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The Biblical Tithe: Cash or Crops?


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Since I don't have a garden and I don't think it's appropriate for my pastor to be dressed in the skins I would sew together, I've decided to give him cash. I'm sure non-tithers are providing garden v

The point isn't in the tithing, it is in the giving. Nowhere in the New Testament (which does not include the 4 gospels as those were still OT under the law), is tithing ever endorsed. It is only ment

Not only do we disagree with you, but the Bible disagrees with you as well. I wouldn't have published the book if the Bible taught monetary tithing.  

But this, now, would be considered pragmatism. That would be fine if no other principle was taught. However, the OT taught clearly that a 'tithe' was of meat and crops, while a freewill offering could

Yep. Right on schedule...

O where are the reapers that garner in The sheaves of the good from the fields of sin? With sickles of truth must the work be done, And no one may rest till the harvest home.

And the reason why any "discussion" of this subject on this forum is fruitless.  And since no fruit comes from it, there is no need to tithe from it. 

The Biblical agricultural tithes which God commanded for the children of Israel (farmers and herders) were to FEED the tribe of Levi during their time of service working in the tabernacle (not in the

Where did I say that one who doesn't tithe is robbing God? I did not even imply that in any way, shape or form. (and, honestly, you don't know how Abraham would have been seen today re: robbing God ha

The first century AD Church had 3,000 added to it in one day.  Funny thing, thirty-six years later, when the Epistles of John were written, there were still house churches.  I don't recall a single

I didn't say YOU were silly, I said your assumption is silly, and you did, indeed, make the assumption, though it may not have been intentional, it is how it came across. You said "Don't you non-tithe

Many, in their zeal to defend their monetary tithe teaching pastors, will be quick to state that “They didn’t have money in ancient Israel, so they tithed crops and livestock.”  

The Proper Teaching of Malachi 3:7-11 by Ronald W Robey The proper teaching from Malachi 3:7-11 should be that tithing was an ordinance (v.7) given to national Israel, not to the Church. (Lev.

This non tither no longer gives anything to any religious institution that lies about what God's commanded tithe is.  God's Church is built on the truths written and spoken by the Apostles and Prop

Hardly.  When we did not tithe we were chastened and missed out on many blessings.  Now that we do tithe our cup runneth over.  You should try it sometime.

Nope... we meet in a home.  Cuts out a lot of overhead, since we are already paying the electric bill ourselves. Even if we were in a big building, we wouldn't be lying to our congregation in order

Here is a video where I was interviewed when my book, "The Biblical Tithe: Cash or Crops?" went to the Publishers.

No, I don't speak in tongues.  Nor do I do the "slain in the Spirit" thing. I got out of the Pentecostal movement the same year I was ordained. (approximately 4 months after) I have been Indepen

As to the "slain in the Spirit" thing, I often tell people, "If ever I am in a service and something like that starts happening, I hope I am standing behind one of those who are being "slain". If I

No, we don't have a website. What difference does it make where we "operate" or how many people are present  at a worship service?  Why are you so "into" numbers?  Whether there are five, ten, tw

Our tithes do sustain. We give to our church because we KNOW our Pastor is using it to pay the church building's rent, and provide a place for saints to assemble. Also, our church is growing. Hou

?????????????????????????????????? Trying to understand what this has to do with anything??????????????? There's not a church, Kingdom Hall or any other "place of worship" within 100 miles o

SFIC has a new book available for anyone interested. The Biblical Tithe:  Cash or Crops? https://www.createspace.com/7342426

Our church meets in a home...not a tabernacle.  We don't tithe, we give from the heart.  The biblical tithe was always agricultural, NEVER money! Church functions on grace and free will GIVING an

It is biblical to tithe... it's just not biblical to tithe money.  Nor is a monetary tithe requirement sermon biblical. As for Malachi 3:6-12, Malachi was admonishing the Priest's of Israel.  They

Here are my thoughts on the matter:    I believe it is biblical to tithe.     I haven't found any Scripture in the NT where God says, Stop tithing, do not give to your biblical, lo

Just out of interest, what church DO you attend and give to nowadays?  

