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Great signs and fearful sights in the heavens


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3 hours ago, Invicta said:

No the final judgement.

 

When the ozone layer burns the sun will burn the earth.

Revelation 16:8-9

8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.

9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

 

Isaiah 30:25-26

25 And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.

26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

Edited by Eric Stahl
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 Now, why do I believe another planet will be the apparent cause of the disasters? First, God said He'll send strong delusion on the followers of the beast, so they won't believe, so they'll have a secular explanation for the disasters - "bad luck, poor karma", etc.  Second, meteors, comets, eclipses, etc. are not unusual sights & are not fear-inspiring to most people. The signs/sights in the sky will be quite unusual. Also, Jesus said the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. This begs the question, "What is meant by 'powers of the heavens'?" Those "powers" are the apparent courses celestial objects follow in the sky, including the regular rising/setting of the sun, etc. Another planet's approach would alter earth's rotation on its axis and also the axial tilt. 

  This has happened before, as it's been proven that the year was once only 360 days long, from both Scripture & secular records worldwide.

Edited by robycop3
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1 hour ago, robycop3 said:

Now, why do I believe the year was once only 360 days long.. This begs the question, cause of the disasters? 

First, God said strone.

I believe This will be quite unusual. 

This has happened before.

including the regular rising/setting for the disasters -

it's been proven

What is meant by 'powers of the heavens'?"

they'll have a secular explanation

meteors, comets, eclipses, bad luck, poor karma", etc.

The signs/sights in the sky will be the regular rising/setting of the sun

 

Those are your words, and that's what I believe you said, and my audience wants to hear it.

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  The ancient peoples didn't miscalculate the length of the year by 5 1/4 days. had they done so, their agricultural seasons would be off by a month in only 5 years.

 

   Seems the year & month were made into their current lengths in the time of Hezekiah, late 700s BC when God caused the sun to move retrograde for a time.(2 kings 20:11) This event was noted in China as a long night. In North America, the Pawnee Indians have a legend that the sun had started to rise, but saw a hare waiting to entrap mim, so he retreated for awhile til the hare grew tired & left.  There had been about 15 years of confusion about the lengths of the year & month before that worldwide, and that's some of why the Romans had names for only ten months for awhile.(December refers to TENTH, not twelth.)

 

    I believe  similar events will happen again, at the end of the great trib as part of the great cosmological disturbance Jesus prophesied in Matt. 24:29-30.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

You do know that the Hebrews add an extra month every coupla years or so to make up for the difference between the solar year and the lunar year don't you?

 

And by the way, the Roman months that don't relate to their position in the year are more than December.

SEPTember - 7th - 9th month.

OCTober - 8th - 10th month.

NOvember - 9th - 11th month.

And the reason they are out of place is because of vain Ceasars, like Augustus, adding in a month for himself.....

 

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51 minutes ago, DaveW said:

You do know that the Hebrews add an extra month every coupla years or so to make up for the difference between the solar year and the lunar year don't you?[/quote]

  Yes. When the actual solar & lunar timing was changed, the Hebrews, rather than making a new calendar,  altered their old one. Many jews still refer to the last 5 days of their year, and 6 days in "leap years" as "intercalary" days, or "days of nothing".

 

And by the way, the Roman months that don't relate to their position in the year are more than December.

SEPTember - 7th - 9th month.

OCTober - 8th - 10th month.

NOvember - 9th - 11th month.

And the reason they are out of place is because of vain Ceasars, like Augustus, adding in a month for himself.....

  Right. But for awhile there were only 10 months in their calendar, some with 35 or 36 days. Before that, they had 12 months of 30 days each with the 360-day year, as did the rest of the world.

    BTW, have you ever heard the theory that the earth & Mars once used to have close encounters every 15 years for awhile, and that's why the surface of Mars loox like an artillery range, once having gigantic volcanoes, with earth's much-greater gravity doing the damage as well as stripping away most of Mars' atmosphere, also  causing Mars' rotation & axial tilt to be similar to ours? That theory also says the last close encounter caused the earth to wobble retrograde briefly & caused earthquakes & volcanoes to occur in various places. It also slung the lighter Mars into its current orbit.

  It's very possible God could use another planet-size body to bring about the plagues of the great trib.

  However, I don't believe any of this is set in stone, of course. The only things that are sure is that these events will occur, precisely as written in their original languages.

 

51 minutes ago, DaveW said:

 

 

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I've heard all sorts of weird and totally unsubstantiated theories.... some of them very recently.....

The fact is that the reason for the 360 day year has nothing to do with a "change" in anything - it is to do with the difference between the lunar and solar years.... that's it.

