks you are playing games?

There is "seeing things differently" and there is this......

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2 hours ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

Well this thread opened up a whole can of worms..

Brother Jordan,

At the present I am still planning, as time will permit, to respond unto your original posting (as per your private request).  However, at present I am not planning to deal with the "can" or the "worms" that have already occurred.

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30 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother Jordan,

At the present I am still planning, as time will permit, to respond unto your original posting (as per your private request).  However, at present I am not planning to deal with the "can" or the "worms" that have already occurred.

Brother that is fine. I’m not really interested in the can of worms that has been opened. 

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Much of the problem comes from not rightly dividing God's word. 

"For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom" (1 Cor.1:22)

We see also in Mark 16:17-18 the following:

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

Sadly, many have erroneously believed that the sign gifts applies to themselves in this current church/grace age. After all it does say "And these signs shall follow them that believe". We believe, right? Yet that scripture is not written about us church/grace-age believers.
There have been many who have attempted to force these sign gifts to fit in the grace/church age and claim them (erroneously) for themselves. Those who've taken up serpents (and been bitten and died). Those who drink poison ("any deadly thing") and have died also. Those who have tried to claim they have the"gift of healing" (and notice that there is nothing there requiring the recipient of the healing to have faith... rather instead that "they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Not maybe recover, not might recover, not recover if they have enough faith, no... "they shall recover" (no doubt about it). If they truly had that gift they would go to any given hospital and heal the children in cancer wards. And if they had the gift of healing then those children would definitely recover, not maybe reocver, but "shall recover".

NONE have the sign gifts to do such things today. Isn't it interesting that the sign gifts that are claimed by charlatans today are those which cannot be proven. They claim to be able to speak in tongues (yet don't even follow the scriptural rules for the time when sign gifts were in effect, prior to the canon of scripture being complete).  

What were those rules for that time period? Look at 1 Cor.14:27-28 "If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God."

The holy roller, name it and claim it, blab it and grab it crowd doesn't even follow scriptural mandate for speaking in tongues. (Regardless of the fact that it's no longer possible today). Every video I've seen of those who CLAIM they can speak in tongues is a disorganized melee of babbling incoherently by dozens of people. Definitely more than three persons. None interpreting. No order, but chaos. 

1 Cor.14:33 (same chapter) "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."

Now we know that they truly cannot speak in tongues. The sign gifts were meant for Israel. It was the Jews who required signs. Those sign gifts ended when the canon of scripture was perfected and closed. 

1 Cor.13:8 tells us that there would come a time when prophesying would fail, when tongues would cease. Verse 10 tells us that "...that which is in part shall be done away." When? When "that which is perfect is come". What which is perfect? God's word in full, which ended with the Revelation of Christ given to John on the isle of Patmos. There is no reason for additional "prophesy" since His prophetic word is perfect and complete.

Speaking of false prophecy: How sad that someone would actually set a date, make a calendar, and claim an actual date.  Though not surprising given the unsound doctrine that's being accepted today in the perilous last days. Harold Camping move over, looks like Marilyn has a new date set! Maybe she can get a video going like Scottie Clarke did last year (claiming Sept 23rd, then keep moving the date when it doesn't happen). Do these people realize how they give a black eye to God's word? How when they lead both unbelievers and babes in Christ into buying these false dates, when the date comes and goes (as it always does) then those who are "...tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive". 

If it were up to some of these holy rollers they would be attempting to add to the canon of scripture their latest "dreams and visions" nonsense from the devil (2 Cor.11:14-15). Every other day is another quack claiming to be a "prophet", calling themselves an "apostle", or other heresies.  Too many to even refute now days. No matter, after the first or second admonition reject (Titus 3:9-11). These really are the perilous last days (2 Tim.3:1-7, 13), so we can expect those who are deceived to continue to wax worse and worse. 

What gifts remains today?

1 Cor.13:13 "And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."

Maranatha!

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Hi Ronda,

If you or any one cares to look at my blog series of the `Tribulation Calendar`(Worthy Christian Forum) then they will see that I have NOT made a date for the rapture. That is NOT in God`s word, What I have done is put all of the numbers concerning Israel and the nations on a time line and then fitted then in to God`s festivals. That is just a study of eschatology using ONLY God`s numbers and His festivals.

Some people jump to conclusions and haven`t even read what I wrote. The dates (plural) are for the various events that God gives numbers for in His word.

regards, Marilyn.

BTW Sorry Jordan that your thread ha been side tracked by `witch hunters.`  

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18 hours ago, Ronda said:

Much of the problem comes from not rightly dividing God's word. 

"For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom" (1 Cor.1:22)

We see also in Mark 16:17-18 the following:

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

Sadly, many have erroneously believed that the sign gifts applies to themselves in this current church/grace age. After all it does say "And these signs shall follow them that believe". We believe, right? Yet that scripture is not written about us church/grace-age believers.
There have been many who have attempted to force these sign gifts to fit in the grace/church age and claim them (erroneously) for themselves. Those who've taken up serpents (and been bitten and died). Those who drink poison ("any deadly thing") and have died also. Those who have tried to claim they have the"gift of healing" (and notice that there is nothing there requiring the recipient of the healing to have faith... rather instead that "they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Not maybe recover, not might recover, not recover if they have enough faith, no... "they shall recover" (no doubt about it). If they truly had that gift they would go to any given hospital and heal the children in cancer wards. And if they had the gift of healing then those children would definitely recover, not maybe reocver, but "shall recover".