We could indeed visit the "law of first mention"... It never fails, when teaching that tithe is a matter of the Law, someone is sure to argue it is not. (not saying anyone in this discussion said

Gotta say that's a neat way to direct condescending remarks at people and sidestep censure. No if someone told me my opinions were silly/stupid/idiotic or whatever, I'd take that as them calling me si

Exactly!  And to show how much the church preaches tithing as a Law (even though they point to Melchizedek) one only notice how they run to the Law to prove it must be done.  ...then there's the co

And people sacrificed cattle before the law, as well. The tithing that Abraham did before the law was a voluntary thing, but the tithing we usually point to in scripture for use today is all of t

It really doesn't matter what people in other lands did, or do for buying and selling, wages, etc, etc..  God's word is supposed to be the Christian's final authority in all matter of faith and pra

One reason that threads on this topic have been locked in the past is the manner in which folks address each other. Regardless of our "status" on OB, let's keep this discussion civil, or it, too, will

I make no such assumption. I have read that Biblical Tithing is the only form you may use. So the vegetables and animal skins is very realistic, for those who do not support tithe and giving above and

I agree with HC, this subject has been beaten to death. I, for one, do not need to hear the exact same words over and over again, I heard them the first time.

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1 hour ago, HappyChristian said:

Yep. Right on schedule...

And the reason why any "discussion" of this subject on this forum is fruitless. 

And since no fruit comes from it, there is no need to tithe from it. :laugh:

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On 26/07/2017 at 0:26 PM, This guy said:

Instead of giving to a church that teaches contrary to what God said His holy tithe is, we give to people in need in our network of friends.

Just out of interest, what church DO you attend and give to nowadays?

 

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Here are my thoughts on the matter:
 
 I believe it is biblical to tithe.
 
 
I haven't found any Scripture in the NT where God says, Stop tithing, do not give to your biblical, local, NT church.  Perhaps I missed something, but I've looked & can't find it.
 
"For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
 
Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?
 
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
 
Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
 
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
 
And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.
 
And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts." .....Malachi 3:6-12

The Bible says here, that they were cursed with a curse because they had not been paying their tithes, & because they had been robbing from God that which belonged to him. Notice He says, "Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in my house."
The storehouse is God's house, according to this scripture. Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, so that there will be meat or food in my house. He says if you do that, "I will open the windows of Heaven and pour you out a blessing that there shall not be room enough to receive."
He says, "I'll rebuke the devourer for your sake." What he's saying is that, people who would not give the tithe would have bad things happen to them to where it would end up costing them more money than it would've cost to just give the 10% unto the Lord that he wanted. In fact, that's what tithe means.
 
If you study the Bible, the word "tithe" and "tenth" are used interchangeably. Tithe simply means 10%. God expected man to give 10% of his increase, his income, what comes into his hand, unto the Lord. He says "I'll rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts." What God is saying here is that, He's able to make them prosper. He's able to make their crops grow better, and so forth; or He can allow these things to be cursed, dried out, & withered. What He's teaching here is that you're going to live better on 90% than you're going to live on 100%.
If you, in your own wisdom, think to yourself, "Well, I just can't afford to pay the tithe. I need all the money that I can get, to live off of." What God's saying is that, he can stretch your money further. He can bless you ... Pour out a blessing and give you abundance, whereas ... If you rob God and withhold the tithe, the opposite will be true. You can have unexpected expenses come up where you'll end up even worse off, financially.
 
The reason why (I think) people will scoff at this ... (Even though, the Bible is very clear. It's right there in Malachi 3. Anybody can see that that's what the Bible says) ... Is that there's a LOT of false teachers out there that don't care what the Bible says unless it makes them $, so they capitalize on it.... The televangelist crowd, the 'name it, claim it' prosperity preachers that are living in multi-million dollar homes ... They've got gold rings on their fingers, driving Jaguars or a Porsche & telling everybody, "Hey. If you give us money, God's going to bless you! You give a $100, you're going to get $1,000! If you give $1,000, you're going to get $10,000!".  The Joel Osteens, Benny Hinns, Jim & Tammy Faye Bakers, Joyce Meyers, etc.
 