Nothing to do with any sort of weird theory.....

.

Edited by DaveW
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2 hours ago, DaveW said:

I've heard all sorts of weird and totally unsubstantiated theories.... some of them very recently.....

The fact is that the reason for the 360 day year has nothing to do with a "change" in anything - it is to do with the difference between the lunar and solar years.... that's it.

Nothing to do with any sort of weird theory.....

.

 Well, really, it's because the solar year was once only 360 days long. A little reminder - the ancient people all over the world were  very dependent upon agriculture & animan husbandry for their survival, and  if their seasons became off by a month,  disaster would've resulted. They counted the days & observed the shadows of sunrise/sunset to determine the solstices. Naturally, the solar year was more-important to them than was the lunar year.

 

  At my home, looking out a certain window, the sun sets behind a utility pole to our southwest at winter solstice, with sunset being a little more northerly each day til the summer solstice when it sets exactly behind the chimney of a building to our northwest. (opposite of your solstices in Australia)

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  • 5 months later...

  The destruction of the ozone layer by man is mostly another New-age-Liberal fake alarm. Anyone who's been around an arc welder in use has smelled ozone within a wide radius around it I work in a steel mill with electric-arc furnaces, and a large amount of ozone is generated from them. Tanning booths make a quantity of ozone. Lightning produces it.(At any time, there over 100 lightning flashes a second occurring worldwide.)And, of course, the main source is the sun, shining over more than half the atmosphere 24/7. If something were to destroy the entire ozone layer in an instant, it would be renewed within hours.

 

  A time when the sun did indeed scorch places on earth occurred during the cosmic disturbance which  temporarily glommed up the earth's rotation in Hezekiah's time, 700s BC, causing the sun to appear to move retrograde as per 2 Kings 20:11. This event was recorded all over earth, as a long night by the Chinese, with retrograde star movement. But some Greex & Ethiopians also described some scorching of the earth at that time. Apparently, the disturbance moved parts of the atmosphere aside temporarily as well as wobbling the world on its axis.

 

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On 3/17/2019 at 7:59 AM, DaveW said:

You do know that the Hebrews add an extra month every coupla years or so to make up for the difference between the solar year and the lunar year don't you?

 

And by the way, the Roman months that don't relate to their position in the year are more than December.

SEPTember - 7th - 9th month.

OCTober - 8th - 10th month.

NOvember - 9th - 11th month.

And the reason they are out of place is because of vain Ceasars, like Augustus, adding in a month for himself.....

 

 Well, actually, Dave, adding to the calendar (intercalary days, "days of nothing") didn't become necessary ti the 700s BC after the sun went retrograde for Hezekiah. And  for awhile after that, about 15 years, there were only 10 months according to the solar cycle. After that, the year once again became 12 months.

 

  BTW, the "terrible ones" of Isaiah 25:4-5 & 29:5 were called "maruts" by the Persians, as well as 'terrible ones'. They were associated with the planet Mars by the Persians, & it seems they were balls of fire that fell to earth. This phenomenon was associated with the disturbance that wobbled earth on its axis as per Isaiah 38:8 & 2 Kings 20:11. Apparently, the planet Mars was the agent God employed for this work. It explains why there was an unnatural fear of both Mars & Venus for centuries, while both are quite-harmless & beautiful today.

Edited by robycop3
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
18 minutes ago, robycop3 said:

Well, actually, dave, adding to the calendar (intercalary days, "days of nothing") didn't become necessary ti the 700s BC after the sun went retrograde for Hezekiah. And  for awhile after that, about 15 years, there were only 10 months according to the solar cycle. After that, the year once again became 12 months.

Proof please? Any evidence to substantiate these claims...…. Preferably Biblical evidence... that's kinda important to me and a few others on this site.

 

Isa 38:8 KJV
(8)  Behold, I will bring again the shadow of the degrees, which is gone down in the sun dial of Ahaz, ten degrees backward. So the sun returned ten degrees, by which degrees it was gone down.
2Ki 20:11 KJV
(11)  And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the LORD: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz.

I see no mention of a "wobble" in either of those passages, nor do I see mention of balls of fire.

In fact, the ten degrees backwards is associated with the healing of Hezekiah, and according to those Biblical passages has nothing to do with fireballs, Mars, or Venus.

And it would seem that Hezekiah was an Israelite, not a Persian, so why bring them into it?????

