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Calvinism or Arminianism? How do you answer?


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On 7/10/2020 at 9:04 PM, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Indeed, this is a little more clear than saying, "Neither a Calvinist nor Arminian, but a Baptist," since the Baptists have included whole categories both of Calvinists and Arminians.

As for myself, I would agree -- Neither a Calvinist nor an Arminian, but a Biblicist.  (Although to be precise, I would have to acknowledge that I hold the same as the Arminian on three out of five "points," since those three points are mutually exclusive and only allow for an "either/or" option.  Yet I am neither Calvinist nor Arminian on the other two "points.")

   The last time I looked there were 24 diver groups of Baptist, which gets a little confusing.

But to be a true Calvinist I guess one should follow Calvin.

Want to be a true Calvinist then sprinkle babies, be A-millennial, burn an opponent at the stake (Servetetus),teach that the Son is an eternally begotten God and hate the Jew.

Their [the Jews] rotten and unbending stiffneckedness deserves that they be oppressed unending and without measure or end and that they die in their misery without the pity of anyone. John Calvin How is that for I will bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee. (Gen. 12:3


 

 

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Being crippled I can not walk up and down these steep drive ways anymore, so I street preach instead a good lamp post is my friend. Here I either get the finger and such or have Christians walk up and thanks us. I have yet on the streets had anyone want to declare Calvinism or Arminianism to me. The average Joe has no idea about these terms. He is just lost and on his way to hell. Therefore, I just preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified and make sure to preach against the wafer god (yummy, yummy, yummy I've got God in my tummy) works, baptisms, Mary and church membership for salvation. A few clowns show up want to promote tongues or baptism. or Atheism. Being a former Arminian I am well equipped to answer both. I believe that the average Joe is full of TV and secular reasoning or Catholicism he is blind to theological jargon. I write devotionals and touch on these matters, but these go to the saved. I envy you guys who can use your skills, keep it up.

                                              Yours Bro. West

 

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On 12/8/2021 at 12:27 PM, Bro. West said:

   The last time I looked there were 24 diver groups of Baptist, which gets a little confusing.

But to be a true Calvinist I guess one should follow Calvin.

Want to be a true Calvinist then sprinkle babies, be A-millennial, burn an opponent at the stake (Servetetus),teach that the Son is an eternally begotten God and hate the Jew.

Their [the Jews] rotten and unbending stiffneckedness deserves that they be oppressed unending and without measure or end and that they die in their misery without the pity of anyone. John Calvin How is that for I will bless them that bless thee and curse them that curse thee. (Gen. 12:3


 

 

Or be a biblical calvinist like myself, and hold to believers baptism, and premill!

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1 hour ago, 1Timothy115 said:

I'm a Christian and then a Baptist, I say go out and "compel them to come in". Matthew 28:18-20 is what I always think of when this discussion comes up.

What does that make me? you decide.

 

A concerned, responsible, Biblical Christian! 🙂

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5 minutes ago, Barbara Ann said:

A good refutation of Arminianism and a prominet IFB pastor who preaches Arminian doctrine:

https://silo.tips/download/it-is-obvious-that-choosing-that-election-and-that-foreknowlege-have-nothing-to

Question to you in all sincerity....I've clicked on all of your links in your posts, and it's starting to look to me like you're here to do nothing more than advertise these cheesy, cheap looking religious sites. Just an observation, but I would like clarification. Just what IS your purpose here? Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with the information ON the sites, but, I've found in the past, through having forums of my own, that people who come in and start the way you have usually have an alterior motive By the way, have you posted an introduction in the welcome section yet? We'd like to know a bit more about you. Thanks. 🙂

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Why settle for Calvinism OR Arminianism? Neither are Biblical. A steady diet of Arminian doctrine will eventually have someone questioning their eternal security in Christ when they struggle. Better to fully know what the Bible teaches about election and salvation, know why we are saved, then trust the Lord to keep us saved forever - better than worrying if I think I am a true believer but I crossed a line and now there is no hope for me or I lost my salvation and don't know if I can ever get it back again, or thinking that I need to persevere to keep it and never being sure I persevered enough in this life.

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Here is a good refutation of Arminianism and a prominent IFB pastor who preaches the Arminian doctrine of non-election:

https://silo.tips/download/it-is-obvious-that-choosing-that-election-and-that-foreknowlege-have-nothing-to

Brother Tony, what is "cheesy" about this well-written defense of doctrine of election in the Bible?  The author has written a Scripturally accurate refutation of Arminianism as preached by Pastor James Knox who rejects and mocks consulting the Greek or Hebrew to understand the words of the KJV

Excerpt:

Quote # 1 “It is obvious that choosing, that election, and that foreknowlege, have nothing to do with salvation of a man’s soul.”