Obviously, these people are liars, frauds, and charlatans. The problem is that then, people throw out the baby with the bathwater.
 
At the same time, we don't want to go to far in the other wrong direction, and not understand that God DOES bless you when you obey Him. It's a fact. If you obey God, He blesses you. This is one subject where that's true. In other subjects it's also true. Any time you're keeping God's commandments and doing the right thing, God's going to bless you. Where the prosperity crowd gets it wrong is, they don't tell you about all the trials, tribulations, and persecutions, and that you will possibly go through bad health. Look at Job, he's covered in sores from head to toe, and he was the most righteous man on the earth at that time. What was the latter end of Job? In the end, everything works out. In the end, he's blessed.
My pastor does not live in a big fancy mansion like the worldly false prophets that covet filthy lucre; he lives in a VERY modest home (1400 sqft +/-), despite having 8 children (9th on the way) and of course, his wife, & they live in a humble neighborhood. He is certainly NOT in it for the money.
 
He takes nothing from the government...no food stamps or free healthcare, he doesn't drive a jaguar or a Maserati; he shares a used, old van (the kind you rarely see anymore--the baby blue w/yellow stripes, metal ladder up the back, with the hideous OEM faux velvet curtains in the back windows that most people would rather take the commuter train than be seen in) with his wife, who stays home to guide the house & school their children, all of his suits are used (from secondhand thrift stores), our church building is plain....it's merely a very large suite rented out from an office strip, so there are no  beautiful stained glass windows, lush landscaping, ornate wooden pews to pay for, No stage or music room filled with elaborate instruments or impressive sound system---just an old piano needing tuned in the corner that was donated by the landlord's wife.  The pulpit was built by the Pastor himself, from a stack of 2x4s he paid $5 for from Craigslist, which he then stained with instant coffee(it looks quite nice, actually).
 
But our services every week are air-conditioned, we have lights, power, running water, our Pastor works around the clock, he writes his own sermons thrice weekly, preaches hard against sin, in season AND out, he rips face like the old school IFB, he teaches us how to be effective soulwinners & is out pounding the pavement with us weekly knocking doors, he doesn't allow queers in the congregation or tolerate fornication (if a couple are dating & are in fornication or living together unmarried he will give them 3 options: 1. If they claim to be in love & want to be together, they have 7 days to get married; 2. If they don't want to get married they must not live together & MUST stop fornicating; 3. If they refuse to get married or stop fornicating & stop living together then they must leave the church) adultery, divorce, false doctrine, he stands on the King James Bible only, he doesn't fold when persecution comes, and when homos are outside protesting he makes no apologies for the Word of God and preaches even harder.. EVERYTHING he preaches he proves with Scripture from the KJB, he encourages us to read our Bible daily & prove all things from Scripture.
 
He sells nothing. Everything is free. We give out a free King James Bible to every soul led to the Lord when out soulwinning, the fridge is always stocked with water, Gatorade, special snacks for the elderly/diabetics/pregnant or nursing moms. He offers the younger adult couples (that wish to marry, and are biblically eligible to) a  free wedding, decorates the church building, marries them, provides a free cake & free wedding photos, he provides every family a free annual family portrait, he provides church activities, like camping trips, baby showers for expectant mothers, free  CDs of his preaching, free USB drives of his sermons, he provides breakfast & buys lunch weekly to all that go soulwinning on Saturdays, the list goes on and on.
He is clear & open about church finances & hides nothing. He is a good steward of the tithes we give, & our church has never borrowed $, never had any debt.
He NEVER has fundraisers or asks us to "dig deep". He is one of the hardest workers I've ever met. He truly practices what he preaches in all aspects of his life and ministry, and that is rare these days, even amongst IFB.
 