 

21 minutes ago, robycop3 said:

BTW, the "terrible ones" of Isaiah 25:4-5 & 29:5 were called "maruts" by the Persians, as well as 'terrible ones'. They were associated with the planet Mars by the Persians, & it seems they were balls of fire that fell to earth. This phenomenon was associated with the disturbance that wobbled earth on its axis as per Isaiah 38:8 & 2 Kings 20:11. Apparently, the planet Mars was the agent God employed for this work. It explains why there was an unnatural fear of both Mars & Venus for centuries, while both are quite-harmless & beautiful today.

 

 

Isa 25:4-5 KJV
(4)  For thou hast been a strength to the poor, a strength to the needy in his distress, a refuge from the storm, a shadow from the heat, when the blast of the terrible ones is as a storm against the wall.
(5)  Thou shalt bring down the noise of strangers, as the heat in a dry place; even the heat with the shadow of a cloud: the branch of the terrible ones shall be brought low.
 

Isa 29:5 KJV
(5)  Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust, and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly.
 

If the Persians had some "terrible ones" that were associated with fireballs, then I would suggest that they were TOTALLY DIFFERENT to the "terrible ones" mentioned in these passages.

Where do you get this stuff from?

Do you just make it up?

Because it certainly doesn't seem to be very biblical.

 

And by the way, I don't know where you get this "Unnatural fear of Mars and Venus" from - the Romans worshipped them as gods, the Greeks also, although they had other names for them, and the Norse also - different names again. But Venus especially was not feared, being the goddess of love and all that...…...

Your made up stuff doesn't even make sense outside of the Bible let alone within it.....

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  Well, the shadow didn't move because the sundial did! And why does the sun appear to move? Cuz the earth rotates! And therefore when it appeared to move backwards, the earth's rotation had to have been disturbed.

  Try READING some detailed history boox & the works of Immanuel Velikovsky, among other things. I figure they're available in Australia.  And the maruts were also Hindu storm gods. Did you bang your head against Uluru a few too many times?

 

 

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6 hours ago, robycop3 said:

  Well, the shadow didn't move because the sundial did! And why does the sun appear to move? Cuz the earth rotates! And therefore when it appeared to move backwards, the earth's rotation had to have been disturbed.

  Try READING some detailed history boox & the works of Immanuel Velikovsky, among other things. I figure they're available in Australia.  And the maruts were also Hindu storm gods. Did you bang your head against Uluru a few too many times?

I believe the scripture not pagan writers.

Scripture only says the shadow went backwards.  This seemed to affect only Judah as the Babylonians came to see what had happened in the land.  Of course this could have been the recovery of Hezekiah.

 

Edited by Invicta
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8 hours ago, robycop3 said:

  Well, the shadow didn't move because the sundial did! And why does the sun appear to move? Cuz the earth rotates! And therefore when it appeared to move backwards, the earth's rotation had to have been disturbed.

  Try READING some detailed history boox & the works of Immanuel Velikovsky, among other things. I figure they're available in Australia.  And the maruts were also Hindu storm gods. Did you bang your head against Uluru a few too many times?

 

 

I never disagreed that the earth 's rotation was affected, but it was not a "wobble". Nothing mentioned indicates a wobble. It mentions a specifically defined rotation event.

It nowhere mentions any after effects of this rotation, not for 15 years, not for 15 minutes.

It doesn't mention a change to the calendar because of it.

Your whole post has nothing to do with the verses you posted - I suspect you where hoping no one would bother to look them up.

And again, as Jerry just said - I believe the Scripture rather than the musings of some unbelieving writer writing history for their own ends.

As to "banging my head against Uluru.... that is just an offensive personal attack meant to demean me personally in the hope that people will ignore the lack of anything Biblical in your answer as they laugh at me.

Shame on you.

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On 8/24/2019 at 10:41 PM, robycop3 said:

  Well, the shadow didn't move because the sundial did! And why does the sun appear to move? Cuz the earth rotates! And therefore when it appeared to move backwards, the earth's rotation had to have been disturbed.

  Try READING some detailed history boox & the works of Immanuel Velikovsky, among other things. I figure they're available in Australia.  And the maruts were also Hindu storm gods. Did you bang your head against Uluru a few too many times?

 

 

And can I also point out that aside from trying to demean me personally, you still have not used any Scriptural evidence nor even relevant scripture reference, nor in fact have you provided any OTHER evidence apart from telling me to go read stuff.

But what you are ignorant of is that I DO READ and have read other stuff aside from the Bible, but I DON'T READ crackpot historical rewrites who promote all sorts of unbiblical theories.

And I can spell - aside from phone spelling mistakes caused by big fingers on small buttons and autocorrect.

You constantly make statements with no evidence that are non-biblical and sometimes anti-biblical and often even historically wrong and sometimes quite oddball, and then you demean me for not reading your wonky sources which you only reveal when pressed......