NONE have the sign gifts to do such things today. Isn't it interesting that the sign gifts that are claimed by charlatans today are those which cannot be proven. They claim to be able to speak in tongues (yet don't even follow the scriptural rules for the time when sign gifts were in effect, prior to the canon of scripture being complete).  

What were those rules for that time period? Look at 1 Cor.14:27-28 "If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God."

The holy roller, name it and claim it, blab it and grab it crowd doesn't even follow scriptural mandate for speaking in tongues. (Regardless of the fact that it's no longer possible today). Every video I've seen of those who CLAIM they can speak in tongues is a disorganized melee of babbling incoherently by dozens of people. Definitely more than three persons. None interpreting. No order, but chaos. 

1 Cor.14:33 (same chapter) "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."

Now we know that they truly cannot speak in tongues. The sign gifts were meant for Israel. It was the Jews who required signs. Those sign gifts ended when the canon of scripture was perfected and closed. 

1 Cor.13:8 tells us that there would come a time when prophesying would fail, when tongues would cease. Verse 10 tells us that "...that which is in part shall be done away." When? When "that which is perfect is come". What which is perfect? God's word in full, which ended with the Revelation of Christ given to John on the isle of Patmos. There is no reason for additional "prophesy" since His prophetic word is perfect and complete.

Speaking of false prophecy: How sad that someone would actually set a date, make a calendar, and claim an actual date.  Though not surprising given the unsound doctrine that's being accepted today in the perilous last days. Harold Camping move over, looks like Marilyn has a new date set! Maybe she can get a video going like Scottie Clarke did last year (claiming Sept 23rd, then keep moving the date when it doesn't happen). Do these people realize how they give a black eye to God's word? How when they lead both unbelievers and babes in Christ into buying these false dates, when the date comes and goes (as it always does) then those who are "...tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive". 

If it were up to some of these holy rollers they would be attempting to add to the canon of scripture their latest "dreams and visions" nonsense from the devil (2 Cor.11:14-15). Every other day is another quack claiming to be a "prophet", calling themselves an "apostle", or other heresies.  Too many to even refute now days. No matter, after the first or second admonition reject (Titus 3:9-11). These really are the perilous last days (2 Tim.3:1-7, 13), so we can expect those who are deceived to continue to wax worse and worse. 

What gifts remains today?

1 Cor.13:13 "And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."

Maranatha!

A necessary rebuke IMO

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My concern is this...

Since the Lord Jesus Christ explicitly proclaimed that no man knows of that day or hour; in which, he will return...

Since the Lord Jesus Christ explicitly compared himself to the master of the house and explicitly said that his servants didn't know if he would return at "even", "midnight", the "cockcrowing", or "morning"...

Since the Lord Jesus Christ explicitly said that he would return when we think not...

I would be overtly hesitant to proclaim that I believed that he would return upon a certain day...and furthermore...upon a certain day at evening.

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23 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

My concern is this...

Since the Lord Jesus Christ explicitly proclaimed that no man knows of that day or hour; in which, he will return...

Since the Lord Jesus Christ explicitly compared himself to the master of the house and explicitly said that his servants didn't know if he would return at "even", "midnight", the "cockcrowing", or "morning"...

Since the Lord Jesus Christ explicitly said that he would return when we think not...

I would be overtly hesitant to proclaim that I believed that he would return upon a certain day...and furthermore...upon a certain day at evening.

this is probably a rabbit trail, but one I would like to pursue.

According to 1 Corinthians 15 the rapture is a mystery that was not revealed. How then can a statement in Matthew 24 about no man knowing the day or hour be applicable to the rapture? if Matthew 24: 36 is the rapture, how come we don't also apply Matthew 24:29-31 also to the rapture? 

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1 hour ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

this is probably a rabbit trail, but one I would like to pursue.

According to 1 Corinthians 15 the rapture is a mystery that was not revealed. How then can a statement in Matthew 24 about no man knowing the day or hour be applicable to the rapture? if Matthew 24: 36 is the rapture, how come we don't also apply Matthew 24:29-31 also to the rapture? 

I apologize if my post wasn't clear. My post wasn't about the "Rapture".

I was actually referring to scriptures found in both Mark and Matthew. However, my personal view is that both accounts are referring to when the Lord Jesus Christ returns at the end of the Tribulation Period...not the "Rapture".

EDITED TO ADD: In other words, I can't answer your question since I believe the scriptures (in question) have nothing to do with the "Rapture".

Edited by No Nicolaitans
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 3:25 PM, Jordan Kurecki said:

1. Does the cessation of spiritual gifts hinge on 1 Corinthians 13:8-12? What other passages of the bible teach cessationism of the sign gifts?

For an initial posting concerning my answer to the original posting, I would state that 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 is (from my perspective) the foundational passage concerning the Biblical teaching on the cessation of the sign gifts.  I would present such for the following reasons:

1.  This passage DIRECTLY indicates the cessation for some of the gifts.  This is rarely disputed, for most acknowledge this declaration as such.  Rather, that which is generally disputed is not the reality of the cessation, but the timing of the cessation.

2.  This passage is located within the most extensive Biblical teaching concerning spiritual gifts, since that teaching extends in 1 Corinthians from chapter 12-14.  Indeed, the entire context, including the "charity" teaching in 1 Corinthians 13, is all about the matter and ministry of spiritual gifts.

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