My point is this:
Pastoring a church is a full-time job. It IS work. 
 
And it is a LOT more work than people think. Our pastor is CONSTANTLY working. It is also a HUGE responsibility, as any Bible-believing pastor knows that God is holding him accountable for the flock, and he will be chastened & held accountable by God more than the flock.
It takes MONEY to have a building for the church to meet at. If nobody tithes, how can the pastor support himself, his wife & kids (which is, by the way, a biblical requirement to pastoring a church--It must be a man, of one wife, with children, that ruleth his house well) ?
 
Our family has NO problem paying our tithe...and we actually have LESS financial problems since we started this church and tithed. Plus, we KNOW where it's going (our church building alone costs $6,000 a month to rent) and our pastor works harder than most any pastor I've known and the Bible says if a man works he has the right to eat and drink.
 
 

 

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It is biblical to tithe... it's just not biblical to tithe money.  Nor is a monetary tithe requirement sermon biblical.

As for Malachi 3:6-12, Malachi was admonishing the Priest's of Israel.  They had removed the agricultural tithes from the Temple storehouse and God wanted them back.

The passage had absolutely nothing to do with monetary tithing when Malachi delivered it to the Priest's, and it has nothing to do with monetary tithing today.  As verse six says...

I am the LORD God; I change not;..."
 

The last Book in the Old Testament section of our Bible holds many precious nuggets of truth that so many people today never realize are in there. They do not realize these nuggets are in Malachi for two reasons,..
 
1. Their Pastor’s do not tell them these nuggets of truth are in Malachi.
2. They themselves do not study the Bible as they should, but instead allow their Pastor’s to turn their eyes from these nuggets of truth..
 
Let us look at just a few of the nuggets we can find in the pages of the Book of Malachi, shall we?
 
a) The storehouse Malachi is speaking of is attached to the Temple in Jerusalem.
 
b) The Church that I pastor is not the storehouse Malachi was speaking of.
 
c) When Malachi said, that there may be meat in mine house,..." he was speaking of food... not money.  Not once in the Bible is money ever referred to as "meat"
.
d) Malachi is not saying to tithe your monetary income to God’s House. 
 
e) Malachi was speaking to a people living under the Mosaic/Levitic Law.
 
f) Malachi could not have been speaking of any other kind of tithe than that which was required by Mosaic/Levitic Law, i.e.; a tithe of agricultural crops, flocks and herds.
 
g) Malachi 1:6; & 2:1 reveal that Malachi was speaking to the corrupt Priest’s in Malachi 3:6-12.  He had a commandment for the Priest's.  That commandment is not seen until chapter three.
 
h) The tithes and offerings had been stolen by the Priest’s,… not by the congregation.  Both Numbers 18:21-26 & Nehemiah 10:37-38 reveal that the congregation could not tithe to the House of God.
 
i) When Pastor’s use Malachi to teach a monetary tithe, they are guilty of handling the word of God deceitfully.
 
j) The Priest’s of Israel were guilty of despising God’s name because they exchanged the best animals for lame and blind animals
 
k) Pastor’s that teach monetary tithing are guilty of despising God’s name because they have exchanged His commanded agricultural tithes for monetary tithes.
 
l) In doing things their own way instead of God’s way, the Priest’s of Israel were robbing God of His authority in their lives.
 
m) In doing things their own way instead of God’s way, the Priest’s of God had robbed the nation of Israel of God’s blessing.
 
n) In teaching their own way instead of God’s way, Pastor’s today are guilty of robbing God of His authority in their lives.
 
o) In teaching their own way instead of God’s way, Pastor’s today are guilty of robbing God of His authority in the lives of their congregations.
 
p) In doing things their own way instead of God’s way, Pastor’s are guilty of robbing their congregations of God’s blessing.
 
q) When Malachi promised that God would open the windows of Heaven, Malachi was speaking clouds giving rain to the land of Israel so that plants could grow
 
r) The devourer that Malachi was speaking of was the locust.
 