Refutation # 1: This is totally false. When a preacher disregards the words of God, when a preacher omits the task of doing his exegisis, when a preacher refrains himself from defining the words, he becomes the ultimate authority over his hearers. When this unfortunate practice is used, the preaching, instead of being a blessing, is turned into confusion. Some people did exactly that during the apostolic ministry, twisting sound doctrine to fit their own concepts. As those early misguided people were rebuked by the apostles, so Pr. Knox must be rebuked also because of this sorry mishandling of the word of God. Pr. Knox used 3 texts to come up with this nonsense quoted above.

The first is John 6:70 when the Lord Jesus Christ said that he chose the twelve apostles and one of them was the devil. Pr. Knox concludes then, with his childish logic, that:

  1. 1. If Judas was chosen by the Lord Jesus Christ;
  2. 2. If Judas went to perdition;
  3. 3. Then all choosing by God is not unto salvation.

The logical fallacy here is easily recognized because we have the same word (chosen), which has two or more senses, being falsely restricted to only one explanation by Pr. Knox. We have the two first premises, restricted to Judas, which cannot lead to an universal conclusion. Let us examine some verses with the verb “chosen” to clarify the issue:

  1. “Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?” (John 6:70 KJV)
  2. “I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.” (John 13:18 KJV)
  3. “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.” (John 15:16 KJV)
  4. “If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.” (John 15:19 KJV)

Let us clear the passage and explain what Pr. Knox failed to do.

The Lord Jesus Christ did choose the twelve apostles. Eleven of them were chosen positively unto salvation (John 18:9) and unto the ministry (Luke 6:13) of apostleship. Little is explained about the lives of the eleven apostles before the choosing of the Lord, but we know they were taking care of their lives with no showing signs of salvation whatsoever (Mt. 4:18-22; 10:2-4) . The simultaneous choosing to salvation and to the ministry was done also in the same way with the apostle Paul (Ac. 9:6, 15; 22:14; 26:16). Judas, however, was not chosen positively unto salvation, but to be an apostle only. The process is the same to both 2 categories of people: the eleven saved apostles at one side and the traitor at the other, but the purpose , nature and destiny of the choosing the two groups were totally different. When The Lord Jesus speaks of election unto salvation he excluded the traitor: “I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen...” (John 13:18). God indeed performed His purpose in the choosing of Judas according to John 13:18; 17:12 and Ac. 1:16. It was to fulfill God’s purpose expressed in Bible prophecy and the revelation of the counsel of God’s will (At. 4:23; Ro. 9:22) that is: to make certain all the events leading to the fulfillment of Christ’s redemption to guarantee the eternal salvation to the elect through the crucifiction.

Let us do what Pr. Knox omitted to do:

The verb “chosen” in all the verses above, including Ac. 9:15, is eklegomai which simply means what it says, “to make a choice” among many options, through calling, or simply: “to call out of”. The particle ek is a preposition meaning “out of”; legomai is from the verb lego meaning “to call”. The verb is eklegomai and the associated adjective is ekklektos which are the ones who receive the action of eklegomai (being chosen). The expression “the chosen ones” or “elect” are used interchangebly in the Bible. Foreknowlege of God is an action of relationship and not mere previous knowlege as arminians misdefine. We conclude therefore, that the verb “chosen” which is the same as “election” has everything to do with the salvation of a man’s soul. This is the exact opposite of what Pr. Knox said... His declarations are wrong and misleading and should not be taken seriously by God’s people.

5 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

By the way, have you posted an introduction in the welcome section yet? We'd like to know a bit more about you.

Yes, I have posted an introduction of myself and my work here:

https://onlinebaptist.com/profile/32513-barbara-ann/

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5 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

Question to you in all sincerity....I've clicked on all of your links in your posts, and it's starting to look to me like you're here to do nothing more than advertise these cheesy, cheap looking religious sites. Just an observation, but I would like clarification. Just what IS your purpose here? Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with the information ON the sites, but, I've found in the past, through having forums of my own, that people who come in and start the way you have usually have an alterior motive By the way, have you posted an introduction in the welcome section yet? We'd like to know a bit more about you. Thanks. 🙂

 

5 hours ago, BrotherTony said:

I've found in the past, through having forums of my own, that people who come in and start the way you have usually have an alterior motive.