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Why would I read a guy whose description is as follows:

"Immanuel Velikovsky was a Russian independent scholar who wrote a number of books reinterpreting the events of ancient history, in particular the US bestseller Worlds in Collision published in 1950."

And he was a psychiatrist......

Why would any Christian put any store in a worldly psychiatrist who is known for REINTERPRETING history??????

Let that sink in for a moment folks and then realise that this is the calibre of source that this guy is referencing when he makes these "intelligent sounding" statements.

2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

 

I know where I put my trust, and it is not in a worldly wise man known for rewriting history......

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  • 1 month later...
On 8/26/2019 at 1:07 AM, DaveW said:

And can I also point out that aside from trying to demean me personally, you still have not used any Scriptural evidence nor even relevant scripture reference, nor in fact have you provided any OTHER evidence apart from telling me to go read stuff.

But what you are ignorant of is that I DO READ and have read other stuff aside from the Bible, but I DON'T READ crackpot historical rewrites who promote all sorts of unbiblical theories.

And I can spell - aside from phone spelling mistakes caused by big fingers on small buttons and autocorrect.

You constantly make statements with no evidence that are non-biblical and sometimes anti-biblical and often even historically wrong and sometimes quite oddball, and then you demean me for not reading your wonky sources which you only reveal when pressed......

  So, please tell me what's non-Biblical about the retreat of the shadow of the sundial of Ahaz by 10 degrees, as Scripture says ??????????????????  And the Books of the Kings in Scripture deal with the history of the kings of Israel & Judah, not the resta the world.

  Now, we must apply some common sense here. Why did the shadow retreat by 10 degrees? Because the sun appeared to move retrograde. Why did the sun appear to move retrograde? Because the earth did. 

  And the event would occur worldwide, obviously. But again, the Books of the Kings in Scripture were written only about Israel & Judah. However, secular chroniclers worldwide noted this event, along with other phenomena that occurred then. And obviously, intel from 2700 years ago will be spotty. But we can't just dismiss those ancient secular writings as apocryphal, especially as they match Scripture.

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On 10/5/2019 at 1:58 PM, robycop3 said:

  So, please tell me what's non-Biblical about the retreat of the shadow of the sundial of Ahaz by 10 degrees, as Scripture says ??????????????????  And the Books of the Kings in Scripture deal with the history of the kings of Israel & Judah, not the resta the world.

  Now, we must apply some common sense here. Why did the shadow retreat by 10 degrees? Because the sun appeared to move retrograde. Why did the sun appear to move retrograde? Because the earth did. 

  And the event would occur worldwide, obviously. But again, the Books of the Kings in Scripture were written only about Israel & Judah. However, secular chroniclers worldwide noted this event, along with other phenomena that occurred then. And obviously, intel from 2700 years ago will be spotty. But we can't just dismiss those ancient secular writings as apocryphal, especially as they match Scripture.

If the sun went backwards, then scripture would have said so.  It doesn't say that.  

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  • 3 months later...

  It just says God moved the shadow, not HOW He moved it.

2 Kings 20:11 And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the Lord: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz.

 

  Now, COMMON SENSE says that, for the shadow to move, either the clock or the sun would hafta move ! And there's no historical record of the clock's having moved, but there ARE legendary tales of the sun's having appeared to have moved retrograde. One of them is the Greek story of Phaeton, who tried to drive the chariot of the sun, but couldn't control it. Another is a legend among the Pawnee Indians of North America about the sun's starting to rise, but, seeing a trap set for him, retreated for awhile.

 

  Now, while there was an earthquake in the area during the time of Uzziah,  Hezekiah's great-grandpa,  which left evidence still around today, there was none recorded during Hez's time when the shadow event occurred.

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On 2/15/2020 at 2:08 PM, robycop3 said:

  It just says God moved the shadow, not HOW He moved it.

2 Kings 20:11 And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the Lord: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz.

 

  Now, COMMON SENSE says that, for the shadow to move, either the clock or the sun would hafta move ! And there's no historical record of the clock's having moved, but there ARE legendary tales of the sun's having appeared to have moved retrograde. One of them is the Greek story of Phaeton, who tried to drive the chariot of the sun, but couldn't control it. Another is a legend among the Pawnee Indians of North America about the sun's starting to rise, but, seeing a trap set for him, retreated for awhile.

 

  Now, while there was an earthquake in the area during the time of Uzziah,  Hezekiah's great-grandpa,  which left evidence still around today, there was none recorded during Hez's time when the shadow event occurred.

 

Common sense says that God deflected the sun's rays.

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