There are many, many more precious and wonderful nuggets written within the four chapters of the Book of Malachi. I encourage you to take time to study this Book and allow the Holy Spirit to reveal them to you.
 
1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
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On 29/07/2017 at 8:50 PM, DaveW said:

Just out of interest, what church DO you attend and give to nowadays?

 

Just interested....

And note that I didn't say "tithe to". 

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6 hours ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

It is biblical to tithe... it's just not biblical to tithe money.  Nor is a monetary tithe requirement sermon biblical.

As for Malachi 3:6-12, Malachi was admonishing the Priest's of Israel.  They had removed the agricultural tithes from the Temple storehouse and God wanted them back.

The passage had absolutely nothing to do with monetary tithing when Malachi delivered it to the Priest's, and it has nothing to do with monetary tithing today.  As verse six says...

I am the LORD God; I change not;..."
 

The last Book in the Old Testament section of our Bible holds many precious nuggets of truth that so many people today never realize are in there. They do not realize these nuggets are in Malachi for two reasons,..
 
1. Their Pastor’s do not tell them these nuggets of truth are in Malachi.
2. They themselves do not study the Bible as they should, but instead allow their Pastor’s to turn their eyes from these nuggets of truth..
 
Let us look at just a few of the nuggets we can find in the pages of the Book of Malachi, shall we?
 
a) The storehouse Malachi is speaking of is attached to the Temple in Jerusalem.
 
b) The Church that I pastor is not the storehouse Malachi was speaking of.
 
c) When Malachi said, that there may be meat in mine house,..." he was speaking of food... not money.  Not once in the Bible is money ever referred to as "meat"
.
d) Malachi is not saying to tithe your monetary income to God’s House. 
 
e) Malachi was speaking to a people living under the Mosaic/Levitic Law.
 
f) Malachi could not have been speaking of any other kind of tithe than that which was required by Mosaic/Levitic Law, i.e.; a tithe of agricultural crops, flocks and herds.
 
g) Malachi 1:6; & 2:1 reveal that Malachi was speaking to the corrupt Priest’s in Malachi 3:6-12.  He had a commandment for the Priest's.  That commandment is not seen until chapter three.
 
h) The tithes and offerings had been stolen by the Priest’s,… not by the congregation.  Both Numbers 18:21-26 & Nehemiah 10:37-38 reveal that the congregation could not tithe to the House of God.
 
i) When Pastor’s use Malachi to teach a monetary tithe, they are guilty of handling the word of God deceitfully.
 
j) The Priest’s of Israel were guilty of despising God’s name because they exchanged the best animals for lame and blind animals
 
k) Pastor’s that teach monetary tithing are guilty of despising God’s name because they have exchanged His commanded agricultural tithes for monetary tithes.
 
l) In doing things their own way instead of God’s way, the Priest’s of Israel were robbing God of His authority in their lives.
 
m) In doing things their own way instead of God’s way, the Priest’s of God had robbed the nation of Israel of God’s blessing.
 
n) In teaching their own way instead of God’s way, Pastor’s today are guilty of robbing God of His authority in their lives.
 
o) In teaching their own way instead of God’s way, Pastor’s today are guilty of robbing God of His authority in the lives of their congregations.
 
p) In doing things their own way instead of God’s way, Pastor’s are guilty of robbing their congregations of God’s blessing.
 
q) When Malachi promised that God would open the windows of Heaven, Malachi was speaking clouds giving rain to the land of Israel so that plants could grow
 
r) The devourer that Malachi was speaking of was the locust.
 
There are many, many more precious and wonderful nuggets written within the four chapters of the Book of Malachi. I encourage you to take time to study this Book and allow the Holy Spirit to reveal them to you.
 
1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

So your church meets in a tabernacle & offers agricultural tithes?

How does your church function from mere carrots and peas? Is that how you pay your mortgage as well?

Even Jesus had a treasurer.