My ulterior motive is to inform the Body of Christ. 

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On 2/5/2020 at 7:54 PM, Scott Lyons said:

Both Calvinism and Arminianism are heresy! I believe the Bible! Both Calvinism and Arminianism are false gospels that must be avoided! They are both form the pit of hell!!!

Why would you say such a thing.?

What do you see as heresy?

Do you think you might be over reacting?

On 4/25/2020 at 7:28 AM, mbkjpreacher said:

Real Baptists are neither Calvinists nor Arminians but are Biblicists 

Do you think that is historically accurate?

Spurgeon was a real baptist.

Anyone can claim the title biblicist, and i have seen cult members make the same claim.

When we start to post what we understand from scripture, it identifies who and what you are.

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6 minutes ago, Iconoclast said:

Why would you say such a thing.?

What do you see as heresy?

Do you think you might be over reacting?

Do you think that is historically accurate?

Spurgeon was a real baptist.

Anyone can claim the title biblicist, and i have seen cult members make the same claim.

When we start to post what we understand from scripture, it identifies who and what you are.

Anyone can claim the title Biblicist, but he has to prove it.  Spurgeon is a Baptist and yet you have to prove that he is right in all aspects of beliefs.  To be a Biblicist does not mean you have to take man or any human writing as the basis of your beliefs but rely solely on the Bible as the basis of your beliefs. 

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On 5/22/2020 at 2:56 PM, heartstrings said:

It's not what we think but what the Bible says. The Bible says that "God so loved the world" not some of the world. The Bible says that "God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked". The Bible says that "God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance". The Bible documents that people can hear the Gospel, be convicted, and then reject it of their own free will. And God has documented that He loves people who He knows will reject Him. I can give you more but I'm kind of busy right now.

Does Jn 3:15-18 say the whole world will be saved? or is it everyone  believing ?

 

God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked, nevertheless they will go into second death.

God is certainly willing that many perish, He says so in Mt7: 

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

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BOTH Calvinism AND Arminianism ARE heresy as they both contradict the Bible. On some doctrines and issues, the solution is somewhere in the middle, and on some other issues they are nowhere close to the truth. Better to steer clear of both sets of doctrine and search the Scriptures themselves, without trying to force each passage into a particular box.

If I understand what was posted in a thread or two before mine (I skimmed over it and did not read it all), election and predestination have nothing to do with us being or becoming saved - but have to do with being God's people once we have trusted the Saviour, and in having an inheritance and certain things predestined to happen to us (like being conformed to the image of Christ and having a home in Heaven), not being predestined to Heaven or Hell or being predestined to be saved or lost.

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On 5/22/2020 at 6:21 PM, Scott Lyons said:

Calvinism and Arminianism are both heresy because they backload works into the gospel! Anyone preaching Calvinism or Arminianism is accursed and must be marked and avoided as per Romans 16:17-18! Calvinism and Arminianism can not save and will not save!!!

Sorry, but this is just not so.

Where are you getting such ideas?

Can you describe these teachings? can you show or demonstrate any of these claims?

You are sweeping aside millions of christian brothers???

 

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3 minutes ago, Iconoclast said:

God is certainly willing that many perish, He says so in Mt7: 

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You are making the Bible contradict itself. 2 Peter 3:9 says He is not willing that any perish - but He does give everyone the choice to receive or reject the truth. Matthew 7 is not stating God's "will" (ie His desire) but stating what is going to happen eventually.

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6 minutes ago, mbkjpreacher said:

Anyone can claim the title Biblicist, but he has to prove it.  Spurgeon is a Baptist and yet you have to prove that he is right in all aspects of beliefs.  To be a Biblicist does not mean you have to take man or any human writing as the basis of your beliefs but rely solely on the Bible as the basis of your beliefs. 

Hello Mb, 

I find many claim that title, but fail to own up to it.

1 minute ago, Jerry said:

You are making the Bible contradict itself. 2 Peter 3:9 says He is not willing that any perish - but He does give everyone the choice to receive or reject the truth. Matthew 7 is not stating God's "will" (ie His desire) but stating what is going to happen eventually.

Hello Jerry, 

Thank you for your response.

I do not believe the bible has any contradictions.

A careful examination of 2Pet 3 shows that everyone peter is speaking of will be saved.

He contrasts those who scoff and Mock, with those God is saving.

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