You didn't address anything I said about the church costing money to operate.

Edited by BabeinChrist
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4 hours ago, BabeinChrist said:

So your church meets in a tabernacle & offers agricultural tithes?

How does your church function from mere carrots and peas? Is that how you pay your mortgage as well?

Even Jesus had a treasurer.

You didn't address anything I said about the church costing money to operate.

Our church meets in a home...not a tabernacle.  We don't tithe, we give from the heart.  The biblical tithe was always agricultural, NEVER money!

Church functions on grace and free will GIVING and we pay our own rent and utilities.  Giving and tithing are not the same....giving is a "heart" principle and tithing is an ordinance of the Mosaic law. 

All you said was how wonderful your pastor is and how everything was free.....then you turn around and say your rent is $6,000 a month.  Ever hear about free will and grace giving???  Since biblical tithing was never money, the purpose of the biblical tithe (which was always agricultural from the land of Canaan/Israel) was never meant for paying bills, but to sustain the tribe of Levi. 

Edited by LindaR
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4 hours ago, BabeinChrist said:

So your church meets in a tabernacle & offers agricultural tithes?

How does your church function from mere carrots and peas? Is that how you pay your mortgage as well?

Even Jesus had a treasurer.

You didn't address anything I said about the church costing money to operate.

Nope... we meet in a home.  Cuts out a lot of overhead, since we are already paying the electric bill ourselves.

Even if we were in a big building, we wouldn't be lying to our congregation in order to garner finances to pay the bills.  Instead, we would do what I did in the last two churches I pastored... we would tell them when a bill came in and how much it is.  Then, we would pray, asking God to move hearts to give what they could afford.  And we would exercise our faith, believing God would move hearts. 

Worked with the church in Virginia, and with the one in North Carolina as well.  Pretty sure, it would work here in Mississippi too.  Lies about tithes weren't necessary.  We teach people the joy of giving.  Forced giving breeds contempt.

Jesus did have a Treasurer.  However, neither He, nor His Treasurer, collected tithes of His Disciples.

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10 hours ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

I am Pastor of Set at Liberty Baptist.  We are an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church in Cleveland, MS.

What Church do you attend?

Do you have a website?

1 hour ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

Nope... we meet in a home.  Cuts out a lot of overhead, since we are already paying the electric bill ourselves.

Even if we were in a big building, we wouldn't be lying to our congregation in order to garner finances to pay the bills.  Instead, we would do what I did in the last two churches I pastored... we would tell them when a bill came in and how much it is.  Then, we would pray, asking God to move hearts to give what they could afford.  And we would exercise our faith, believing God would move hearts. 

Worked with the church in Virginia, and with the one in North Carolina as well.  Pretty sure, it would work here in Mississippi too.  Lies about tithes weren't necessary.  We teach people the joy of giving.  Forced giving breeds contempt.

Jesus did have a Treasurer.  However, neither He, nor His Treasurer, collected tithes of His Disciples.

So you operate  out of your home?

That explains a lot.

Is your home big enough to assemble 300 people?

Do you go soulwinning?

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3 hours ago, BabeinChrist said:

 

Is your home big enough to assemble 300 people?

 

??????????????????????????????????

Trying to understand what this has to do with anything???????????????

There's not a church, Kingdom Hall or any other "place of worship" within 100 miles of where I am that ever have more than 125 in the building AT ALL!

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1 hour ago, LindaR said:

Our church meets in a home...not a tabernacle.  We don't tithe, we give from the heart.  The biblical tithe was always agricultural, NEVER money!

Church functions on grace and free will GIVING and we pay our own rent and utilities.  Giving and tithing are not the same....giving is a "heart" principle and tithing is an ordinance of the Mosaic law. 

All you said was how wonderful your pastor is and how everything was free.....then you turn around and say your rent is $6,000 a month.  Ever hear about free will and grace giving???  Since biblical tithing was never money, the purpose of the biblical tithe (which was always agricultural from the land of Canaan/Israel) was never meant for paying bills, but to sustain the tribe of Levi. 

Our tithes do sustain.

We give to our church because we KNOW our Pastor is using it to pay the church building's rent, and provide a place for saints to assemble. Also, our church is growing. House churches are a good stepping stone for Pastors who are new to the ministry & still working to get a real building for the church established, but I don't think it is practical to meet in a house indefinitely, as a church should see growth.

And our Pastor doesn't force us to tithe, we do it because it makes sense, and our church goes soulwinning weekly, and we give hundreds of people the Gospel & collectively  get hundreds of people saved. Call it giving if you wish, because we do give joyfully, but we all give a tithe(tenth). We give 10%.

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32 minutes ago, OLD fashioned preacher said:

??????????????????????????????????

Trying to understand what this has to do with anything???????????????

There's not a church, Kingdom Hall or any other "place of worship" within 100 miles of where I am that ever have more than 125 in the building AT ALL!

I was emphasizing how a house "church" isn't of sufficient size to seat the number of people that congregate on an average Sunday morning.

300 is a modest figure, at least from my experience, living in a major city. 

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15 hours ago, BabeinChrist said:

Do you have a website?

So you operate  out of your home?

That explains a lot.

Is your home big enough to assemble 300 people?

Do you go soulwinning?

No, we don't have a website.

What difference does it make where we "operate" or how many people are present  at a worship service?  Why are you so "into" numbers?  Whether there are five, ten, twenty, or whatever number are present is not important.
Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Soul winning should not be an "extra curricular" activity of the born again Christian.  It should be an everyday event in the life of the born again Christian.  We are to be about sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ daily.  We are not going to "win" everyone....we are to plant seeds and God will bring in the increase.
1 Corinthians 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Edited by LindaR
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11 hours ago, BabeinChrist said:

Our tithes do sustain.

We give to our church because we KNOW our Pastor is using it to pay the church building's rent, and provide a place for saints to assemble. Also, our church is growing. House churches are a good stepping stone for Pastors who are new to the ministry & still working to get a real building for the church established, but I don't think it is practical to meet in a house indefinitely, as a church should see growth.

And our Pastor doesn't force us to tithe, we do it because it makes sense, and our church goes soulwinning weekly, and we give hundreds of people the Gospel & collectively  get hundreds of people saved. Call it giving if you wish, because we do give joyfully, but we all give a tithe(tenth). We give 10%.

The Biblical agricultural tithes which God commanded for the children of Israel (farmers and herders) were to FEED the tribe of Levi during their time of service working in the tabernacle (not in the wilderness) and later the temple, when they were living in the land of Canaan/Israel. 

What do your man-made monetary tithes sustain?   Your pastor's lifestyle (which doesn't have to be lavish), paying the rent in the place/building where you meet to worship, extra-curricular activities, perhaps missions, etc.   This was NEVER the purpose of the Biblical agricultural tithe.   Tithes were EATEN....do you eat money?   Free will, sacrificial and grace giving works fine to sustain all that a church requires to meet their needs.  What you give as biblical tithes are not biblical tithes....but simply 10% of your gross income.  Biblical tithes were never monetary throughout the Bible and nobody has ever given Scriptural proof that a monetary tithe was EVER commanded by God.  It is a man-made doctrine.
Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Your opinions don't justify the compulsory monetary tithe, so you can stop bragging about how your man-made tithes are used.  I'm not impressed.  And as for house churches......that's a matter of opinion also.  The first century church met in houses DAILY to break bread and fellowship/worship.  Three thousand were saved on the day of Pentecost.  The upper room was somebody's house.

Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.   

Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls

Acts 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,   

Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.   

Acts 20:20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,

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The first century AD Church had 3,000 added to it in one day.  Funny thing, thirty-six years later, when the Epistles of John were written, there were still house churches. 

I don't recall a single admonition given by the Apostles in the Bible, for people to stop having house churches.  I may have missed it though.  I've only been reading and studying the Bible for thirty-eight years now.  If you know the verse that says people are discouraged from meeting in houses, please post it.  I'd really love to see it.

If our church grows to where it is too big to meet in a home, we may get a bigger building.  Or, we may emulate the pattern seen in the first century AD... we may go from house to house preaching the word and breaking bread. 

Why is a big building necessary?  Why take on such an overhead?  Big buildings mean that, not only does the pastor have his home electric bill to pay, now he must pay on another electric bill.  Not only do the church members have their own electric bill to pay, they now must help pay another electric bill. 

If they are using the electric in their homes anyway, why not meet in their homes while the electricity is being used? 

Then, there's the rent of the building.  People are paying their rent and mortgage payments already.  Why burden them with another rent payment?  It seems more economical to emulate the first century AD Christians and meet house to house and lay off the overhead costs of another building that they would only meet three times a week on average?

I thought about that $6,000/mo. cost of renting a place to worship in a strip mall.  I think how such an exorbitant amount could feed many hungry in the community.  Now, your pastor may feel justified in renting such a big place.  I could not.

Even if the Church I pastor grew to 3000, I could not justify paying for a big building.  I would instead train others to pastor and teach them to go house to house, breaking bread and sharing God's truth.

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17 hours ago, LindaR said:

No, we don't have a website.

What difference does it make where we "operate" or how many people are present  at a worship service?  Why are you so "into" numbers?  Whether there are five, ten, twenty, or whatever number are present is not important.
Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Soul winning should not be an "extra curricula" activity of the born again Christian.  It should be an everyday event in the life of the born again Christian.  We are to be about sharing the Gospel of Jesus Christ daily.  We are not going to "win" everyone....we are to plant seeds and God will bring in the increase.
1 Corinthians 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

It really isn't about the numbers as much as the fact that a good, biblically sound, soulwinning church WILL be blessed by God , and WILL grow, even if it is slowly at first.

I agree that it is God that gives the increase. But the harvest is plenty and the labourers few.  Of course we are to preach the Gospel to every creature. That's a given.

That is why we go soulwinning. It isn't some extracurricular activity, it is our COMMAND from our high priest, Jesus Christ.

Because every 3 seconds, someone dies and goes to Hell.

Are you comfortable with that? Not me. We ought to have compassion for the unsaved, and to love the lost and WANT them to be saved.

With all the IFB churches in America, if we ALL went soulwinning just once a week, we would knock the doors of every house in America, we would have a revival that would shake the ends of the earth.

I'm sick & tired of going soulwinning & the only other people besides us out knocking doors are the Jehovah's False Witnesses or the Mormons!

WHERE are all the IFBs? Or ANY Baptists? There are exponentially more of us than the JW or Mormons..

Look, I really don't care if I see eye to eye with every miniscule issue that isn't major doctrine with all my brethren. Who cares if we disagree on things like Zionism, tithes, timing of the rapture or bible prophecy....if someone is saved, and they know they can't lose it, they know that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ ONLY, and believe the King James Holy Bible is the Word of God & they desire to see the lost get saved  then I count them my brethren & say let's not forsake our first work, which is going door to door with Bible in hand & tear in the eye & give the Gospel of Jesus Christ to every creature.

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O where are the reapers that garner in
The sheaves of the good from the fields of sin?
With sickles of truth must the work be done,
And no one may rest till the harvest home.

Refrain

Where are the reapers? O who will come
And share in the glory of the harvest home?
O who will help us to garner in
The sheaves of good from the fields of sin?

Go out in the byways and search them all;
The wheat may be there but the weeds are tall;
Then search in the highway, and pass none by;
But gather them all for the home on high.

Refrain

The fields are all ripening, and far and wide
The world now is waiting the harvest tide:
But reapers are few, and the work is great,
And much will be lost should the harvest wait.

Refrain

So come with your sickles, ye sons of men,
And gather together the golden grain;
Toil on till the Lord of the harvest come,
Then share ye His joy in the harvest home.

Refrain

 

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